Zune vs iPod - Help a newb out

[LVC2]

Ok, evidently I'm the last human on the planet without a PMP of some sort but I'm finally going to take the plunge.

I want a PMP to store my music on so I'm not constantly moving piles of CDs to and from the cars, digging through the media library looking for CDs, etc. I want to put a lot of music on it so I can use it as my primary source unit at home and in the car. I also want the music to live up to all the $$$ I have invested in audio equipment so I think lossless formats are the only way to go for me.

I say all this to explain why I'm leaning toward the HDD based units. Primarily at the 120 Gb Zune or iPod. I like the flash based units from the durability perspective but I just don't think I'm going to be very happy with 16 Gb capacity. I know Apple offers the Touch in a 32 Gb model but for $400 I'd rather have the 120 Gb iPod Classic and $150.

My (young) daughter has a Nano so I'm familiar with the iPod interface and iTunes store. I have ZERO experience with the Zune and Zune Marketplace.

Any advise on the durability, stability, etc of these things would be greatly appreciated. I'm not opposed to something besides a iPod or Zune if there is a better product out there.

Thanks!

 

[gorn]

I do not have a Zune, but I have several iPods. I have an iPod nano that I use for listening to audio books. I use my iPod Touch to listen to music and just mess around with the different apps that are out there. I really like it's ability to display lyrics while you listen to the song. And I have a 120gb iPod video.

I use the 120gb to store all of my music, all of my wifes music and a bunch of video's that I converted from DVD. It sits in a dock on my Panasonic home theater unit. I have not had any problems with any of the iPods. As for durability, my son carried an 80gig classic during a 15 month combat deployment in Iraq and it survived.

 

[LVC2]

Yeah, the more research I do the less I'm worried about the durability of the HDD models. I like iTunes for the variety available and I like the Zune Marketplace for DRM free music but, honestly the VAST majority of the music I put on the PMP will be from my own CDs. I probably just need to go to the store, flip a coin & buy one.

 

[gunga]

I don't have a Zune but have owned many iPods.

I do like them. They do limit features but you cannot beat the insane amount of accessories available for the iPods. Too bad most cost a lot (including cases!).

Also, be careful as many accessories are rendered obsolete with new iPOd releases. It sucks, but I guess it's business.

Still, I really enjoy my Pods...

 

[baterija]

On the HDD vs flash issue:
- both can be pretty reliable but a HDD requires a good design to be even close to as reliable. If shock resistance matters for your usage it might come into play.
- HDD power usage is going to be higher than flash memory. Look at runtimes to make sure any given player will meet your needs.
- Flash players don't mean you have to keep messing with your CD's. Hard drive storage on your main PC is cheap. You can rip all your CD's once without putting them all on your device. If nothing else it's nice to have the songs saved somewhere other than on your PMP so a device failure doesn't mean you have to rerip everything. At 256 Kbps MP3's you'd be looking at around 133 hours (or about 2000 4 minute long songs) of continuous music without repeating a single song in a 16GB flash player. How many songs do you need along with you?
- If you want to use a lossless format or very high bitrate and still have a very big selection of music, HDD players give you the space.

Ipod thoughts:
- It a very controlled system so it's easy to use for just about everyone. Unless you want to do something that tightly moderated software ecosystem won't let you.
- Uses proprietary plugs instead of standard mini USB so cables cost more and every so often Apple will change. That means the expensive cable you buy now might not work if you upgrade to a new ipod in a couple years. It also mean lugging an ipod specific cable that's good for nothing else if travel is an issue. It does allow docking stations that control the player.
- Decent sound quality but not the best. Decent feature set implemented well but not as many features as some. Premium price.
- Can replace the firmware with RockBox for more features to escape the Apple software limitations.

Zune:
- Controlled system (see above)
- Proprietary plugs (see above)
- Windows only, only officially supports synching with the provided zune software.
- No MSC sync mode - can't use it like a USB flash drive to carry extra files in the same package. (or use it to sync music)
- Some cool sharing features...if you are around Zune users.
- TV out is a cool sounding feature.
- No rockbox.

