Have Rebel problems let you down? What's next for Seoul?

I've had Cree, Seoul and now Rebel lights. All impressively bright compared to the Lux 3s we used to love. Seems to me that the Seoul are the most reliably pleasing. There is little tint shift from one led to the next, the beam has a beautiful, clean transition from spot to fill, and they don't have the ringyness problems exhibited by Crees. Also, Seouls are great for upgrades from Luxeons using existing reflectors.

Lots of complaints here lately about the Rebels. Tint shifts from one to the next just like the Luxeons. And it's troubling that multi-mode lights show big shifts in color temperature, and thus tint, from low to high. That's a big bummer. No such problem with the Seouls.

Does anyone know what's coming next for the Seoul led technology? I love all of the Seoul lights I've had although my guess is that they probably don't have the market share or marketing muscle to compete in the mainstream market. Is Lumileds still the big gorilla?

I have noticed a fair shift from white at higher powers on a Seoul to fairly bluish on lower power levels. I've got 2 Rebels and both seem very white on high as well as lower levels. Both seem a little cool if anything. I've got Cree's that are very ring free if used with a good OP reflector. So not to contradict all you are saying but just sharing what I've experienced. I think our personal experiences are fairly limited unless we have thousands of lights. They all seem to have their advantages and I'm not sure yet about the Rebel. I do plan on putting a Rebel or a Cree at some point behind an optic in a Firefly to see what that produces. I don't know of anyone using the old style optics in front of a Cree or Rebel. Could be interesting.

matrixshaman said:

I've got Cree's that are very ring free if used with a good OP reflector.

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Yep, I agree. That's the key to getting the CREEs to look good.

I've been very happy with all the Rebel lights I've experienced, with the exception of the Fenix L0DR80. From what I've seen, the Rebel has lived up to it's hype very well. The L0D runs on a AAA primary, of course, and it seems like the Rebel needs a little more juice than the poor little cell can provide to really be a blockbuster.
When they get the juice they need, the Rebels seem to really "shine".

I think some of the disappointment with Rebel "tint variations" is that we thought/hoped we were beyond that, coupled with an increase in awareness and sensitivity... we're just very picky. :green: From what I've seen, the variations in tint with the Rebel are nowhere near what the Luxeon lottery used to be.


On the other hand, I've been somewhat disappointed by the Seouls I've had. The JetBeam Jet-u just didn't seem to put out what I expected it to... (although the floody beam made it appear dimmer, it was still disappointing); and the LiteFlux LF5 also didn't meet my expectations as far as brightness and throw are concerned... but I'm EDCing it anyways.

I saw a thread a week or two ago about SSC's new emitter, which was a rectangular looking deal. I wonder how you would get a reflector around it. :shrug:

I am very pleased with my Rebel P2D. As I've said before, it's has a slight rose tint that is virtually indistinguishable. The tint is consistent between levels, as well. I like it quite a bit.

I think I prefer the beam quality of a Cree with an OP reflector, though. In the Cree lights I own, the hotspot is larger.

I've yet to try the rebel, I'm waiting for a rebel specific reflector instead of adding a washer to cover up the space of a smaller emitter.

I too am waiting for the next bin of Seoul LEDs. I prefer these over Cree because of the beam they produce and the ease of upgrading old Lux lights.

This is a list of lights I've modded with SSC since I like them so much.

Rexlight 2.0
Fenix P3D
Fenix L1P
Surefire E2L (KL1)

I know its a small collection... I'm working on it.

I only have 2 rebel lights...a Fenix P3D and a Lumapower M1R, but both have nice white tints at all levels. That being said, I like any led that prodeces white tints. I also agree that OP reflectors make a big difference in beam quality.

onthebeam said:

I've had Cree, Seoul and now Rebel lights. All impressively bright compared to the Lux 3s we used to love. Seems to me that the Seoul are the most reliably pleasing. There is little tint shift from one led to the next, the beam has a beautiful, clean transition from spot to fill, and they don't have the ringyness problems exhibited by Crees. Also, Seouls are great for upgrades from Luxeons using existing reflectors.

Lots of complaints here lately about the Rebels. Tint shifts from one to the next just like the Luxeons. And it's troubling that multi-mode lights show big shifts in color temperature, and thus tint, from low to high. That's a big bummer. No such problem with the Seouls.

Does anyone know what's coming next for the Seoul led technology? I love all of the Seoul lights I've had although my guess is that they probably don't have the market share or marketing muscle to compete in the mainstream market. Is Lumileds still the big gorilla?

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I'm surprised that someone with over 800 posts and have been here for over 2 years would post such "noobish" lines without getting his facts straight first. It's somewhat offensive to have to read such factually incorrect material on CPF.

