What are Fenix worth to you?

In light of the recent revelation on the prices of these lights, what do you guys think?

These number are based on the cost DX had listed for them.
Which means that on top of the profit which is already being made at those prices,
we are paying the following extra premium:

as compared by musicalfruit:
E0 -$6.49 (-35%)
L0D -$9.28 (-22%)
L1D -$11.16 (-22%)
L2D -$10.98 (-21%)
P1D -$19.61 (-31%)
P2D -$11.40 (-23%)
P3D -$15.08 (-27%)

"More should be as humble as DX." - HAHAHAHAHAHA

You have no clue what is going on, and you make a poll like this. Hilarious.

Why not wait until we have more understanding about why DX had them priced so cheap. Since they're no longer even available now, this whole poll is moot.

Beyond all that - the $51 I paid for the L1D CE w/ textured reflector was definitely worth it. The light performs very well (as I have posted in other threads). Delivery time was quick (2 days) - and even though accessories weren't included by mistake, they were sent out Monday morning at 9:30am and even included a free L2D holster.

wintermute said:

"More should be as humble as DX." - HAHAHAHAHAHA

You have no clue what is going on, and you make a poll like this. Hilarious.

Why not wait until we have more understanding about why DX had them priced so cheap. Since they're no longer even available now, this whole poll is moot.

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I think the poll is more about what people think the price should be. I see nothing wrong with that.

ruralott said:

I think the poll is more about what people think the price should be. I see nothing wrong with that.

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It's the wording..."More should be as humble as DX" - that's a slap in the face to all other retailers like they are doing something wrong. We have no clue why DX's prices were so cheap - but they are gone now anyway.

Sure wintermute, and the comments u made on the other thread assuming all those negative stuff about DX isn't?
You're taking the text in the pole options to seriously, y not loosen up a bit?

This pole is just my opinion of things, just wana know what people generally think.
So sorry we aren't all knowing like you about everything Fenix.

Forum mods should really keep an eye on this rampant dumping by wintermute.

well for me the P1D CE seems a lil high and i think L0D CE could be a lil cheaper as well...and OP reflectors would be a plus...cos in general i would think the price should go up by the size of the torch

I Voted "More should be as humble as DX.":thumbsup:

:nana:

Sean

Yapo said:

well for me the P1D CE seems a lil high and i think L0D CE could be a lil cheaper as well...and OP reflectors would be a plus...cos in general i would think the price should go up by the size of the torch

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P1D CE does seem excessively high compared to the other models - I wonder why that is. P1D CE is ~$68 retail while the regular P1D is ~$53 retail and the P2D CE is only ~$55 retail. P1D CE seems priced too high for the model.

Not sure about the L0D models, as things get smaller, it can be more difficult to fit the technology in there...so not sure if L0D is priced too high for it's performance. LiteFlux 2 is approximately the same price...so it seems in-line with other models of the same size with similar performance (although the LF2 may outshine in some areas).

part of me would like the price to remain stable so i wouldn't feel so bad.

but.. my money is spent already. whether someone gets it cheaper or not doesn't affect me. so as a consumer i would like to see the prices go cheaper based on competition.

dx so far has been excellent with customer service by my experiences. their shipping time is their major downfall imo. if it was $15 cheaper i would have to ask myself, could i wait an extra week for that amount. how much is my time worth or how impulsive do i feel today?

I'm happy with the prices, moderate build quality, but especially, their speed to market with new models and technology. Compare this with the glacial speeds of Arc and Surefire.

Yapo said:

well for me the P1D CE seems a lil high and i think L0D CE could be a lil cheaper as well...and OP reflectors would be a plus...cos in general i would think the price should go up by the size of the torch

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Hmmm... From the Fenix Store, the P1D CE is the third best selling light, and best selling CR123 right now (top ten list):

01. Fenix Digital L2D CE Black Textured
02. Fenix Digital L1D CE Black Textured
03. Fenix Digital P1D CE Black Finish
04. Fenix Digital P3D Black Finish
05. Fenix Digital L0D CE Black Finish
06. Fenix Digital P2D Black Finish
07. Fenix Digital P1D CE NATURAL Finish
08. Fenix Digital L0D Black Finish
09. Fenix Digital P3D NATURAL Finish
10. Fenix Digital P1D Black Finish

So far, still seems to hit the right price/performance for most folks.

