Why the predominance of tailswitch, 123/18650 designs?

[Tirodani]

Hi folks. I'm new here, though I've been lurking for a while. I've been thinking about how a lot of folks (myself included) seem to use flashlights, and how it seems that there aren't a lot of manufacturers making state of the art flashlights engineered for people like me.

I know that tailswitch lights sized for 123-diameter batteries are ideal as weaponlights. Tailswitches, however, are inconvenient for those who use a flashlight in a hammer grip (including myself and 99% of the general population, even those of us who appreciate a quality instrument!) Twisty switches are obviously a compromise. Why aren't more manufacturers using side-clickies? Maglite and Streamlight, do, of course, but they don't exactly represent the cream of modern technology.

Also, because these predominant tailswitch/123 designs have narrow bodies, they compromise runtime. A C Maglite body is narrower than the head of a TK11 or CL1H, so fatter cells could be used in Fenix or Dereelights without much affecting pocket carry. A TK11-sized head on a shortened Mag body using C-sized Li-Ions would be close to my ideal flashlight. Am I the only one? Is there a practical reason why 'tactical' designs are so popular outside of LE?

As I said, I'm new, but I hope these are reasonable questions. Be gentle.

 

[flash_bang]

I think it might be because the way a tailcap twistie is manufactured is easier to do so, rather than what mag does.

cheers!

 

[Marduke]

Tailcap switches are cheaper to make, allows the light to be smaller, more water resistant, and are easier to service and replace.

Just because the switch is in the tail does not mean you have to hold and use the light in a "tactical" grip. If you need more than a quick burst of light, just change your hold on the body to whatever you desire.

 

[flash_bang]

oh, I thought the tailcap design was mainly based on the hammer grip, but idunno what the underhand Mag type grip is called.

 

[jzmtl]

oh, I thought the tailcap design was mainly based on the hammer grip, but idunno what the underhand Mag type grip is called.

Underhand is hammer grip, the one with your thumb on tailcap is ice pick grip.

 

[Tirodani]

Tailcap switches are cheaper to make, allows the light to be smaller, more water resistant, and are easier to service and replace.

Just because the switch is in the tail does not mean you have to hold and use the light in a "tactical" grip. If you need more than a quick burst of light, just change your hold on the body to whatever you desire.

Hm, I guess I hadn't considered a difference in manufacturing costs. I believe it, though I'd certainly pay a few extra bucks for a switch in the right place. And Mags are more than waterproof enough for most folks, I think.

You're right, of course, about it being fairly simple to change grips. So too could an LEO turn on their weapon light with a twisty switch, and then change grips. But the right tool for the right job will work better.

 

[deranged_coder]

I know that tailswitch lights sized for 123-diameter batteries are ideal as weaponlights. Tailswitches, however, are inconvenient for those who use a flashlight in a hammer grip (including myself and 99% of the general population, even those of us who appreciate a quality instrument!) Twisty switches are obviously a compromise. Why aren't more manufacturers using side-clickies? Maglite and Streamlight, do, of course, but they don't exactly represent the cream of modern technology.

Most anyone I have given a flashlight with a tailcap switch to either adapt quickly and use it in an ice pick grip or cigar grip or switch it on and then change their grip to a hammer grip.

I think side-click switches would be much more difficult to service or replace compared to tailcap switching. Right now, if the tailcap switch on my my flashlight failed, they can just send me a replacement (happened once to a SureFire Z57 clicky tailcap switch) instead of me having to send the light in for them to fix.

And if you want a nice side-click light, look into the L.R.I. Proton and Proton PRO.

Also, because these predominant tailswitch/123 designs have narrow bodies, they compromise runtime. A C Maglite body is narrower than the head of a TK11 or CL1H, so fatter cells could be used in Fenix or Dereelights without much affecting pocket carry. A TK11-sized head on a shortened Mag body using C-sized Li-Ions would be close to my ideal flashlight. Am I the only one? Is there a practical reason why 'tactical' designs are so popular outside of LE?