I'm so overwhelmed by the inaccuracy of the OP I don't even know where to start, but I'll try my best.

First of all, I don't know what you mean by "Seouls are the most reliably pleasing" so I'll just have to give you a pass on that one.

"There is little tint shift from one led to the next..." That's why the emitters come in bins. The competion, XR-Es and Rebels, also have "little" tint shift from one led to the next when they're in the same bin. However, Seouls do have a well recorded problem in tint shifting when taking high currents, as the cool, cool white turns into angry blue...

"The beam has a beautiful, clean transition from spot to fill..." Again, I don't know what you mean by fill, but if you're refering to the beam quality of a particular flashlight in terms of its spread from the beam's spot to its spill, then you should have lurked around some more from your 2 years already spent in CPF and realized that what you refer to as Seoul's beautiful and clean beam is the product of a flashlight's reflector design, and has nothing to do with the emitter as the beam can be altered in virtually ANY way the flashlight maker wants to by altering the reflector.

"...and they don't have the ringyness problems exhibited by Crees..." See point above about reflector design.

"Also, Seouls are great for upgrades from Luxeons using existing reflectors" made for Luxeon products in the first place, one such as the Rebel?

"Lots of complaints here lately about the Rebels...troubling that multi-mode lights show big shifts in color temperature, and thus tint, from low to high. No such problems with Seouls."
Seoul's P4 demonstrate the most furious and abrupt shift in tint (that angry, angry blue) when driven by high currents. It requires IMPECCABLE heatsink at higher currents.

Seriously, man, when you post such factually incorrect information in the forum, you run the risk of looking like a troll for the company you're cozying up to.

Wow. Try decaf next time, my friend.

I think the rebels have the best tint out of the three I really like crees but the rebel has won me over.

onthebeam said:

Wow. Try decaf next time, my friend.

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:thumbsdow Try getting a life, troll.

Waiting for a moderator or Administrator.

Bill

I have a Seoul modded L0P and it's tint doesn't shift from high to low.
I also have a Lumapower F1 with a Seoul and it has the smoothest beam of any light I've owned, and there have been quite a few.

I agree with the OP that the Seoul has a much smoother beam pattern than the Cree, and it's NOT because of the reflector. Nevertheless, I love the way the Cree throws, and a nice throw puts a smile on my face.

Bullzeyebill said:

Waiting for a moderator or Administrator.

Bill

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I'd sure welcome that. I went and looked at the posting history of our intense contributor above and he seems to like to make a habit of this sort of thing. If it's best to close this one, I'll still hope to find a way of trying to learn what might be next down the road for Seouls.

We've never had three high quality competing LED companies out there before, at least as far as I know. I'm only guessing that Seoul is the little guy in this market but was hoping that those who are more enlightened, and of kind spirit, might have some insights.

daveman said:

I'm surprised that someone with over 800 posts and have been here for over 2 years would post such "noobish" lines without getting his facts straight first. It's somewhat offensive to have to read such factually incorrect material on CPF.

I'm so overwhelmed by the inaccuracy of the OP I don't even know where to start, but I'll try my best.

First of all, I don't know what you mean by "Seouls are the most reliably pleasing" so I'll just have to give you a pass on that one.

"There is little tint shift from one led to the next..." That's why the emitters come in bins. The competion, XR-Es and Rebels, also have "little" tint shift from one led to the next when they're in the same bin. However, Seouls do have a well recorded problem in tint shifting when taking high currents, as the cool, cool white turns into angry blue...

"The beam has a beautiful, clean transition from spot to fill..." Again, I don't know what you mean by fill, but if you're refering to the beam quality of a particular flashlight in terms of its spread from the beam's spot to its spill, then you should have lurked around some more from your 2 years already spent in CPF and realized that what you refer to as Seoul's beautiful and clean beam is the product of a flashlight's reflector design, and has nothing to do with the emitter as the beam can be altered in virtually ANY way the flashlight maker wants to by altering the reflector.

"...and they don't have the ringyness problems exhibited by Crees..." See point above about reflector design.

"Also, Seouls are great for upgrades from Luxeons using existing reflectors" made for Luxeon products in the first place, one such as the Rebel?

"Lots of complaints here lately about the Rebels...troubling that multi-mode lights show big shifts in color temperature, and thus tint, from low to high. No such problems with Seouls."
Seoul's P4 demonstrate the most furious and abrupt shift in tint (that angry, angry blue) when driven by high currents. It requires IMPECCABLE heatsink at higher currents.

Seriously, man, when you post such factually incorrect information in the forum, you run the risk of looking like a troll for the company you're cozying up to.

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Saved for posterity.

