Working M@glight Torch: What is Your Best?

[My3kidsfather]

I need a good, tough, durable incan for work, enabling us to discern movement against background for up to 100-150 yards or more. From past discussions and reading incan-mod threads M@glite conversions seem to be a successful and inexpensive way to meet this challenge. My intent is to find a solution, test it at work, then begin building these for the guys at work who desire this kind of tool.

These are suggested parameters:

1. Restricted to using inexpensive M@g bodies, 3C or 4C M@glite bodies (no "D's" please.)
2. Reasonable longevity of bulb compatible with AW's IMR or similar batteries desired (15 hrs or better and no flashing)
3. powered with 3 18650's/26650's sized IMR type or like rechargeable batteries (providing voltage up in the 10-11v. area)
4. relatively inexpensive parts trump lumen-gains with expensive parts.
5. parts easy to obtain.
6. 40 minutes or better runtimes appreciated.

Do you have a recipe for a torch that you built or bought that would be relatively inexpensive (and easy?) for us to build with parts available today? Sure would appreciate your input.

 

[lctorana]

None of my Mag mods fit the above criteria.

 

[R@ndom]

In a slightly bored mag 3c insert 3 imr 26500's add metal reflector, boro lense, bi-pin adaptor and a welch allen 1185.

If boring isn't your style try 3 18650's in a 4c. You'll need a length of pvc tubing if this is desired.

You can get more throw if you use a fm throwmaster head. That'll also eliminate you need for a lense and reflector.

 

[Mjolnir]

If price is the only issue than you shouldn't rule out D cells. You can get a 3D maglite for under $17, while a 3C maglite is a little more than a dollar less at $15.35.

I think some type of Triple LED mod might work better in this application, since Incan mods can't really get 40 minutes of runtime, at least with the requirements you described.

Perhaps an ROP with 2 Lithium Ion D cells would work, but protected D cells are 22 dollars each, and only available from Kaidomain (which will take a while to ship). This would also only be 7.2 volts, but an ROP should be bright enough (i'm not sure why you are restricting yourself to 3 cell mods).
If you used a 4D maglite with 6 Sub C nimh cells you could probably make an ROP with over 40 minutes, but this also won't be in the 10-11V range. A 4D mag can be bought for under 18 dollars, so it isn't all that more expensive than a C model.

 

[R@ndom]

Mayby he prefers the skinnyness of the c-mags:thinking:

 

[GreyShark]

You already know my favorite configuration and parts lists.

The parts for alternatives would all pretty much be the same but you could use a 1274 or 1164 bulb in a 3C Mag host powered by 2x 65mm long cells, be they 26mm or 18mm wide. The 1274 would have a little longer runtime, the 1164 would have less runtime but longer bulb life. You'd probably have to stretch the tailspring a little or else coil your own from some heavy copper wire. Either way it's not hard.

I'm pretty sure that 3x IMR 26500's will blow an 1185 unless you do something to drop the voltage. The 1185 will work on 3x protected 18650's because of the greater resistance internally and in the protection circuit.

You could build a 1274 or 1164 light in a 2C host with IMR 26500's and the runtime would probably be between 30 and 40 minutes. Unless you're looking for short overall length I wouldn't bother with this battery though, 26650/26700 batteries can handle high amp draw and have almost 50% more capacity without any fitting issues.

 

[My3kidsfather]

Mjolnir- Using C size is the choice we have made. Seems to fit better in the hand. Really to bad about the IMR batteries not fitting easily in C size tubes.. AW must be frustrated about that. Still there is a solution in sanding and boring. Otherwise the IMR batteries are pretty impressive in performance I would say. thanks for the "D" suggestions.

If price is the only issue than you shouldn't rule out D cells. You can get a 3D maglite for under $17, while a 3C maglite is a little more than a dollar less at $15.35.

I think some type of Triple LED mod might work better in this application, since Incan mods can't really get 40 minutes of runtime, at least with the requirements you described.