Really depends on how one wants to carry their light and what they are comfortable with. Personally, for pocket carry the most I can deal with is a 2xCR123 light and that tends to be already difficult to manage. Normally what I EDC in a pocket is a 1xAA or 1xCR123 powered light. I cannot imagine carrying a C-cell powered light in my pockets. Of course, that is just my own personal opinion based on what I am comfortably carrying. Others might be quite fine with carrying a C-cell (or even a D-cell) powered light in their pockets without a problem.

IMHO tactical designs are popular outside of LE only to the flashaholic who wants the brightest possible light that can still be carried in a pocket. Most people would be quite satisfied with a commonly available MagLite solitaire or mini Maglite for their flashlight needs and would not want to pay for the cost of a 'tactical' light.

You're right, of course, about it being fairly simple to change grips. So too could an LEO turn on their weapon light with a twisty switch, and then change grips.

Ah, but if the LEO in question is holding a weapon in their other hand and is using their flashlight to light up a suspect, clear a room, etc., having to deal with changing grips might be slightly problematic.

 

[FlashInThePan]

Companies usually claim that a tailcap activation is best for "tactical" use, since it allows you to turn on the light in the shortest possible time. If you grab a cylindrical light whose button is on the side, you may have to rotate the light a bit before you find the "on" switch. In contrast, with tailcap activation, you just cover the back of the flashlight with your thumb and voila - the light's on.

As for why this filters down into non-LEO use, I'd guess that it's mostly due to cost. Once a company has designed and machined their flashlights, they want to get as much use out of the design as possible. Since LEOs usually prefer the tailcap activation, and the general public doesn't have a preference, tailcap activation wins out.

Pelican actually makes a flashlight - the Pelican 7060 - with both a side switch *and* a tailcap switch. The best of both worlds!

- FITP

 

[Tirodani]

Most anyone I have given a flashlight with a tailcap switch to either adapt quickly and use it in an ice pick grip or cigar grip or switch it on and then change their grip to a hammer grip.

I think side-click switches would be much more difficult to service or replace compared to tailcap switching. Right now, if the tailcap switch on my my flashlight failed, they can just send me a replacement (happened once to a SureFire Z57 clicky tailcap switch) instead of me having to send the light in for them to fix.

And if you want a nice side-click light, look into the L.R.I. Proton and Proton PRO.

Firstly, thanks for your detailed and helpful responses. I guess the service issue is a good point, in that tailcap switch lights are essentially modular. I'm sure I could adapt to a tailswitch. I'll address that below.

The Proton Pro looks like a great design. It's pretty expensive for the output, though, compared to today's competition. I'd get one if it was cheaper.

Personally, for pocket carry the most I can deal with is a 2xCR123 light and that tends to be already difficult to manage. Normally what I EDC in a pocket is a 1xAA or 1xCR123 powered light. I cannot imagine carrying a C-cell powered light in my pockets.

If you can carry a 2x123 light with a 34mm head and 25mm barrel, then to me, moving up to a 31mm barrel would make little difference. Maybe it would to you, and that's OK.

Ah, but if the LEO in question is holding a weapon in their other hand and is using their flashlight to light up a suspect, clear a room, etc., having to deal with changing grips might be slightly problematic.

I think you may have made my point for me. Switching grips is less efficient/convenient/secure, whatever the other tasks at hand may be.

 

[Marduke]

The Proton Pro looks like a great design. It's pretty expensive for the output, though, compared to today's competition. I'd get one if it was cheaper.

Depends where you look. CFR Lights sells it for far below MSRP. Currently they have it for $42.95 shipped.

 

[deranged_coder]

I think you may have made my point for me. Switching grips is less efficient/convenient/secure, whatever the other tasks at hand may be.

