"Wars never accomplishes anything . . . "

[Lux_Luminous]

\"Wars never accomplishes anything . . . \"

Other than end Fascism, Communism and slavery -
what have wars ever accomplished?

This reminds me of the scene in the Monty Python Movie
"Life of Brian" when the zealots ask what the Romans have
done for them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


"Lux" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tsg68]

Re: \"Wars never accomplishes anything . . . \"

Deposed brutal dictators and their regimes ,restored democratically elected officials, freed countries from Colonial rule, kept oppressive religious zealots at bay, stopped greedy warlords from ravaging politically unstable environments, affected the will of the people. There's likely more I can think of, but I'm pooped and need to go to bed soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Tomas]

Re: Wars never accomplishes anything . . .

"Wars never accomplishes anything . . . "

Be sure to tell that to the city fathers of Carthage next time you see 'em ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Empath]

Re: \"Wars never accomplishes anything . . . \"

[ QUOTE ]
tsg68 said:
Deposed brutal dictators and their regimes ,restored democratically elected officials, freed countries from Colonial rule, kept oppressive religious zealots at bay, stopped greedy warlords from ravaging politically unstable environments, affected the will of the people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, it has also:
"Installed brutal dictators and their regimes ,toppled democratically elected officials, enforced oppressive religious zealots, enabled greedy warlords to ravage politically unstable environments, overridden the will of the people".

While war may be praised by some as the sorce of deliverance, it has also been the means of enslavement. War is not the glorious thing it's painted to be. Which is, I guess, reason for maintaining a defense that is so awesome, none would dare attack. But praise war as the "god of deliverance"? Uh Uh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

 

[DieselDave]

Re:

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said: While war may be praised by some as the sorce of deliverance, it has also been the means of enslavement. War is not the glorious thing it's painted to be. Which is, I guess, reason for maintaining a defense that is so awesome, none would dare attack. But praise war as the "god of deliverance"? Uh Uh

[/ QUOTE ]

Right on my good brother.

 

[reddwarf]

Re:

Despise not war,but the current human conditions and moral ambiguity that make them so prevelant.Evil is defeatable,and the human condition is fixable,there is always hope if there is faith in each other and god.Stepping away from either will leave our children a bleak future,its everyones right and responsibility to make the world a better place.There is good and evil,to sit on the sidelines is to have already chosen a side.Three "wars" and two children force me to believe this.

 

[Lux_Luminous]

Re:

It's been awhile but I seem to remember

"Carthago Delende Est"

Hmmmm - seems to ring a bell!

Wars accomplish quite a bit - of course, it's not always
a positive result. My basic point is that some people have
a simplistic and myopic view of world events (and History).

Some people refuse to "work and play well with others" and
must be dealt with accordingly. Sweet reason has it's limits!


"Lux" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[reddwarf]

Re:

Well said,Lux,the mere thought of my children engaging in a conflict/exercise /outing or any of the other feel-good terms applied to destruction make me very ill.The very same thoughts and emotions being experienced by countless parents,siblings,etc.,right now.

 

[ikendu]

Re:

DieselDave said: Right on my good brother.

Dave and I don't often agree on issues...but this is one of those times.

We DO need a strong defense; simply no doubt about that.

It's too bad that has to be that way, but until human nature changes (not likely any time soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), we will continue to need that really strong defense.

Apparently there is an ever ready supply of Hitlers ready to use fear to enslave their populations so as to harness their people in an attempt to satisfy a lust for personal power.

What it means for us...is that we must have well educated, highly intelligent AND highly principled leaders that will not misuse our strong military.

There's that old saying: "To a man with only a hammer, every problem look's like a nail".

 

[highlandsun]

Re:

We need well-educated *everyone*, not just leaders... Unfortunately, this country is set up so that only the well-off get the best educations.

 

[ikendu]

Re:

highlandsun said: We need well-educated *everyone*, not just leaders...

It's true. A well educated population is a fundamental foundation for a democracy. That's why education is a financial responsibility for everyone...not just people with school age children. Everyone benefits highly when the general population is well educated...business benefits, the military benefits; it is good all the way around.

 

[pedalinbob]

Re:

i disagree that this country is set up so only the "well off" get the "best" educations.

if you want to give your child or yourself a good education, YOU need to buck up and take charge.

in a poor performing school system? move into a better one, or work to change the one you are in.
cant get into or afford an ivy league school?
there are grants, loans, and many fine teachers and schools out there. my old chem instructor at our community college is a PhD from Harvard.
there is NO excuse for a poor education.


how about a good dose of ambition?

it is time for people to take responsibility for their children and themselves, even if they have to educate them at home, on their own time, and stop making excuses: "waah, waah, only the rich can get a good education..."

what about the poor, do they have choice? yes, they DO have a choice: they can choose to educate themselves, choose to get a better job, choose to move to a better school system, CHOOSE take responsibility for their children...
in a nutshell: they can take responsibiity for their lives.

ultimately, we CHOOSE the education we/our children recieve.

rant over.