I assume that Fenix and 4Sevens are in this to make some money as well as for the fame and glamor from selling flashlights.

-Bill

PS: And, overall, it seems that Fenix has a pretty reliable light so far--I too remember some very ugly teething problems with lights from times past (both large and small manufacturers).

This poll could be replaced by any number of other products, e.g. Toyota (vs. Kia), Bugatti (vs. Ferrari), Al Mar (vs. Mtech), Miele (vs. Hoover), [hold your hat here....] Surefire (vs. Kai/DX), HDS (vs. Fenix), and on and on..

We'd all like lower prices as long as nothing else was compromised, but I don't think the world works that way....

BB said:

Hmmm... From the Fenix Store, the P1D CE is the third best selling light, and best selling CR123 right now (top ten list):

01. Fenix Digital L2D CE Black Textured
02. Fenix Digital L1D CE Black Textured
03. Fenix Digital P1D CE Black Finish
04. Fenix Digital P3D Black Finish
05. Fenix Digital L0D CE Black Finish
06. Fenix Digital P2D Black Finish
07. Fenix Digital P1D CE NATURAL Finish
08. Fenix Digital L0D Black Finish
09. Fenix Digital P3D NATURAL Finish
10. Fenix Digital P1D Black Finish

So far, still seems to hit the right price/performance for most folks.

I assume that Fenix and 4Sevens are in this to make some money as well as for the fame and glamor from selling flashlights.

-Bill

PS: And, overall, it seems that Fenix has a pretty reliable light so far--I too remember some very ugly teething problems with lights from times past (both large and small manufacturers).

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I am not saying if I agree or disagree with their pricing, it is free trade and if they sell for that then they are "worth it" to the buyer, if they are not, they will not sell and the price will be forced down.

However I will say that BB, your post was a bit of a leap in logic. You concluded that their pricing was fair to "most folks", this impies that "most folks" go to the Fenix site. Or that even "most folks" who go to the site actually make a purchse. Their data does not show that in the least.

Better to be said would be the pricing is fair to those who go and shop there, it is hard to say how many and who they may be from a simple chart giving their best sellers.

nerdgineer said:

This poll could be replaced by any number of other products, e.g. Toyota (vs. Kia), Bugatti (vs. Ferrari), Al Mar (vs. Mtech), Miele (vs. Hoover), [hold your hat here....] Surefire (vs. Kai/DX), HDS (vs. Fenix), and on and on..

We'd all like lower prices as long as nothing else was compromised, but I don't think the world works that way....

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I don't think he meant it that way. It was more like .. do you think if the Fenix lights are worth their retail values or are they more worth the prices that DX were selling them for. I just think that because they are higher in price does not always mean that they are better (I guess in build quality when it comes to lights?).

Lee1959 said:

I am not saying if I agree or disagree with their pricing, it is free trade and if they sell for that then they are "worth it" to the buyer, if they are not, they will not sell and the price will be forced down.

However I will say that BB, your post was a bit of a leap in logic. You concluded that their pricing was fair to "most folks", this impies that "most folks" go to the Fenix site. Or that even "most folks" who go to the site actually make a purchse. Their data does not show that in the least.

Better to be said would be the pricing is fair to those who go and shop there, it is hard to say how many and who they may be from a simple chart giving their best sellers.

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Well, BB looked at the list of "Best Sellers" on the Fenix-Store website. He indicated "most folks", but that was aimed at the data from the Fenix-store site...not from the entire world in general. The data is not the most looked at lights, it's the best selling lights...so I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "Or that even "most folks" who go to the site actually make a purchase". He was making no assumptions about those who don't make purchases - only those who actually do make purchases from the store.

Regardless, regarding the price/performance point the price seems to be similar across sellers besides Fenix-store:
Lighthound - Fenix P1D CE 5 Level CREE LED Flashlight Black Finish - $64.95 + $6 shipping
Fenix Tactical - P1D CE BLACK - $73.50 CDN (US$67.95)
Serious Lights - Fenix P1D-CE - Black - $64.95 + $8.00 shipping

etc...etc...The light seems to sell at most dealers for the same price, and seems to be a popular model based on posting history around CPF and the "Best Sellers" list at Fenix-Store. I don't think his statement was that big of a leap in logic.

johnny13oi said:

I don't think he meant it that way. It was more like .. do you think if the Fenix lights are worth their retail values or are they more worth the prices that DX were selling them for. I just think that because they are higher in price does not always mean that they are better (I guess in build quality when it comes to lights?).

