Buying advice: floody incan for a hiker

Hi. Long time lurker first time poster. Title says it all. Not sure whether this should be in headlamp or incan forum but here goes. The light will be used for short night hikes in thick and often slippery and difficult terrain.

Requirements:

incan - I have an LED headlamp and it's nice around the house or at camp but the quality of light just isn't that great for hiking. Everything looks flat and unnatural.

long-use bulb - Though the bulb life of incans seems quite literally a thousand times shorter than LED, that's not what I mean. I would like a bulb that can be kept on constantly.

usable ultrawide spill - I'd also like to be able to see the ground around my feet (brighter spill and dimmer throw is better for me than the opposite). Maybe a special reflector for more downward spill is out there seeing as how I don't intend to be lighting the sky or treetops.

some throw - seeing the path ahead is important so bare bulb won't cut it.

readily available - meaning no custom one-offs or waiting lists. Mixing and matching heads and bodies is fine.

fairly lightweight - because I have to carry it and wear it on my head (not a helmet).

can accept spare batteries - the hikes typically around four or five days long so I need a light that can take batteries, preferably rechargeables. Something that needs to be plugged in to be recharged obviously is out of the picture

splashproof - most lights are like this these days but this will be used outdoors. Shelf queens need not apply.

reliable - Doesn't have to be SureFire, but I don't want an Ultrafire.

battery low indication - I want maybe a minute or two warning even if it's just bulb dimming.

This list, I think, is not really a tall order except for the usable super wide spill and dimming shutoff.

Optional:

runtime of two hours - that is all I need for these night hikes although I will carry spares so runtime can be as short as half an hour I suppose.

external battery pack - would be nice to keep the weight off my head.

weaponlight - which for me means 1" or less body diameter and ability to accept a remote switch. Would be nice to save money and have a light do double duty.

Possible ideas:

Bike lights are made for good peripheral vision as well as distance and they often have external battery packs so maybe something along those lines.

Dual headlamps, one for throw and one for spill.

A diffuser would maybe bring some borderline wide-spilling lights into the ultrawide I can see my feet outdoors easily category.

Jackstrap/Niteize/Headband with velcro mounted flashlight.

Looking at the incans on the 21-light comparison, the Streamlight Scorpion TL3 seems to be the floodiest (look at the bottom left of the photo and you will see it is not in shadow, unlike the others). The Scorpion seems to be known as a thrower though which might be the case outdoors.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173535

Rant:

There has to be some company out there that makes a multi-LED warm tint headlamp so I can get multi-levels, better runtimes, brightness, and reliability. Although the Rebel looks warmer than the Cree I had in my headlamp I don't think it will be enough for my purposes.

It would be nice if someone could, pun intended, pick up the torch from Quickbeam and continue flashlightreviews.com and add spill and hotspot angle data. If a light had 130 degree spill, then I'd only have to angle the light 30 degrees down to see the ground around my feet.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your expertise. Maybe Paul in Maryland could weigh in as he seems to like floody incans and has tried the Wolf-Eyes drop-ins. But all suggestions are welcome ... so, any ideas?

:welcome:

How about a ROP mod with a battery pack? Hotspot has good throw and the spill also seems pretty powerful.

I'm guessing a LED thrower like the Dereelignt DBS won't do?

LED Museum does emission patterns. Also, to answer your other question, the multi-led headlamps use 5mm LED's which are notoriously blue. Modern high output LED's, especially the Rebel and others, are much warmer than what you probably have experience with.

You might want to take a walk over to Walmart and peak at the Rayovac Sportsman Extreme headlamp. Has high output (kinda, not the best out there), rotating diffuser, dim flood light, or even red LED's for preserving night vision. Might make a good backup. If you don't like it, just take it back.

http://www.rayovac.com/flashlight/se1whlt-b.shtml

Also, you may want to look at the headlamps subforum.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=6

Princeton Tec, Pelican, and Streamlight make good, inexpensive incandescents. My suggestion is a SureFire E2E with the low output bulb and a diffuser cap.

Marduke: Thanks but I looked at the Rebel and it still has that flat LED look. So no LEDs. The Rayovac's diffuser looks interesting ... hopefully it won't melt in an incan.

Gunner12: The ROP is probably a bit more weight than I want on my head and is a bit too custom for me although if you know someone who can do a battery pack for it ... maybe that would be worth it! A diffuser and a headlamp mount would seal the deal. The DBS/Tiablo don't have enough spill for the sort of hiking I do (not to mention being LED).

Keygrip: I'll have to check out those companies' offerings. Or maybe look specifically at the diffusers available.

Why I want an incan:

The thread "LED's that look like incandescent"
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2256916

and the comments regarding LED vs. incans outdoors in this thread "I've tried to warm of to LED, but I keep returning to incan"

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/155958

pretty much sum up my personal experience.

I used an LED headlamp that a friend modded with a Cree X-RE. But I noticed that it did not light up the area around my boots that well (although throw was ok) and everything was quite a bit more indistinct than in daytime which made footing difficult.

If you want usable, wide spill from an incan, it will have to be pretty powerful and that quickly translates into heavy, if you want good runtime too.

How about the Silva 478 headlamp? I don't have one, but I've heard good things about it and it seems to fill most of your requirements. As an extra handy feature, it has two bulbs so you can vary the power level.

I think you need both incandescent and LED.

Your a hiker, hiking around, in the evening, holding a incan Flashlight enjoying nature. You lose a step, stumble on a rock etc and the Flashlight falls from your hand... POOF! goes the lamp. Unless you had a shock iso bezel, its usually over for the ican. Even with a lanyard or holding it... any sudden smack on a tree or a hard surface will kill an incan.

That is why I write both. LED for walking should you hit or drop it and the incan when you stop and want to take in the natural colors nature has to offer.

Njoy...

The stock incan with the brightest, widest flood may be the Wolf Eyes M300. And it's compact.

The incan with the brightest, widest flood that I've used is a FiveMega 3x18650 Stinger Mod with axial bulb. But it's long, and a bipin bulb isn't ideal if you drop it.

Even a Surefire P91 isn't wide enough at 2 paces. Your diffuser idea sounds good, but with a broad diffuser like a Surefire BeamShaper, you'll need at least 300 torch-lumens to make it sufficiently bright. You're looking at a 2x18650 Leef.

I'm lucky: I live where there's no urban washout. So to walk between home and bus at dawn and dusk, I get by with a 1-cell Wolf Eyes Sniper and a defocused 7.5W DealExtreme lamp.

The Princeton Tec Predator Pro (or Vortec) may suit your needs. It is like a Tec-40 for your head.

Incan - Yes.

long-use bulb - The halogen bulb is rated for 30 hours, roughly twice the rated life of a typical krypton bulb.

usable ultrawide spill - The textured reflector provides a VERY wide spill, yet maintains a somewhat concentrated spot. The beam is not "surefire clean" but it is still pretty darn good. However, the beam is more clean with a KPR113.

some throw - No problem.

readily available - Yes...I think.

fairly lightweight - This is not the lightest headlamp...lithiums would help (but be expensive). I wonder if it may feel front-heavy, since the bats are on the front.

can accept spare batteries - The light should be fine with rechargeables. However, I know that the older Tec-40s required a chunk of foil in the bottom, as the tail contacts were too flat to contact some rechargeables.

splashproof - Yup. Oddly, it appears that the Predator is very water resistant, wheras the Tec-40 is waterproof. Must be a difference in battery compartment?

reliable - Absolutely. My family has a small fleet of Tec-40s. They have been everywhere, and there has not been a single failure.

battery low indication - I want maybe a minute or two warning even if it's just bulb dimming: Hmm...I am not completely sure about this. I believe with alkalines, there is a slow decline in output, and a much more rapid decline at the end, over a few minutes.

Hello Traumerei,

Welcome to posting on CPF.

When I am in similar conditions, I use my Princeton Tec Yukon Extreme.

I believe there is a review in the reviews section.

Tom

Valolammas: The Silvas sound pretty good but they don't seem to be sold in the US. I did see some New Zealand dealers though which might work for me. Not really any reviews or beamshots on CPF but Google tells me they (and Mila brand lights) are used a lot by night orienteering folks. Anyone have experience with these?

Qarawol: I'll be bringing my Cree X-RE headlamp as backup and for the flashlight I'd find a good head mount solution. I don't think I'd be able to hike properly without one!

Paul: Thanks for the reply. The M300. Wow, just looked that up! I don't know if I'll need that much light as there is no light pollution where I hike but that's moving up the list. It surprised me to hear that 300 torch lumens would be pretty much necessary with a diffuser ... there goes my idea to diffuse a M90 Rattlesnake with default 11w bulb. 93 min runtime is pretty nice! But then again, some Zebralight Q5 owners say their light isn't bright enough for hiking because it is too diffuse.

Silverfox & PedalinBob: Good to hear about these lights. Guess I'm going to have to hit REI and try these Princeton headlamps.

Thanks for the input everyone!

traumerei said:

Valolammas: The Silvas sound pretty good but they don't seem to be sold in the US. I did see some New Zealand dealers though which might work for me. Not really any reviews or beamshots on CPF but Google tells me they (and Mila brand lights) are used a lot by night orienteering folks. Anyone have experience with these?

Click to expand...

Sorry, forgot about that, as sometimes it seems the internet has made everything available almost anywhere. I've seen lots of Brunton stuff that looks identical to Silvas, but I just checked Brunton's site and they only have LED headlamps (which do appear to be the same as Silva's LED headlamps, btw).

We had a thread just a while ago, where someone had a Silva. Let me check... Found it, see here, if interested.

How about a small 2 cell Mag running some Lithium Ion rechargables and a Krypton bulb made for a 5 or 6 cell Mag? That would be pretty cheap. Ofcourse you could put on a UCL lens and even add a stipled reflector for a better beam and more flood.

I've got a 2C with the MagRing that lets you add a lanyard and use 2 x 18650 batteries. So that can run as high as 8.4V, so if you get a Krypton bulb for a 5 or 6 cell light, that would work well. Using a 2D light you wouldn't need the MagRing. I havn't tried it, but have read about it. I may try it though.

I'm really surprised that you really want that much light for a night hike. Mostly I hear that night hikers only want around 0.5-5 lumens for night hiking so you can see more than just what your flashlight illuminates.

Dreyfus: Any ideas about runtimes?

Marduke: My requirements did not mention lumen requirements. I only need something with enough flood so I don't have to move my head constantly to light up my footing and some of the path ahead.

I've not tried hiking with night-adapted eyes an a 0.5 to 5 lumen lamp but I don't think it would be enough. Here's a review of the floody Zebralight LED which is around 60 lumens on high:

"have used the ZL over the weekend on a tramping (hiking trip) including 3 1/2 hr night tramp ... the ZL was not really for night hiking ... When the gooing got rough (ie no track at all, climbing up and over a ridgeline) the ZL didn't cut the mustard."

Maybe I'll try to fashion a reflector that can take the wasted top spill and bring it around my feet.