For me, I am in the "buy neither" camp. Of the 3 big sellers I prefer the Sandisk Sansa, and I didn't buy it either last fall. The Anythingbutipod site was very useful to me in making my decision. It has good reviews and digging around taught me a lot about what I wanted in a player.

 

[LVC2]

I may have to look a little harder at the 32 Gb Creative Zen or the Sandisk player if it's available in a >16 Gb model. It seems like a decent package at a much more reasonable price than a 32 Gb Touch. FWIW I do have a LOT of extra HDD space on my PC so I won't be ripping/re-ripping music no matter which player I end up with.

I appreciate the input guys and I'll go check out the anythingbutipod site.

 

[LEDninja]

It depends on where you get your music & videos.

iPODs can not play protected music & videos from Zune Marketplace.
Zune can not play protected music & videos from iTUNES Store. But there are more places to buy compatible music.

I converted my CDs to MP3s in iTUNES and they play on a Hip Street MINI 2GB music player just fine (1/4 the price of a 2GB iPOD shuffle). Still need the iPOD for my video.

 

[gorn]

I agree with the other posters that iPod accessories are way overpriced. That is if you buy from a retail store. I buy all my cables and cases from ebay. Nice leather cases are usually about $7 or so, the cables go for a couple of bucks. Apple did change the connection cable for the iPods and iPhones with the release of the new 3g phone, but it is backward compatible to the older phones and players.

I was interested in the Rockbox software, unfortunately it doesn't work with the newer nano's or touch players. I have hacked my touch and like what can be done with the jailbroken unit. The only unit I have that could use the rockbox software is my HDD video unit and I'm not going to mess with it.

 

[SnWnMe]

The iPod's special cable is a non issue. Chances are you'll find another iPod user wherever you are. Universal acceptance has its advantages and the iPod is about as ubiquitous as McDonald's.
Your accessories won't be obsolete either. Why would they if you still have your iPod?

 

[Threepio]

I was late to the game also, and bought a 30gig Zune when they came out, because I thought the display and sound quality were better than the iPod at that time. I've loved my Zune, enough to buy my wife a 2nd gen 80gig one for her birthday. Now the 3rd generation is out, at 120gig, and I will buy one when my old one needs replacing. One feature I've liked is that all the firmware is backwardly compatible. My 1st gen unit has all the new features of the 3rd gen ones, and works great. I do not use the Marketplace, all of my content is ripped from my own CDs. The wireless sync is neat, and I do use my FM radio once in a while, too. We're happy with our Zunes!
--Bob

 

[elgarak]

On the HDD vs flash issue:
- both can be pretty reliable but a HDD requires a good design to be even close to as reliable. If shock resistance matters for your usage it might come into play.
- HDD power usage is going to be higher than flash memory. Look at runtimes to make sure any given player will meet your needs.
- Flash players don't mean you have to keep messing with your CD's. Hard drive storage on your main PC is cheap. You can rip all your CD's once without putting them all on your device. If nothing else it's nice to have the songs saved somewhere other than on your PMP so a device failure doesn't mean you have to rerip everything. At 256 Kbps MP3's you'd be looking at around 133 hours (or about 2000 4 minute long songs) of continuous music without repeating a single song in a 16GB flash player. How many songs do you need along with you?
- If you want to use a lossless format or very high bitrate and still have a very big selection of music, HDD players give you the space.

Ipod thoughts:
- It a very controlled system so it's easy to use for just about everyone. Unless you want to do something that tightly moderated software ecosystem won't let you.
- Uses proprietary plugs instead of standard mini USB so cables cost more and every so often Apple will change. That means the expensive cable you buy now might not work if you upgrade to a new ipod in a couple years. It also mean lugging an ipod specific cable that's good for nothing else if travel is an issue. It does allow docking stations that control the player.
- Decent sound quality but not the best. Decent feature set implemented well but not as many features as some. Premium price.
- Can replace the firmware with RockBox for more features to escape the Apple software limitations.