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But when one of the options in the poll is "More should be as humble as DX." - don't you think that is going to create an inflammatory response.

It is a fair statement, and I was not criticising, simply attempting to correct an invalid conclusion.

It is not representative of most folks, period. Nor is it representitive of people who prichase flashlights, or even purchase flashlights off the web. It is simply a reflection of those who went and purchased lights there, not a reflection of those who buy flashlights overall, nor even all the peope who visit that website.

Unless statistics are kept for all flashlight purchases of every kind every where, all of the individuals who visit the particular site, and then their purchases on that site, it is impossible to say how many people the prices seem fair too compared to "most folks".

To assume that they are fair because something is the 3rd best seller on that site is meaningless when discussing prices to the over all consumer market.

THAT is what I was saying, and it is quite correct logically, no matter if you like it or no. As to what he meant to say, unlike yourself I will not attempt to speculate, I simply dealt with his statement.


It IS fair however to say that the prices must be fair to enough people to make the lights a viable profitable product, if not, the prices would go down, or Fenix would go out of business.

Generally in life you get what you pay for.

With Fenix you get ample value for money, but hey I wouldn't complain if they became cheaper (in price not in quality).

Just my 2 cents worth!

Shine on.........

Obviously, the Fenix Store Website is a sample of only their paying customers... I was trying to show that among those that actually shell out cash for lights at Fenix Store, the P1D-CE was their most popular CR123 light and third most popular overall--even though it is among their most expensive lights (for Fenix brand)...

So the suggestion that "P1D CE seems a lil high"... is OK for an opinion, but without an analysis of the construction/warranty costs and marketing study--it seems that it is not "unfairly" priced.

Could it be cheaper--sure--We would like that to be true.

By the way, my thanks to 4Sevens' for even having this list on his website. This is marketing data that most other companies pay good money for.

I sometimes feel like the need to defend people in the business of selling lights (and other things) in the free market. They take the risk (stock going obsolete overnight--like Cree LEDs, warranty claims, lost in mail, inventory costs, etc.).

What is the retailer going to say in defense? ..."You are correct, my price is too high. Let me sell it for less than it costs me?"

4Sevens, and others, have taken their hard earned money and loans to make a bet that people out there will want their products and services. And that manufacturers will be able to supply the product at the price, quality, and quantity to support their business model. And that somebody elsewhere won't offer the same product from overseas for 25% less just a mouse click away.

My hat's off to anyone that is in retail and selling on the Internet. It is a rough game out there.

If I was going by pure volume--MagLights (or some other popular mass-market brand) would be the only high quality flashlight that anyone ever should own. SureFires and a dozen other niche market/quality brands are barely making a blip in the market--therefore they are not worth the money.

Nobody is going to support that conclusion.

-Bill

My take on this.

I think the Fenix lights are a real deal at the prices they currently sell for.

Of course, lower prices are always better so long as the service and quality remains the same.

Comparing the Fenix lights with the Surefire, I'd say the Surefire still is better built, but the Fenix lights have more features and are usually brighter when comparing similar models.

I also consider many of the Surefires a deal for what you get, a flashlight with lifetime warranty and strenuous testing in the field, so to speak.

Certainly, Fenix has upped the bar as far as features and brightness, so to pay the current price for the latest Fenix lights is not really that much considering a custom light putting out these levels of brightness and features even two years ago would have cost many hundreds of $$$ and many of us would have bought them at those prices anyhow.


If the manufacturers (and/or retailers) always low-ball things, they'll not have resources to develop (or carry) new leading-edge products.

Consider how much you pay for furniture, electronic equipment (audio/video/computer) and other items as well. The markup is significant on these types of items as well.

I used to work in the wholesale side of the jewelry business and the markup is very extreme on diamonds (any stones really) and gold. These items are not all that rare but are usually marked up 300-800%. There is no new development that goes into producing stones or gold year after year. Sure maybe new developments in mining, but the actual product is the same as it was 100 years ago. Yet, still such a high markup with no new breakthroughs in quality, size, etc.

So consider the prices for the Fenix lights listed at the beginning of this topic. The markup is not really that high considering the high level of research and development that goes into the next level of product.

Competition is a good thing.