Blaster, 5 Watt Luxeon Star, Considerations and Input

I am giving serious considerations to using the Blaster for the 5 watt Luxeon Star. It would have an enlarged diameter body, to allow use of a 8AA battey pack, and probably a step down regulator. It would probably be 1" shorter than the present design.

As I have the StarLux for use with the 1 Watt, I am not sure I need another 1 watt design? Of course, using the voltage regulator, it could be set for use with either emitter.

I'm still at least a month or so away from being able to market the Blaster. I have another 10 or so of the present design to be sold.

Any input would be appreciated.

Here's a link to a web page about the Blaster:
Blaster Web Page

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

Hi Wayne.
Just curious if you were still planning on auctioning #1, or did you already?
Thanks
Joshua

Originally posted by virgo:
Hi Wayne.
Just curious if you were still planning on auctioning #1, or did you already?
Thanks
Joshua

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still have it. I like it so much, and it's the only one I have assembled, in my possession. I installed the dog gone brightest emitter of the whole batch of 1 watt Lambertian high domes in it (rated at 27 lumens per watt, at 350mA, but I'm running it DD from 4.5 volts, at about 800mA). I raised the optics holder up a bit to better focus the beam. I do need to auction it off, though, as I promised.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

Wayne,

I think that sounds like a great idea! There are two configurations that I'd like to see for the 5W: 8xAA in series with a step-down convertor and 4x123 in series with a step-down convertor. Those are both 12V configurations (could share the same circuit) and I think both will deliver good runtime characteristics. The 8AA body (your Blaster would be perfect) would give a nice duty light with good battery life and cheap operation. The 4x123 could be a more compact light for carrying around more with higher running cost.

I don't have the skills to do any of this, though, so I'll be a cheerleader instead and do a few high kicks in support of a 5W 8AA Blaster(I'll try not to pull anything).

- Russ

Originally posted by r2:
Wayne,

I think that sounds like a great idea! There are two configurations that I'd like to see for the 5W: 8xAA in series with a step-down convertor and 4x123 in series with a step-down convertor. Those are both 12V configurations (could share the same circuit) and I think both will deliver good runtime characteristics. The 8AA body (your Blaster would be perfect) would give a nice duty light with good battery life and cheap operation. The 4x123 could be a more compact light for carrying around more with higher running cost.

I don't have the skills to do any of this, though, so I'll be a cheerleader instead and do a few high kicks in support of a 5W 8AA Blaster(I'll try not to pull anything).

- Russ

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Russ,

The AA battery is so inexpensive, but the 123 is so expensive.

Wayne J.

Wayne, any run time approximations on the 8aa version? I need a 5w. light.

Hey Russ,

I much prefer a regulator over a resistor too. There is a huge cost difference too. The same flashlight can cost up to $20 more, just to add a regulator. So some people might want to go economy.

I plan to encase the circuitry into the switch. (hide it in epoxy). If a person wants to upgrade, he can buy a new switch with the desired circuit installed in it.

The Badboy from what I understand is a step-up regulator. I want to use a step down, and go from 12 volts down to 6.8. One thing I like about a step down is that until the voltages comes down to 1 volt above the output voltage, the light basically is always the same brightness.

I am always so impressed with dat2zip's circuit designs. I have read somewhere he is also working on a buck regulator design.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

Hi Wayne,

An option to upgrade to regulated output is a pretty cool idea. I'm getting excited about this now--put me down for one of these with whatever regulation you settle on.

I think the 8AA configuration is a nice one. I've been thinking about modifying a 2D maglite (mostly idle musings since I don't have a 5W LS yet), but I think the 2D maglite body is kind of klunky--lots of wasted space. They are much longer than they need to be (the spare bulb holder becomes useless), and the head is huge for a LS without a reflector. I've been wishing that the Surge was aluminum for a while to use as a 5W LS doner body. I like the look and design of your Blasters so I'm excited to see you considering this project.

I'm not sure if you followed this thread before:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000330;p=4#000136

dat2zip posted some results from his Badboy design. I suggested using it (even though it is step-up) because it gives really flat output and it is most efficient with close to 6V input (around 90% looking at the 650mA output version). 2x4xAA would give it that input without taxing the alkalines too much. If you look at the next message in that thread you can see that I have a one-track mind

Another thing to consider might be a direct drive with 6AA. You could make a slightly narrower body that way and I know you've produced some great results with direct drive in the past. Personally I'd prefer 8AA with regulation, but 6AA direct would be simple and elegant. Didn't someone (you, perhaps?) try out 6AA direct drive successfully? If nothing else, using a resistor would waste less power in this configuration.

- Russ

Russ,

The 6 AA direct drive would require more heat sinking than a 3 'D' cell can provide.

I'm sure a 6AA DD can be done, but a lot more heat sinking is needed. It just gets too hot too quick. I also have to think about reliability.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

Wayne J,

I know you prefer buck to boost, but what about DC step up from 4D cells - a big torch for big runtime perhaps?

Derek

Originally posted by across the pond:
Wayne J,

I know you prefer buck to boost, but what about DC step up from 4D cells - a big torch for big runtime perhaps?

Derek

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A step up would work fine from 4 D cells. I have also been looking at this concept too. But I can fit 5 C cells in to a 4 D cell, go direct drive, and look at all the money I save!

I left the 5 C cell 5 watt on for about 7 hours and it was still really bright. Well, it's gone now, because someone bought it from me. But it was a great light, although sort of big. If I go 4 D cells, might as well go 5 D cells, and that's something I plan to do. Five D cells, direct drive!

