CBA II runtime pointers??

I just fired up this West Mountain Radio CBA II and it seems to work fine. I can see I will need to figure out a few things.

Can I get a few pointers to same some time and money? I'll be posting the graphs as I do them.

What I've noticed so far is that I need to aligator clip the sidewall of the flashlight and maybe use an aligator clipped to a small magnet that is sitting on the negative battery terminal. I'm also guesing that a magnet at the postive end will help keep a good contact with the head and even magnets in between eac battery to help give them a consistant contact. Any tips here?

Also noticed the new software doesn't have a pull down in the menu for the Lithium Primary batteries like the L91 so do I just use Alkaline from the pulldown? And how do I change the graph title?

Also what are the basic settings you guys recommend when using the basic Alks, L91's, NiMH's and LiON batteries. (Mostly curious about the Test Amps window and the Test Cutoff V)

I was using an L91 in a Ghost II and had the Test Amps at 0.20 and the cutoff V at 0.2 although I don't even know what "Test Amps" are.

Thanks for reading

CroMAGnet:

What's this flashlight head stuff about? Unless your just using the battery tube to hold the cells?

The CBA-II tests batteries not flashlights! You can turn down the current all the way and monitor volatge but I'm not really sure what your trying to do?

I took the tail cap of a flashlight and clipped the positive clip to the body and the negative to a magnet attached to the negative end of the single AA battery within the flashlight. When I click start on the software, the light lights up and the graphing begins. Seems like what's suppose to be happening. :shrug:

The part about the head is, that is where the positive end of the battery is touching. So I figure putting a magnet down there also helps to keep the contact solid, since there is no tailcap holding it down.

CroMAGnet: Congrats on getting a CBAII. It's pretty nice for battery testing.

You should have the following accessories with it:
Powerpole to Battery Test Clamp
CBA Magnetic Temperature Probe
Powerpole to Alligator Clip (low power DYI)
* You might have to purchase them I don't remember 4 sure.

If you need help running it let me know.
As for the Lithium L91 AA just use the Alkaline setting.

CroMAGnet:

Your just connecting the negative lead to the negative contact on the battery and the positive lead to the positive contact on the battery "alone", correct?

ModaMag said:

Congrats on getting a CBAII. It's pretty nice for battery testing.

You should have the following accessories with it:
Powerpole to Battery Test Clamp
CBA Magnetic Temperature Probe
Powerpole to Alligator Clip (low power DYI)
* You might have to purchase them I don't remember 4 sure.

If you need help running it let me know.
As for the Lithium L91 AA just use the Alkaline setting.

Click to expand...

Thanks JD but the CBAII is Jim's I didn't have any accesories, or at least couldn't find them. I had to strip a small section of the wires coming off the CBAII so I could attach the clips.

A powerpoll to battery test clap sounds like something I need As well as the powerpoll to Alligator Clip. I have two wires that have Alligator clips on one end and EZ Hook on the other end. I use the alligator clip to clip onto a magnet which attaches to the battery poll. The other alligator I just clamp to the body since the body is completing the circuit. I think it would need to be done like this in order to be using the actual current path that is used by the flashlight. But I gues there is a whole new path being introduced that runs through the CBAII and my USB port. sheesh

CromagNet's response in bold

wptski said:

CroMAGnet:

Your just connecting the negative lead to the negative contact on the batteryyes and the positive lead to the positive contact on the battery "alone", correct?No. I'm connecting to the body. The positive end is deep down in the flashlight and I'm not sure how to do it any other way. :thinking:

Click to expand...

Hello CroMAGnet,

In order to get the most accurate results from the CBA, it is necessary to utilize the remote voltage modification. You can find the details on the West Mountain Radio web site. You can get by with lower current testing without it, but it is important for higher current single cell tests.

The first thing you need to decide is what test rates you are interested in. You can roughly determine this by looking at run times and the capacity of the batteries used during the run time tests. For example: If a light uses CR123 batteries and runs for about an hour, and the CR123 has a capacity of 1300 mAh, then a good Test Amps rate would be 1.3.

The cut off voltage is up to you. I believe there are some defaults that will keep you out of trouble, but you can set them where ever you want them. Remember that over discharging rechargeable cells will destroy them. With primary cells, it really doesn't matter.

Another consideration is that if things go bad, you will end up with a very hot cell and battery acid spilling out from it. I always recommend charging on a non combustible surface that can contain any venting electrolyte from the batteries. I also keep a fire extinguisher handy, and wear safety glasses when I am working around the batteries.

If you have a calibrated meter, you can use the lab calibrate option to dial in the current for greater accuracy.

I calibrated my temperature probe to be accurate at 140 F. This is also where I set the temperature limit. This means that if the cell reaches 140 F during a discharge, the CBA will shut off. You also need to make sure you have good contact between the temperature probe and the battery. A rubber band or a small piece of tape works very well for this.