Perhaps an ROP with 2 Lithium Ion D cells would work, but protected D cells are 22 dollars each, and only available from Kaidomain (which will take a while to ship). This would also only be 7.2 volts, but an ROP should be bright enough (i'm not sure why you are restricting yourself to 3 cell mods).
If you used a 4D maglite with 6 Sub C nimh cells you could probably make an ROP with over 40 minutes, but this also won't be in the 10-11V range. A 4D mag can be bought for under 18 dollars, so it isn't all that more expensive than a C model.

 

[My3kidsfather]

I want one of FM's TM heads for my own use. For the work-use torch we need a little better economy for the light to sell at work. I have read that the WA 1185 may flash with fresh IMR batteries but that the WA 1166 can absorb the extra voltage. What is your experience with this? And what charger do you like for your C sizes?

In a slightly bored mag 3c insert 3 imr 26500's add metal reflector, boro lense, bi-pin adaptor and a welch allen 1185.

If boring isn't your style try 3 18650's in a 4c. You'll need a length of pvc tubing if this is desired.

You can get more throw if you use a fm throwmaster head. That'll also eliminate you need for a lense and reflector.

 

[My3kidsfather]

With your direction am beginning to recognize different conditions and the challenges in deciding what will work for this work torch. If we could manage to get three IMR 26650's into a M*g C tube then we could start with a WA1166 bulb. Otherwise it seems to be a slam dunk with 3x18650's and a WA1185, a boro lense, bipin adaptor, new metal reflector in a 4C M*g as you have suggested works for you.

I wonder if the advantages of AW's IMR system are to big to easily pass over especially since we are not commited to any battery systems (except for already owning a WF139 charger related to older 18650's). The IMR's higher amperage can be used to drive some more serious bulbs. Slightly higher voltage (which does not seem to be an advantage in itself, you just have to pick bulbs that can deal with it). Faster recharging is a bonus too.

Do you agree it seems to be worth the effort to pursue the IMR's until they prove to much work to get in tubes without too much fuss?

Using a 2C tube is an option. You have pointed out previously that greater lumens are available at 3x voltages for little mor than another battery in costs. does this sound right?

You already know my favorite configuration and parts lists.

The parts for alternatives would all pretty much be the same but you could use a 1274 or 1164 bulb in a 3C Mag host powered by 2x 65mm long cells, be they 26mm or 18mm wide. The 1274 would have a little longer runtime, the 1164 would have less runtime but longer bulb life. You'd probably have to stretch the tailspring a little or else coil your own from some heavy copper wire. Either way it's not hard.

I'm pretty sure that 3x IMR 26500's will blow an 1185 unless you do something to drop the voltage. The 1185 will work on 3x protected 18650's because of the greater resistance internally and in the protection circuit.

You could build a 1274 or 1164 light in a 2C host with IMR 26500's and the runtime would probably be between 30 and 40 minutes. Unless you're looking for short overall length I wouldn't bother with this battery though, 26650/26700 batteries can handle high amp draw and have almost 50% more capacity without any fitting issues.

 

[KiwiMark]

My favourite normal use (as opposed to show off use) torch is my 2D ROP Low. The 3854-L bulb runs happily from any 2 Li-ion cells and draws ~2A. My 2D runs from 2 protected D cells (from KD) and will give me a run time around 2 hours. The same bulb could easily run from 2 26500 cells (over 1 hour run time) or 2 x 18650 cells (over 1 hour from protected 18650) in a 2C or 3C Maglite (3C with 2 x 18650 would need a spacer). I would recommend going with the protected 18650 cells for this application as I don't think IMR cells are needed at 2A draw.

I like the output and the colour of the 3854-L bulb and it is unlikely to flash as it is OK to 9.6V: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-LROP.jpg
2 fresh Li-ion cells are only going to be 8.4V and will reduce from there. Because it is a 6V bulb it is still over-driven even from almost flat Li-ion cells - this leads to good colour with none of that sickly orange you get from Mag bulbs from half flat alkaline cells.