True, but the level of inconvenience would vary. For the person simply taking a walk outside, the inconvenience would be relatively minor and easier to deal with. For the LEO trying to clear a room or light up a suspect, the inconvenience would probably be much greater.

 

[Guy's Dropper]

The lights that come to mind when you mention side switch are are the Pelican 7060 and 8060, both great lights. They also have tail switches.

For medium-large to large size lights, I still prefer side switches. Very few of my lights have them, but I still like them just slightly more than tail switches. On anything smaller than medium-large, I prefer a tactical tail switch or piston drive, because side switches on smaller lights tend to be uncomfortable.

 

[cernobila]

.....about the position of the switch......try this yourself, pick up a side switch light and turn it on quickly without looking at it, perhaps in the dark......then do the same with a rear/tail switch light......I have done this myself and the rear switch won everytime.

 

[kramer5150]

I am not in LE, but I prefer the small/compact size of a tailcap mounted switch, twisty switches being the most compact. Most side-switches add an extra cell-length (approx) to the tube.

x2 what cernobila said.

 

[Tirodani]

.....about the position of the switch......try this yourself, pick up a side switch light and turn it on quickly without looking at it, perhaps in the dark......then do the same with a rear/tail switch light......I have done this myself and the rear switch won everytime.

That's what a flat side is for!

Most side-switches add an extra cell-length (approx) to the tube.

Aha! I did not know this. Does this account for a significant amount of length in the Maglite? I thought it was from the spare bulb storage.

If this is the case, then using a tailswitch does indeed seem more practical for a pocket light.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Companies usually claim that a tailcap activation is best for "tactical" use, since it allows you to turn on the light in the shortest possible time. If you grab a cylindrical light whose button is on the side, you may have to rotate the light a bit before you find the "on" switch. In contrast, with tailcap activation, you just cover the back of the flashlight with your thumb and voila - the light's on.

The whole discussion of which is quicker to activate has to take into account the presupposition of what position the light will be in when one grabs it. Is it on a table? Is it already in one's hand, and, if so, how is one holding it? For drawing from a holster, there's no doubt a tail cap clickie is cumbersome. I side switch will be ready to activate immediately with either the thumb or index finger. To activate a tail switch after drawing from a holster, one would have to use the opposite hand to either activate the switch or turn the flashlight around in ones hand. Which type of switch is quicker depends on how one will pick it up. As with a motorcycle accident, tell me what kind of accident you will have, and I'l tell you what type of protective gear you'll find most effective.

 

[kramer5150]

That's what a flat side is for!



Aha! I did not know this. Does this account for a significant amount of length in the Maglite? I thought it was from the spare bulb storage.

If this is the case, then using a tailswitch does indeed seem more practical for a pocket light.

yes... at least for the 4D. Its a pretty BIG switch module inside there, but yes there is also some added length in the tail cap to house the spare bulb. The mag-D tailcap could be made really flat if it weren't asked to house the spare PR lamp.

 

[deranged_coder]

For drawing from a holster, there's no doubt a tail cap clickie is cumbersome. I side switch will be ready to activate immediately with either the thumb or index finger. To activate a tail switch after drawing from a holster, one would have to use the opposite hand to either activate the switch or turn the flashlight around in ones hand.

Huh? I have carried a tailcap activated light in a belt holster and I have had no issues with needing to use the opposite hand to activate the switch or to turn the flashlight around. If you carry the light in a holster with the bezel down then I think it is actually quite natural to activate the light using the tailcap because your thumb will already be on the tailcap when you pull the light out.

 

[cernobila]

That's what a flat side is for!

I am sorry but what flat side?

 

[cernobila]

AHA, just thought of another point for consideration........

I prefer to use my lights near my head, line of sight style, much easier to aim the beam and don't get distinct shadows......just like shooting a gun, line of sight (rear switch) compared to shooting from the hip. (side switch).............when you want hands free light, it goes on somewhere near your head and not around your hips.