I also conveted a 3 'D' cell into a 4 'C' cell, and mounted a 5 watt. It's pretty bright, brighter than a 1 watt, and gets pretty good battery life too. A very safe mod. It can be converted to a 5 AA mod with one of my 6AA battery packs, if desired.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

Originally posted by Geoff in Philly:
Wayne, any run time approximations on the 8aa version? I need a 5w. light.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Geoff,

I will have to test and find out. I don't think it will be anything near what the 1 watt gets. If you want long battery life, the 1 watt is the way to go. If you want a much brighter light, the 5 watt is the way to go. I wouldn't expect much more than 4 hours, but I suppose it really depends on the efficiency of the regulator.

I could also use a resistor (a yuck regulator) for a more economical version. A regulator adds cost to the flashlight.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

I'd much rather have a regulator than a resistor.

For runtime, I would expect something similar to what all the 2AA LS mods (and the Arc LS) get now. A 5W LS is 4 1W emitters on the same die and you are giving it 4 times the juice. Of course, there is a lot more to it than that, but as a ballpark figure that's probably reasonable.

The PT Surge is a good place to look for comparison--It uses 8xAA (configured as 2 parallel sets of 4xAA) and draws around 7 watts if I remember right. 5W for the LS and another watt or two of loss in the regulator is pretty reasonable to expect, so your Blaster would probably have battery life similar to the Surge.

Actually, the Surge brings up a good point. I haven't heard a recent update on dat2zip's high output badboy, but it might be a good candidate for this project. Configure the batteries like the Surge does and use dat2zip's Badboy (I think he was making some color-coded version with output appropriate for a full 5W LS load) for current regulation with a tested circuit that already exists.

- Russ

Originally posted by ElektroLumens:
A step up would work fine from 4 D cells. I have also been looking at this concept too. But I can fit 5 C cells in to a 4 D cell, go direct drive, and look at all the money I save!

I left the 5 C cell 5 watt on for about 7 hours and it was still really bright. Well, it's gone now, because someone bought it from me. But it was a great light, although sort of big. If I go 4 D cells, might as well go 5 D cells, and that's something I plan to do. Five D cells, direct drive!

I also conveted a 3 'D' cell into a 4 'C' cell, and mounted a 5 watt. It's pretty bright, brighter than a 1 watt, and gets pretty good battery life too. A very safe mod. It can be converted to a 5 AA mod with one of my 6AA battery packs, if desired.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's a bit of a pedantic quirk, but I like using even numbers of batteries - you buy them in multiples of 2, most chargers charge them in multiples of 2 etc. (unless it's just 1 batt! )

But I like the 8AA concept - Maplins (like radio shack) do an 8AA NiMH charger + 8 batts for £18

Does a n 8AA batt holder (in a 2x2x2 config) fit in a 2D space? That and a 5W in a 2D (or 3D) mag body would be cool! (or should that be warm? )

Or would you be machining your own body? (love the colour of the blaster btw!)

Derek.

Hi Derek,

I have a few 4 'N' cell battery holders, and they fit inside a D cell flashlight just fine. Kind of expensive batteries, with not much amp hours, but they would work.

From 5 D cells, at this point I think maybe 12 hours could be expected in battery life from alkalines, probably more. It takes a long time to use a flashlight 12 hours. So why bother with rechargables. They lose a small amount of charge each day, just sitting there, anyway. Of course, IMHO.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

I just looked up self discharge rates for different battery types:

(in % of capacity/mo)
NiCD - 15
NiMH - 35
Li-ion - 0.1
Pb-acid - 6

35%!!! That's pretty bad... NiMH seems best suited to a 'guaranteed to be used every day' light then.

Originally posted by across the pond:
I just looked up self discharge rates for different battery types:

(in % of capacity/mo)
NiCD - 15
NiMH - 35
Li-ion - 0.1
Pb-acid - 6

35%!!! That's pretty bad... NiMH seems best suited to a 'guaranteed to be used every day' light then.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know the source of those figures, but they are very wrong. I've had NiMh AA cells that have sat for 5 to 6 months work almost like they were just charged. According to the figures you've found, they would have been next to dead in 3 months. Judging by my NiMh camcorder battery, I'd say maybe 5% a month at most.......

I suspect the 35% is of remaining capacity so it wouldn't be completely dead in 3 months. I don't know if those figures are accurate, but I have had pretty bad discharge before from NiMH. I had completely dead batteries in a matter of months. More than 3, probably 6-8 months or so in my case.

Let's see.. at 35%/month it would be:

100.0%
65.0%
42.3%
27.5%
17.9%
11.6%
7.5%

Given the relatively flat discharge curve of a NiMH it could be pretty deceptive. You could easily pick something up after a few months and have it appear to work fine but actually be very low on capacity.

I don't actually know about NiMH but I think I've heard similar figures before. It probably varies quite a bit, too.

- Russ

Originally posted by lambda:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by across the pond:
I just looked up self discharge rates for different battery types:

(in % of capacity/mo)
NiCD - 15
NiMH - 35
Li-ion - 0.1
Pb-acid - 6

35%!!! That's pretty bad... NiMH seems best suited to a 'guaranteed to be used every day' light then.

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know the source of those figures, but they are very wrong. I've had NiMh AA cells that have sat for 5 to 6 months work almost like they were just charged. According to the figures you've found, they would have been next to dead in 3 months. Judging by my NiMh camcorder battery, I'd say maybe 5% a month at most.......</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think we ought to research it a bit more.

Wayne J.
www.elektrolumens.com

My experience was using them in a portable CD player, and didn't notice any shorter than usual play time. They are 1700mah Energizer AAs, and they are only about 1 year old.

I suppose I could charge some and check them in 6 months...........