Zune:
- Controlled system (see above)
- Proprietary plugs (see above)
- Windows only, only officially supports synching with the provided zune software.
- No MSC sync mode - can't use it like a USB flash drive to carry extra files in the same package. (or use it to sync music)
- Some cool sharing features...if you are around Zune users.
- TV out is a cool sounding feature.
- No rockbox.

For me, I am in the "buy neither" camp. Of the 3 big sellers I prefer the Sandisk Sansa, and I didn't buy it either last fall. The Anythingbutipod site was very useful to me in making my decision. It has good reviews and digging around taught me a lot about what I wanted in a player.

All video capable iPods have TV out... with an additional, not-really-cheap, cable (they have S-video and component cables for sure, maybe others).

However, let's not forget one thing: Microsoft has killed their own DRM scheme already once ... with no reimbursement or DRM-removal tool for the music people have already bought.

Steve Jobs does not need or want DRM (Thoughts on Music); Apple makes its profit by selling iPods, and the DRM on the iTunes Store is forced onto Apple by the distributors (let's not forget that an increasing amount of music sells DRM-free on iTunes, for the same price as DRM tracks). Compared to that, Microsoft has completely sold themselves over to the media industry (google the DRM scheme that they incorporated into the bowels of Vista to get the HD/Blu-Ray license).

It boils down to this: Which company do you trust more?

On a more practical note: Try to buy and organize a music collection that contains something other than mainstream single-track pop music. Things, like, classical music. It's a nightmare on the Zune/Zune software. By comparison, the only thing problematic on the Apple side is that the don't make full use of the metadata on the music they sell. But you can easily organize music by, say, composer. And find this music on the fly on the iPod, even with large collections. On the Zune, not so much.

I have bought my second iPod Nano recently. I will never buy a Zune.

 

[jnj1033]

I think someone has already mentioned the Creative Zen Vision M. I have the 30 gig version and love it. Most of the reviews I've read said the sound quality is better than iPod. I'm not surprised considering that one of Creative's specialties is sound cards.

Another thing I like about this player is that it is "Playsforsure" compatible. It supports a wider variety of formats than iPod or Zune AFAIK. Just recently, I played Real Media files on it which I had to listen to for a class. One of my colleagues had an iPod and was unable to play them on her device.

The Zen also has an FM tuner, and, depending on which version of the firmware you have, can record from the radio. I've never watched videos on it, but several reviewers preferred the Zen screen over the iPod.

BTW, I buy most of my new music from Amazon.com (must resist temptation to insert affiliate link). It is the same price as iTunes, and a lot of it is available without DRM.

Just my .02.

 

[R33E8]

I think it's kind of pointless to get an iPod now Classic or Nano when there is a Zune equivalent.. Instead of using iTunes to buy your music with DRM, you can get your music DRM free from amazon.com.. The Zune has many more features such as a radio, wireless syncing, larger screen, and scratch resistant surface(although I think they made the 120gb glossy ).. You also don't have to buy one 2 times a year because a new one came out with a new feature or because it died.. Ask a Zune owner how many Zune's they have owned and ask an iPod owner the same.. Most people I know who have had their iPods for a long time have more than one... The sound quality on the Zune is also better and has a better EQ adjuster than the iPod(lol.. it's a joke on the iPod).. The only thing the iPod has over the Zune are case accessories. The thing is, the Zune doesn't really need a case...I have never owned an iPod(of course I have used many) and I am buying my second Zune (I gave my first one that I bought the day it came out to my sister and it's still going strong)...

 

[SnWnMe]

I have 7 ipods in my household . Not because they break but because they are easy to use and millions of folks in the world have one so sharing accessories is very easy wherever I go (by contrast, find a fellow Zune owner to share wireless music with in say... the Manama Souq in Bahrain).
Two of my iPods have been to the Middle East and back and are still ticking. One of those two also survived running in monsoon rains in Asia and tumbling in the desert here in Kalifornia. Good products these iPods.