What you would need:
3C Maglite
Tubing and a spacer
3854-L Bulb
2 x 18650 Protected Li-ion cells
Charger for 18650 cells
Aluminium reflector
UCL Lens

That wouldn't be overly expensive.

 

[GreyShark]

I wonder if the advantages of AW's IMR system are to big to easily pass over especially since we are not commited to any battery systems (except for already owning a WF139 charger related to older 18650's). The IMR's higher amperage can be used to drive some more serious bulbs. Slightly higher voltage (which does not seem to be an advantage in itself, you just have to pick bulbs that can deal with it). Faster recharging is a bonus too.

A protected 18650 can handle over 4 amps of draw, which is lot. An IMR 18650 can handle something like 16 amps and AW's 26500 can do 20 amps. My preferred C type cell is rated to handle a 45 amp draw. A123's can handle something like 70 amps. You will melt your stock Mag switch long before you use the full potential of any of those batteries except the protected 18650. I'd love to build a Mag that does 10,000 lumens but the draw at those levels of output will slaughter the runtime, you'll need a special high amp switch, the beam can catch stuff on fire accidentally, all kinds of considerations.

Do you agree it seems to be worth the effort to pursue the IMR's until they prove to much work to get in tubes without too much fuss?

It's all up to you. I prefer safe chemistry cells because the don't have a protection circuit to go out and they're, well, inherently safer. I'm just saying that while I am a fan of his batteries AW isn't the only game in town and for certain applications there are alternatives I feel are better. If you want the shortest possible light for a given voltage than AW's 26500's are the hot ticket.

Using a 2C tube is an option. You have pointed out previously that greater lumens are available at 3x voltages for little mor than another battery in costs. does this sound right?

You'll get more runtime for a given output when using a 3 cell light than when using a 2 cell light. Or you can get a brighter 3 cell light for the same draw as a two cell light. I guess it comes down to volts times amps equals wattage. To achieve the same wattage a two cell light has to burn up more amps than a 3 cell light. The trick in building a custom flashlight is that most of the hosts are designed to stack batteries in series so it's easy to achieve higher voltages by just adding another battery but you're stuck with your mah rating. All else being equal I'd opt for a longer 3 cell light in order to get a longer runtime.

 

[gswitter]

As much as I love my 1185's, if you're starting from scratch, I'd recommend sticking with a two cell set-up. There's a handful of bulbs that will give you good output at 3.5-4.0A, and with the latest high capacity 18650s, you should get in the neighborhood of 40 minutes on a charge. And more importantly, you don't have to go the hobby charger route to charge all the cells at once.

Tight budget:

• Mag 2C (Home Depot)
• glass lens (KD)
• metal reflector (KD)
• bi-pin socket (KD)
• WA 01111 (Litho123)
• 2x AW 2600mAh 18650's (AW)
• Ultrafire WF-139 charger (AW)

Do it right:

• Mag 2C (Home Depot)
• Borofloat lens (Lighthound)
• metal reflector (FM)
• bi-pin socket (FM) -or multi-level soft-start switch (AW)
• WA 01111 (Litho123)
• 2x AW 2600mAh 18650's (AW)
• Pila IBC charger (group buy in the MP)

 

[My3kidsfather]

Does anyone know what size of M*g reflector we should order from KD? He lists two sizes:

KD M*g OP reflector V3.1 15mm Opening and
KD M*g OP reflector V3.1 8.3mm Opening

 

[My3kidsfather]

KiwiMark-

We have decided to do the CPF thing and build as many as possible of your suggestions. We have 2C, 3C, and 4C M*gs here itching to show us "Screaming White Incan Goodness" as member GreyShark related recently. (I just love that quote.. lol). I had not heard of the 3854-L bulb before with two Li ions. Sounds good to me. where do you like to get them?