LightScene said:

I have a Seoul modded L0P and it's tint doesn't shift from high to low.
I also have a Lumapower F1 with a Seoul and it has the smoothest beam of any light I've owned, and there have been quite a few.

I agree with the OP that the Seoul has a much smoother beam pattern than the Cree, and it's NOT because of the reflector. Nevertheless, I love the way the Cree throws, and a nice throw puts a smile on my face.

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I'm glad you made that point. My thoughts exactly. It's not that the CREE doesn't throw well, it's terrific. But, to get the very best throw, you've got to go with the smooth reflector. The orangepeel reflector, which is good for beam smoothing, gives up a bit in that area, of course.

Interesting OP.

I have one Seoul light. The tint is horrible. It is a very sick pea-green color. I find it almost unusable.

I have one Rebel. Love the tint. Very white.

Go figure.

LightScene said:

I agree with the OP that the Seoul has a much smoother beam pattern than the Cree, and it's NOT because of the reflector.

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Really? Since when do emitter have a "beam pattern?" Seoul's P4 emits its light in a lambertian manner, rather similiar to the Luxeons of yesteryear. The beam pattern you're refering to is the direct result of the reflector design. If the maker of a particular flashlight wishes, he can easily make the beam pattern of a Seoul P4 equipped light full of rings, and even holes, by botching up the reflector; conversely, the maker a particular flashlight equipped with a XR-E can make its beam buttery smooth by using the appropriate reflector design as well.

Any other misconceptions we want to throw out here as facts to confuse our fellow members?

onthebeam said:

I'd sure welcome that. I went and looked at the posting history of our intense contributor above and he seems to like to make a habit of this sort of thing. If it's best to close this one, I'll still hope to find a way of trying to learn what might be next down the road for Seouls.

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Are you serious man? Instead of editing your original post to correct the mistakes you've posted as facts (I'm going to assume the mistakes and exaggeration came out of ignorance, and that you're not trying to pull off a hit job for Seoul) or answering the corrections I've brought up, you went and checked on my previous posts so as to ignore the very issue you brought up by opening this thread???

Please, by all means, notify the moderators. I've been very polite with you considering your baiting/trollish topic for this thread.
"Have Rebel problems let you down? What's next for Seoul?"
That's a drive by shooting, man.

This thread wasn't really intended to be about supremacy between various LED companies, and certainly not about one upsmanship. Really, the intent is for sharing by the (usually) wonderful and kind-spirited community here. I happen to like Seoul lights since I've never had a bad one and have, happily, had terrific clean whites and impressive brightness from each I've owned.

I also have two Rebel lights I'm also very fond of and have written positive mini-reviews about, one Fenix and one Ultrafire. Happily, I haven't experienced the tint shift problems in the multi-mode Rebels like many folks have reported upon in various CPF threads. I've had two Crees, both Jetbeams. Each had no problems with the emitter itself but one had typical switching irregularities experienced by countless users (the new CL-E 2.0 has solved this by moving the mode changing to the clicky).The other had a misaligned reflector that was no reflection on the led itself. I'm glad that Jetbeam CL-Es have orangepeel reflectors since Cree "ringyness" is comonplace. People have also complained about ringy beams in the first version of the Ultrafire Rebel EM-R1 123 light but the company has thankfully replaced the smooth reflector with a textured one for this and a similar model.

My Fenix L1T 2.0 Rebel only has two modes and I've had no tint shifting problems, although, as many here have reported, its a quite warm tint, far warmer than any of the Seouls I've had. Also, my Ultrafire Rebel has five modes and I haven't experienced a problem with tint shifting with this one either. Yet, many others have with recently released Rebel lights. Two examples would be the inexpensive MTE multi-mode Rebel light. Their Seoul version of a very similar design hasn't received those sorts of criticisms. Also, the recent Fenix Rebel line of lights that are controlled at the clickie have had plenty of folks here note the color shifts.

We all know there are variances in LEDS, even within sorted batches. I've been fortunate or just plain lucky with the Seouls, I suppose. From several comments in this thread, I'm not the only Seoul fan out there and I simply wanted to find out what's next in the evolution of these. I like them, so please, go ahead and shoot me!

I think MOST of us would certainly find no reason for tirades and mean spiritedness here. As most of us know, otherwise meaningful comments delivered with a "sledgehammer" often have a less positive effect than those with a "feather." For the record, I have no relationship with ANY company involving flashlights, or flashlight technology. I'm a flashlight buff who happens to like and enjoy using the Seoul flashlights I've purchased (and plenty of Lux 3s, Rebels and Crees, too).

Some folks just like the smell of their own farts..........mmmmmmmmmmm thats good:green: