Newbie's Question RE: LED's

Hi folks. I've done a search but cannot find an answer to my question... so..

I've used a streamlight scorpion for years. Love it, and never gave a thought to LED's as I presumed they were very weak etc... Now all of a sudden, several guys at work are carrying LED Lenser flashlights, and they seem even brighter than my SL.

The obvious advantage to an LED light is that it will never blow a bulb, but what else???
I'm, thinking of changing to a LED Lenser model 7438 3x AAA. It's braned over here as either the Hocus Focus or Police Tech. Whats the battery life like is my main question. My SL runs for about an hour on a set of Surefine CR123's. How long approx. will the LED run on the 3x AAA's??

I'm buying my 123's online for pretty cheap, so I'm basically wondering if the pro's of an LED light outweigh the cost of the swap. Have they started to beat traditional lights like my SL hand down.

Help appreciated folks...

What do you need the light for and what are you looking for (more specifics)?

Many good LED lights today can out throw and out lumen the Scorpion. If all you want is to beat your stinger in those categories, this light should be able to do it.

The LED Lenser can have double the output if you swap in one of the newer LEDs. I think it might run an hour on good NiMh AAA batteries.

The newer LEDs, the Cree XR-E P4-R2 bin, Seoul P4 U bin, and the Luxeon Rebel 100 and new K2(which is not used in any light that I know of) are twice or more efficient then the Luxeon I, III, V and K2 LEDs. So for the same power, the will produce twice or more light. Example, the Cree XR-E P4 at 350 mA current will out lumen most Luxeon IIIs at 1000 mA current.

The Dereelight Cl1H can use 2 CR123s and should out throw and out lumen both lights(Scorpion and the Led Lenser). If you aren't using the light ins critical situations, some Fenix lights might also work, like the P3D-CE Q5(8% off coupon at Fenix Store is "CPF8").

:welcome:

I'm in law enforcement so I need the light for most anything that goes with that. I find the scorpion a little annoying when prolonged useage is necessary like for searching somewhere, as the batteries can die at bad times.

LED Lenser claim 50 hours burn time from the 7438, yet guys at work say it eats AAA's?? This choice is going to be made on battery life... is a LED (generally) more economical with batteries?

Oh, I havent much choice available where I live, so it's gonna boil down to the scorpion or the Lenser.

Robotack said:

Help appreciated folks...

Click to expand...

I've generally not have had good results with the company that makes the Hokus Focus. Another CPFer, FlashCrazy sells modified versions of the Hokus Focus, with an ever brighter Seoul P4 LED in the light. But his sales thread shows he's sold out, and won't have anymore until mid Jan.

I suggest waiting. In America, the light is $50. FlashCrazy will sell you the light + upgrade for $69. Easily the best bargain for a custom modded light out there.

As far as 123's go.... Never use cheap, made in China 123 cells!!

(The last thing any of us want is to read yet another thread about such cells exploding inside of flashlights. I recommend Surefire or Duracell 123s).

Robotack said:

Oh, I havent much choice available where I live, so it's gonna boil down to the scorpion or the Lenser.

Click to expand...

Although the output is a bit less, consider getting the LED version of the Scorpion. Longer runtime. I have the same LED module in my SL TL-2 LED light. While I own more powerful LED lights, I do sometimes still carry my TL-2 and rely on it as my main light.

"LED Lenser claim 50 hours burn time from the 7438, yet guys at work say it eats AAA's?? This choice is going to be made on battery life... is a LED (generally) more economical with batteries?"

This is the question I'm really looking to answer please... Am I likely to get this 50 hrs battery life they claim?

Well, the light will run 50 hours but anytime after an hour will give you drastically reduced output. At 50 hours, the LED will probably be just glowing. LED Lenser has been known to give overblown runtime figures and have products not worth the money. The Lenser is one of their better products.

I would go for another light if you plan on using it on duty.

I'm not sure how well the Dereelight works as a duty light but it is a great light form what I've heard. Just run recalrgeable batteries in it and you won't have to worry about batteries. Actually, their brightest module, the 2SD will only work with a 3.7v battery(Usually a 18650).

This is all both interesting and annoying at the same time! Up to today I thought Lenser, Streamlight, Mag Lite and Surefire were the only good torch manufactures.

In fact what prompted me to consider an LED light was searching a field a few weeks ago, a new guy had a LED Lenser V2 I think. It's a 3x C cell LED and the output and clarity was excellent and completely washed out my SL!

I believe on paper the output is the same, but the whitness and perfect spot circle of these LED's are impressing me... Only thing is, the Bianchi pouch on my duty belt is designed for a SL scorpion or Surefine G2 or 6P.

Hey my partner wants to swap her Surefire G2 for a Lenser Hokus Focus... good / bad idea?

Robotack said:

This is the question I'm really looking to answer please... Am I likely to get this 50 hrs battery life they claim?

Click to expand...

No.

The company that makes that light is known for exaggerated runtimes.

I would recommend the Lumapower M3 Transformer as it can be configured to use cheap or rechargeable 1xAA or 2xAA or 1xCR123A or rechrageable 1xR123. with any battery configuration it will be brighter & last way longer than the SL Scorpion plus it has different light settings for even longer runtime yet still be brighter than the SL Scorpion.
In addition you can use 1 out of 4 reflectors and with the deep reflectors out-throw the SL and still have focusability.

In fact most Lumapower flashlights could be interesting for you. I dont have any of their flashlights but many people seem to praise them.

If you toss out a few more possible alternatives, we could help you better. Is Surefire a brand you are willing to consider?

As far as LED models go, I own an L4 and an L5 model. I would highly recommend either one. Surefire also sells the 6PL and G2L. These are less expensive LED lights, compared to Surefire's other LED models. They put out a very good amount of light and are brighter than an SL inca Scorpion or the inca versions of the 6P and G2. (If you get the G2L. Make sure it's one of the newer versions with an aluminum head).

I'd definitely go for a 6PL or G2L if I was in your shoes. Brighter than your inca SL Scorpion, no bulbs to blow, and increased runtime. (Although the 11 - 12 hour runtime on these lights is exaggerated). Both models use Seoul P4 LEDs.

Amonra said:

I would recommend the Lumapower M3 Transformer as it can be configured to use cheap or rechargeable 1xAA or 2xAA or 1xCR123A or rechrageable 1xR123. with any battery configuration it will be brighter & last way longer than the SL Scorpion plus it has different light settings for even longer runtime yet still be brighter than the SL Scorpion.
In addition you can use 1 out of 4 reflectors and with the deep reflectors out-throw the SL and still have focusability.

In fact most Lumapower flashlights could be interesting for you. I dont have any of their flashlights but many people seem to praise them.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that he's looking for a duty light. The Lumapower M3 wouldn't be a good choice with its multi-modes.

Surfire G2 with an Led is great....
High power Led's will eat batteries just as Incan's will. For duty work- you probably want a good quality Light. Consider Lumapower, Wolf Eyes, Tiablo, Deerelight, Olight, Surefire, Fenix

Check out the dealers on this site.
http://www.batteryjunction.com/ is one.
Also PTS...
several other good guys too.

Here is a great model:http://www.batteryjunction.com/special-m1-q5-black.html

Yes Surefire is available here. I never realised there was LED versions of the G2 and 6p... Would they offer the same output as there incan. brothers? I see they claim 80 lumens v 65 for the incan. I wonder is this another exaggeration?

I like the variable focus on the scorpion and the dual function switch. I hate the G2's thing that you have to twist the head for constant-on.

Would you guys generally rate the LED surefire's over the LED SL scorpion?

Also, out of interest. I presume the surefire LED G2 etc use CR123's making them 6v. Does that generally mean a brighter light than say a Lenser running 3x AAA 1.5v?

Robotack said:

Yes Surefire is available here. I never realised there was LED versions of the G2 and 6p... Would they offer the same output as there incan. brothers? I see they claim 80 lumens v 65 for the incan. I wonder is this another exaggeration?

I like the variable focus on the scorpion and the dual function switch. I hate the G2's thing that you have to twist the head for constant-on.

Would you guys generally rate the LED surefire's over the LED SL scorpion?

Click to expand...

No exaggeration when it comes to output. Surefire is but a handful of companies that measures lumen output where it counts.... Out the front of the light, rather than at the emitter. Emitter lumens are always higher than those measured out the front. A good rule of thumb is to subtract 1/3 from the claimed lumen output that many companies give. Pelican, Surefire, and PentagonLights all measure lumens out the front. With Surefire being the most conservative. That 65 lumens from a 6P or G2 is definitely 65 lumens, and possibly a bit more. So is the 80 lumens from a 6PL or G2L. Output on Surefire models is definitely not exaggerated.

I believe the LED versions of the 6P and G2 have the switches you hate. But to be honest, some have found those switches to be more reliable than the clickies that Surefire offers. Heard no complaints about the clickie on the inca SL Scorpion. Still, I have 4 different Surefire models with clickies. All are reliable on mine. The Surefire L4 and L5 models come with clickies.

No contest who uses a brighter, better LED. Even Surefire's less expensive LED models are better. The LED version of the Scorpion puts out 47 lumens. And unfortunately, Streamlight measures their output at the emitter. So you are getting less than 47 actual lumens. A 6PL or G2L from Surefire is 80 lumens, possibly a bit more.

Now keep in mind that I'm not a fan of some of Surefire's business practices. But I can't deny that they make some of the best quality lights on the planet.

Check out Surefire's site....
www.surefire.com

Robotack said:

Also, out of interest. I presume the surefire LED G2 etc use CR123's making them 6v. Does that generally mean a brighter light than say a Lenser running 3x AAA 1.5v?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Robotack,

With regards to your partner - have your partner buy a SureFire P60L LED module. At most, it will be 39 bucks, and can be a few dollars less if some prudent shopping is done.

I've done this conversion on all of my SureFire's, and it's a worthwhile upgrade - I get a decent corona of sidespill, and a really bright hot spot to light up a subject.

The 80 Lumens of rating is pretty much on target. There's been some charts showing you get a bit more with fresh batteries - slightly above 90. In your partner's G2, the light will settle down to 65 lumens due to it's being an all polymer, which is good - it'll give far more runtime.

For you - I'd highly consider getting a SF G2L. It's lighter, has the metal head for better heat sinking, and will already fit your duty belt. And - it's way better than any Streamlight. My SureFire E1L with KL1 head and 16340's will be brighter than the Streamlight Stingers.

Just my .02 from an ex-LEO academy instructor....

-Steve

"In your partner's G2, the light will settle down to 65 lumens due to it's being an all polymer, which is good - it'll give far more runtime."...........................................................................

I don't get you... does the fact that it's polymer construction make it emit less light / better run time?

Thanks for all the input by the way guys.

Here's my take on SureFire in general.

They aren't the totally brightest flashlights on the planet - others can be brighter.

They aren't the cheapest flashlight on the planet - others are cheaper.

However, I've trusted my life to SureFire's on duty. Just like how I trust my Glocks (and my backup Kahr's and S&W's) to go bang when I pull the trigger, I implicitly trust my SureFires to turn on and be effective when I pull it out and hit the switch. I carry a SureFire as an EDC light because it works - every time, all the time. One 6P I have looks like it's gone through a torture chamber - and it works just as well as when I first bought it.

This is your life you're talking about. SureFire gives you an effective tool that will do the job when you want it to.

I don't necessarily like their prices, nor do I like their marketing. But their stuff works. And when the stress level goes up - I want a SureFire with me.

-Steve

The polymer body does not sink heat as well as aluminum, so SureFire designed the circuit to reduce power to the LED in order to prevent damage.