My favourite normal use (as opposed to show off use) torch is my 2D ROP Low. The 3854-L bulb runs happily from any 2 Li-ion cells and draws ~2A. My 2D runs from 2 protected D cells (from KD) and will give me a run time around 2 hours. The same bulb could easily run from 2 26500 cells (over 1 hour run time) or 2 x 18650 cells (over 1 hour from protected 18650) in a 2C or 3C Maglite (3C with 2 x 18650 would need a spacer). I would recommend going with the protected 18650 cells for this application as I don't think IMR cells are needed at 2A draw.

I like the output and the colour of the 3854-L bulb and it is unlikely to flash as it is OK to 9.6V: http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-LROP.jpg
2 fresh Li-ion cells are only going to be 8.4V and will reduce from there. Because it is a 6V bulb it is still over-driven even from almost flat Li-ion cells - this leads to good colour with none of that sickly orange you get from Mag bulbs from half flat alkaline cells.

What you would need:
3C Maglite
Tubing and a spacer
3854-L Bulb
2 x 18650 Protected Li-ion cells
Charger for 18650 cells
Aluminium reflector
UCL Lens

That wouldn't be overly expensive.

 

[My3kidsfather]

GreyShark-

It seems to me that building a ever brighter light is like building up your car. Every mod stresses something else. Add a turbo to your car and you will need to get a stronger transmission, rearend, driveshaft, etc. Even the switch can't handle it. Ok i'm in.

A protected 18650 can handle over 4 amps of draw, which is lot. An IMR 18650 can handle something like 16 amps and AW's 26500 can do 20 amps. My preferred C type cell is rated to handle a 45 amp draw. A123's can handle something like 70 amps. You will melt your stock Mag switch long before you use the full potential of any of those batteries except the protected 18650. I'd love to build a Mag that does 10,000 lumens but the draw at those levels of output will slaughter the runtime, you'll need a special high amp switch, the beam can catch stuff on fire accidentally, all kinds of considerations.



It's all up to you. I prefer safe chemistry cells because the don't have a protection circuit to go out and they're, well, inherently safer. I'm just saying that while I am a fan of his batteries AW isn't the only game in town and for certain applications there are alternatives I feel are better. If you want the shortest possible light for a given voltage than AW's 26500's are the hot ticket.



You'll get more runtime for a given output when using a 3 cell light than when using a 2 cell light. Or you can get a brighter 3 cell light for the same draw as a two cell light. I guess it comes down to volts times amps equals wattage. To achieve the same wattage a two cell light has to burn up more amps than a 3 cell light. The trick in building a custom flashlight is that most of the hosts are designed to stack batteries in series so it's easy to achieve higher voltages by just adding another battery but you're stuck with your mah rating. All else being equal I'd opt for a longer 3 cell light in order to get a longer runtime.

 

[My3kidsfather]

gswitter-

I am dreading the recharging, recharging, recharging... 40 minutes is our target minimum too. Thanks for your recipe- will build asap. And you gave us a choice in quality. Usually choose the better for obvious reasons. FM is out of reflectors, offering his 2.5" throwing head now. Sigh, must wait for funding for more expensive parts.

As much as I love my 1185's, if you're starting from scratch, I'd recommend sticking with a two cell set-up. There's a handful of bulbs that will give you good output at 3.5-4.0A, and with the latest high capacity 18650s, you should get in the neighborhood of 40 minutes on a charge. And more importantly, you don't have to go the hobby charger route to charge all the cells at once.