With primary cells, I usually try to do at least 4 samples, and compare the results. If there is little scatter, I call it good. If there is a lot of scatter, I test more cells. With secondary cells, I do several runs and usually try to have at least 4 cells of the same type and capacity. This is not always possible, but we can try...

You can plan on burning through 15-20 tests before you finally understand the whole procedure. Feel free to experiment and try different things during these initial tests. This will give you an idea of how to set up your formal test procedure.

Once you have developed a formal test procedure, make sure you follow it closely. The tests should be done the same way each time in order to properly evaluate the batteries you are testing.

The most important thing is to remember to have fun.

Tom

CroMAGnet:

I have clamps made up now but at first I got a WMR extension cord with power poles and cut it in half. I got a set of wide jaw 10A clips from Radio Shack and solder them to the cut cord. I then got a bunch of those super magnets in 1/4" dia. x 1" long. Used the magnets on the ends and also to connect two together if needed.

Alligator clips slip off unless you use a small diameter magnet. I got a couple of WMR clamps but ended up getting adjustable type at Sears and using the wire connections from the WMR ones.

I was trying to find some copper sheets to make up more clamps but it's hard to find. I ended ordering a small piece of a copper gutter used on homes. Got enough copper for a bunch now! Got some carpet tape to hold it on too. Haven't got around to cutting, soldering, etc. just yet.

Thanks a lot for the help

I'm at home trying to get it right. The magnets are helping. The whole contraption is working.

Is there suppose to be light coming out of the flashlight during the runtime test?
If yes, should it be the same output as normally turning the light on or lower?

I get a much lower output of light during the runtime test.

Does one of the variable input data alter the light output during runtime testing? Say the Test Amps?

Hello CroMAGnet,

Let's stop and think about this for a moment... The purpose of the CBA is to check the performance and capacity of the battery. If your lamp is using some of the capacity, the CBA will not register it and you will get bogus numbers.

If you want to use a flashlight as a battery holder, take the lamp out so you can isolate the batteries. Better yet, make yourself a clamp/holder, like this one.

Tom

I think it's possible to use the CBA as a flashlight runtime test tool as CroMAGnet seems to be trying to do. I think it has to be connected in parallel with the batteries, and the software set in the 0 current draw mode. Then it will just log the voltage of the battery as the flashlight drains the battery. If there is some correlation between output and battery voltage, you'll now see how long you can run the light and how bright it stays. You could even connect the temperature probe to the flashlight and get a running temperature reading of the light during the test.

bcwang:

There are boost/buck circuits and I know for one that I don't know if the voltage follows the light's output in a linear fashion. The temperature probe is next to useless! I sent mine back and WMR found nothing wrong with it and said to calibrate it at 150F. I still found it not to be linear compared to a Fluke 54-II. It's okay for a safety stop but accurate, it's not! Users in the RC Groups seem to agree with me.

Well, to go with the 600 bargain priced Lithium AA cells I just bought I guess that I will be buying one of these. The West Mountain Radio product seems pretty nice at a reasonable price. Are there any other brands in this category?

If I get one, not only will I be able to use it to good/bad test my Li AA cells but I can also finally get the capacity at low ambient temperature data that I have been wanting for Energizer vs BatteryStation cells. To bad the WMR-CBA temperature probe is reported to be nonlinear.

So, I guess that I will just be ordering the CBA-II with no accessories; any comments?

Powerpole connector to ...

So, what is a good (inexpensive) way to connect the CBA with its Powerpole connectors to a AA battery in a standard AA battery holder?

Hello David!
Here is a picture of a cheap way to connect the CBA.
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/ezonemag/2004/aug/westmount/setup.jpg

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247448&page=1&pp=15
And here you can look in a forum with many answers about this product.

Anders

from the RC thread above, it seems like the temperature probe can be pretty accurate. It seems that some have poor connections causing invalid results.

I have only read through page 12 of the RC Forum thread. To that point it still seemed inconclusive as to what the problem was with the temp probe.

Anders,

Thank you for those links! The RC Forum thread was very informative. That battery test jig in the photo looks nice. Is it yours? I would like to know how to construct (or buy) something like that - all I have are the simplest of handtools for building stuff.

SilverFox,

If you are following this thread; could you describe how you connect batteries to the CBA?

Hello David!

No, its not mine i saw it in the rcforum.
Westmountainradion are selling a clamp, connected with the right cables för 14,95 USD.
But it can only handle cells up to 2 inches:mecry:

http://www.westmountainradio.com/rigrunner/pp_clamp.htm

Anders

Westmountainradion are selling a clamp, connected with the right cables för 14,95 USD.

Click to expand...

Excellent! I had seen this mentioned in the RC Forum thread but hadn't been able to find it in the WestMountainRadio website.

Is that battery Test Clamp listed anywhere on the PowerWerx website so that it can be order online with the CBA?
http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=3331&CtgID=3584

The WMR website doesn't have any prices or method for online oredering. I can find the CBA on the PowerWerx website with prices and online ordering but I can't find the Battery Test Clamp on either site.