 

[gorn]

I think it's kind of pointless to get an iPod now Classic or Nano when there is a Zune equivalent.. Instead of using iTunes to buy your music with DRM, you can get your music DRM free from amazon.com.. The Zune has many more features such as a radio, wireless syncing, larger screen, and scratch resistant surface(although I think they made the 120gb glossy ).. You also don't have to buy one 2 times a year because a new one came out with a new feature or because it died.. Ask a Zune owner how many Zune's they have owned and ask an iPod owner the same.. Most people I know who have had their iPods for a long time have more than one... The sound quality on the Zune is also better and has a better EQ adjuster than the iPod(lol.. it's a joke on the iPod).. The only thing the iPod has over the Zune are case accessories. The thing is, the Zune doesn't really need a case...I have never owned an iPod(of course I have used many) and I am buying my second Zune (I gave my first one that I bought the day it came out to my sister and it's still going strong)...

I own several iPods starting with an original nano. Non of my iPods have broken down. They all still work to this day. As for buying music from itunes or amazon. I don't buy music from either of them. None of the thousands of song I have on the iPods have DRM. I'm not interested in having an FM radio in an MP3 player since there are no stations in the area I like.

 

[Lasernerd]

I love my Zune's!
At MS i did a benchmark test of the Audio quality Zune vs. ipod

SNR for the Zune was more than 10 points ahead..


And a little trick I had some friends do at the software department

on the Zune EQ settings the Electronic setting has a increase of 3 db.in volume!
hey it's not much but pushing the max allowable db was a tuffy!

 

[sawlight]

I REFUSED to buy an Ipod!! The battery life sucked and I know several people that had HDD problems when they first came out, and I wasn't happy with the way Apple set up Itunes.
I bought one for my wife. She has a Nano and other than battery life (we knew was going to be a problem) she loves it!!! You can buy about anything you can think of about anywhere you go. She downloads music and videos and my four year old can watch and run it. Apple has pretty much won the war.

I finally broke down, after much resitance, and gave up on my mini disc player. I bought a Sansa clip 4GB. How much music do you really want on there? I have over 500 songs and have only reached half memory! They just released an 8GB clip, 2000 songs! I love music, I have burned CD after CD, singed up with Napster (not happy with them, but they have the best selection) and am scratching my head what else to put on it!!!!!
But I am having problems with accesories, that's another thread.

Probably not much help, but another pesrons opinion.

 

[LEDninja]

The studios are now including DIGITAL versions of the movies on the Special Editions of DVD releases (check the back of the box, this is still fairly new).
The files are huge. 1.5GB for the WMV version and 1.7GB for the iTunes version of Mamma Mia!. Not going to fit too many movies in my iPod Nano.
Does anybody know if the Movie files from the iTunes store is just as big?

Edit
iTUNES did not grab the 1.7GB from the DVD, downloaded a 1.2GB version from iTUNES instead.

 

[seattlite]

On the HDD vs flash issue:
....
Zune:
...
- No MSC sync mode - can't use it like a USB flash drive to carry extra files in the same package. (or use it to sync music)
- TV out is a cool sounding feature.

I bought my first >2G Media Player last year when the 1st Gen 30G Zunes were going for $80 shipped. Since then I thought about upgrading, but can't find a good reason to upgrade.

There is a "hack" out there that will allow you to use the Zune as an external HD. But, I think you have to modify or install some SW on the PC/Laptop that you want to connect ot the Zune.

The TV out is also a cool feature, and you can use any standard 3-were(L, R, Video) with the mini-phone connector, BUT, you have to swap the yellow and either the L or Right to get it to work.

I've since upgraded the firmware to the lastest version to get the latest and greatest features and games.

I don't have that many videos and music, and the only Ipod that I would upgrade to is the Ipod Touch, because of the games....but I think its a bit big...thin, but wide and tall.

 

[hamheart]

iPOD :twothumbs