Tight budget:

• Mag 2C (Home Depot)
• glass lens (KD)
• metal reflector (KD)
• bi-pin socket (KD)
• WA 01111 (Litho123)
• 2x AW 2600mAh 18650's (AW)
• Ultrafire WF-139 charger (AW)

Do it right:

• Mag 2C (Home Depot)
• Borofloat lens (Lighthound)
• metal reflector (FM)
• bi-pin socket (FM) -or multi-level soft-start switch (AW)
• WA 01111 (Litho123)
• 2x AW 2600mAh 18650's (AW)
• Pila IBC charger (group buy in the MP)

 

[KiwiMark]

KiwiMark-

We have decided to do the CPF thing and build as many as possible of your suggestions. We have 2C, 3C, and 4C M*gs here itching to show us "Screaming White Incan Goodness" as member GreyShark related recently. (I just love that quote.. lol). I had not heard of the 3854-L bulb before with two Li ions. Sounds good to me. where do you like to get them?

http://www.lighthound.com//Pelican-Big-D-Rechargeable-Lamp-Set-FL-3854_p_1506.html
or
http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm

I have bought from both and they have been good to deal with.

gswitter-

I am dreading the recharging, recharging, recharging... 40 minutes is our target minimum too. Thanks for your recipe- will build asap. And you gave us a choice in quality. Usually choose the better for obvious reasons. FM is out of reflectors, offering his 2.5" throwing head now. Sigh, must wait for funding for more expensive parts.

The Pelican 3854-L only draws 2A, the AW Protected 18650 cells hold 2600mAh = approx 1 1/4 hour run time. This is a good way to go if you want a bright light, but respectable run time. The bulbs come in pairs - you also get a 3854-H bulb, this is a good bulb but draws around 4.4A which is not so good for run time. However the bulb is easy to swap over so you can try out each pretty easily - the 3854-H will struggle to hit 40 min before the batteries are dead though.

Does anyone know what size of M*g reflector we should order from KD? He lists two sizes:

KD M*g OP reflector V3.1 15mm Opening and
KD M*g OP reflector V3.1 8.3mm Opening

For the 3854-L (or -H) bulb the 8.3mm opening is perfect. It is also good with some of the bi-pin bulbs. Not so good with the bigger Osram bulbs though (I don't think you are building with one of them). I have several of each (I do have some big Osram bulbs) of those OP reflectors and I like them.

 

[GreyShark]

GreyShark-

It seems to me that building a ever brighter light is like building up your car. Every mod stresses something else. Add a turbo to your car and you will need to get a stronger transmission, rearend, driveshaft, etc. Even the switch can't handle it. Ok i'm in.

Yeah, building a hotwire is a lot like building a hot rod. It costs less though and I get to use the flashlight more than I would the car so that's how I justify it. Still, you don't even want to know how much I have spent on my C3...

 

[My3kidsfather]

GreyShark-

That is a good point, they are cheaper and useful too. I am just beginning to suspect what a C3 can cost you.. lol.

Yeah, building a hotwire is a lot like building a hot rod. It costs less though and I get to use the flashlight more than I would the car so that's how I justify it. Still, you don't even want to know how much I have spent on my C3...

 

[My3kidsfather]

I just got off the phone with LightHound and they were very helpful getting my account back on line. thanks for the links.

http://www.lighthound.com//Pelican-Big-D-Rechargeable-Lamp-Set-FL-3854_p_1506.html
or
http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm

I have bought from both and they have been good to deal with.



The Pelican 3854-L only draws 2A, the AW Protected 18650 cells hold 2600mAh = approx 1 1/4 hour run time. This is a good way to go if you want a bright light, but respectable run time. The bulbs come in pairs - you also get a 3854-H bulb, this is a good bulb but draws around 4.4A which is not so good for run time. However the bulb is easy to swap over so you can try out each pretty easily - the 3854-H will struggle to hit 40 min before the batteries are dead though.



For the 3854-L (or -H) bulb the 8.3mm opening is perfect. It is also good with some of the bi-pin bulbs. Not so good with the bigger Osram bulbs though (I don't think you are building with one of them). I have several of each (I do have some big Osram bulbs) of those OP reflectors and I like them.