Bob

 

[hokiefritz]

Re:

Bob is right. Parents are responsible for their children's education. Society's best interest is served by making and encouraging responsible parents. While some schools in depressed/poor ares are bleak, if more parents were involved and looking out for their child's education it would be different. It seems a bit off topic from war but it's not really that far of a stretch.

 

[highlandsun]

Re:

Parents have a limited degree of choice. Children have none; if their parents don't make it a priority, the kids are SOL.

Parents can only move to a better school system if they can afford to make the move. Frequently poor families will be unwelcome in the neighborhoods with the better schools, because their presence "drags down the property values."

In today's economy, even successful parents don't have many options in moving - if you have a job you're lucky; trying to find a second one after a move? Not likely.

The fact that public schools are funded mainly from property tax means that school systems will only be well-supported in communities consisting mainly of home-owning families with school-age children. If you're unfortunate enough to live in a poor area with mostly renters, you lose, and you have no mechanism for improving things in your area because few of the members of your community have any property tax dollars to vote with.

You're right in general - we have choices. But also in general, if you're a minority voice in this majority-rule system, you are screwed. If you're the only person in your community that cares about schooling, your only choice is to move, and for some people that's no choice at all.

People do need to take responsibility for their children and themselves, absolutely. You and I know that, fine. How are you going to get that message across to the vast population that doesn't understand, doesn't care?

 

[JOshooter]

Re:

Some one on this board has a sig line to the effect of "Violence never solves anything except for every conflict we've been in."

 

[ewick]

Re:

Yes they do.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re:

  CHILD OF CLAY

By Jimmie Rodgers

Into the darkness he was sent by parents'
Who were ignorant hm, hm
Tied down to his mother's strings
Unable to be anything hm, hm
Puzzled by the things he hears
The father thinking work comes first
Ain't got the time to quench a thirst
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Once he was a child, a beautiful child
A child of clay shaped and molded
Into what he is today
But who is to blame for this child of clay
Going out into the street at night
The answers he may meet hm hm
With sick and twisted minds
He shares the searching questions
His heart bears hm hm
And from the dregs
The answers find their way into his supple mind
In time the planted seeds will grow
Into a twisted vine below
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
And now his aimless days begin
To drift into sordid sin hm, hm
And soon his dislike turns to hate
As the stamp of life seals his fate hm, hm
and so the night conceals his name
And the days sleep off his shame
Deprived of love and wrought by fear
A feeling that the end is near
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
No, no, no, no, no, no, no..  

 

[brightnorm]

Re:

[ QUOTE ]
TedtheLed said:

  CHILD OF CLAY

By Jimmie Rodgers

Into the darkness he was sent by parents'
Who were ignorant hm, hm
Tied down to his mother's strings
Unable to be anything hm, hm
Puzzled by the things he hears
The father thinking work comes first
Ain't got the time to quench a thirst
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Once he was a child, a beautiful child
A child of clay shaped and molded
Into what he is today
But who is to blame for this child of clay
Going out into the street at night
The answers he may meet hm hm
With sick and twisted minds
He shares the searching questions
His heart bears hm hm
And from the dregs
The answers find their way into his supple mind
In time the planted seeds will grow
Into a twisted vine below
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
And now his aimless days begin
To drift into sordid sin hm, hm
And soon his dislike turns to hate
As the stamp of life seals his fate hm, hm
and so the night conceals his name
And the days sleep off his shame
Deprived of love and wrought by fear
A feeling that the end is near
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
No, no, no, no, no, no, no..  



[/ QUOTE ]\

Powerful stuff. Who is Jimmie Rodgers?

Brightnorm

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re:

brightnorm, thanks for asking, here's some info I found;

from:

http://www.tsimon.com/rodgers.htm

"There have been other artists through the years who have had similar names and they are sometimes confused with this Jimmie Rodgers. One is Jimmie Rodgers (1897-1933), real name James Charles Rodgers, who is regarded as the first important country music star. This Jimmie Rodgers was known as The Singing Brakeman and is identified with yodelling and songs such as Muleskinner Blues, T for Texas, and Blue Yodel No. 9. Another musician, Jimmy Rogers (born in 1924 -- note the spelling) was a blues singer who worked mostly in Chicago. And then there is the Jimmie Rodgers that is the subject of this article, who was born James Frederick Rodgers in Camas, Washington in 1933. Although there is no relationship of any kind between any of the three, it is possible that the younger Jimmie Rodgers was named for the older one as that was a popular name given to baby boys in the early 1930's. "

...eerily, Jimmie F. Rodgers was born in the same year Jimmie C. Rodgers died in 1933...

His albums:

http://www.geocities.com/lpjim54/JRodgers.html

more;

http://home.wanadoo.nl/rock_and_roll/jimmy.htm ...