What am I missing with Surefire?

Hi all,

Another stupid question no doubt!

I have been on the Surefire.com site and as far as I can see they don't seem to sell any really bright LED lights? They all seem to be well under 200 lumens, most closer to 100.

I have a TK11 R2 but use it mainly at work so am looking to get something similar, thought I would try a Surefire...

Going to get a Raw NS too but want something more the TK11 size/throw.

So what am I missing? Or are Surefire's so popular because of build quality etc alone? :shrug:

Cheers.

Part of their price is because you are buying an American made product. Another reason is their quality.

Their lights may be rated lower than other lights, but Surefire measurers their lumens from the front of the light, not at the bulb like other companies do.

Ferret said:

Their lights may be rated lower than other lights, but Surefire measurers their lumens from the front of the light, not at the bulb like other companies do.

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Ah, so how does my Fenix TK11 R2 compare then?

Just seems to me that this is a better option than anything on offer from Surefire. When looking at LEDs anyway.

Buying an American product has huge appeal to me over anything from China for example, but that said I would prefer to find something made in the UK (Lummi aside) to buy, if such a thing existed!

uknewbie said:

Ah, so how does my Fenix TK11 R2 compare then?

Just seems to me that this is a better option than anything on offer from Surefire. When looking at LEDs anyway.

Buying an American product has huge appeal to me over anything from China for example, but that said I would prefer to find something made in the UK (Lummi aside) to buy, if such a thing existed!

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I have a Surefire E2DL and the TK11 R2 (not to mention the Olight M20 Warrior R2).

The E2DL throws just as far as the TK11 R2 (If not farther). But it doesn't have as much spill, pretty much all throw. But no wasy is the TK11 R2 double the lumens of the Surefire.

Of my two cell CR123 lights, my E2DL is by far my favorite. It just feels better made, I really like the beam, it's not too thick. Also, it's finish doesn't chip like the others do (not so much on the TK11 but the Olight chips easily). Also, the clip on the E2DL is real tough.

One reason to go with the TK11 (or others) is battery options. You can use quite a lot of different batteries with these lights and your pretty much stuck with CR123's in the Surefire (I use RCR's in mine, but this isn't supported).

uknewbie said:

Hi all,

Another stupid question no doubt!

I have been on the Surefire.com site and as far as I can see they don't seem to sell any really bright LED lights? They all seem to be well under 200 lumens, most closer to 100.

I have a TK11 R2 but use it mainly at work so am looking to get something similar, thought I would try a Surefire...

Going to get a Raw NS too but want something more the TK11 size/throw.

So what am I missing? Or are Surefire's so popular because of build quality etc alone? :shrug:

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Besides the quality, USA made, etc... It's because 60 Surefire lumens = 400 Chinese lumens.

foxtrot29 said:

Besides the quality, USA made, etc... It's because 60 Surefire lumens = 400 Chinese lumens.

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Yeah totally agree. I always assume that just about all information on products from China is lies.

However, I was making the comparison between another reputable brand in my Fenix, who surely don't lie about these numbers like that?

Not trying to start a whole Fenix vs Surefire thing here by the way, I actually want to but a Surefire, just doesn't seem as appealling as my Fenix did.

Also with Surefire you have an unconditional warranty on the light. I have had small parts like clips break even after I owned the light for 3 years they still will send you a replacment clip. I also bought a weapon light off of ebay once. I had issues when I received it and I called Surefire and sent it off to them. They completley refurbed the light. They even updated it to the type with the cutoff switch and replaced the low power walking lights on it. Not only build quality but they stand behind there product very firmly no questions asked. With the Fenix or any other decent flashlight company I have only scene one year warranties past that you break you pay. Those companies still porvide a decent product at a very good price and I use and even love the fenix lights and Nitecores but when I want something that I will own and use and depend on for years to come I always go for Surefire. Sorry for the long post but man Surefire is the Best... (and the flaming begins)

like sardian said... ive own both the TK11 and the E2DL... for me, with the optic in the surefire, its evenly on par with the tk11, even brighter to my eyes if you use RCR's. And above all like others will say on here, Surefire measures their lumens as out the front (and often extremely underrated) while other manufacturers are claim emmitter lumens that are often highly highly exaggerated. I know that 4sevens offers a lifetime warranty now on the fenix brand he carries, and i think thats great, but 4sevens is a dealer and not a manufacturer. A lifetime warranty from a manufacturer is quite different in my opinion to a lifetime warranty offered by a dealer. If you have any doubts, head to a store that sells surefire and take the E2DL out for a spin (use the stores washroom) to check out the light. youll be amazed.

if you ask anyone on the forum, many many will tell you that if they could go back in time, they would have steered clear of lower priced chinese stuff and bought it right the first time.
for me: I would have bought and E2DL, an L4, as well as a Novatac 120., instead of buying all kinds of other lights which "didn't quite do it" for one reason or another.

(I did have good luck with Fenix, however, my wife stole my Fenix P1D-CE.)

surefire is an excellent product with great warranty and support.
plus, you can "lego" (variety of heads, bodies, tailcaps, etc).
they're da shiz-nit.

Well The TK-11 is one heck of a good light even in the Q5 version I have. The SF stuff is very well made, and they do have one of the best, if not the best, no nonsense Warranties. It's not free, or cheap, though, it's build into the price, and they have clicky switches fail like everyone else. Depending on your usage though, it could very well be worth it.

It seems I'd also recommend the E2DL, under actual usage conditions I don't notice much of a difference between the E2DL and the TK-11 Q5. Not that they are the same but in the lighting I use them I don't often need the extra spill of the TK-11, but I like it. The E2DL kicks because it is so much smaller. The TK-11 is still loved though because I run it on 18650 power (the best), and the ED2L on CR123A primaries (although there are unofficial options here).

If you can handle one level I really like the handling of the C2-HA, but you have to add an Malkoff dropin or other to the mix to make it compete with the TK-11.

So watch for price breaks and give one a try.

uknewbie said:

Yeah totally agree. I always assume that just about all information on products from China is lies.

However, I was making the comparison between another reputable brand in my Fenix, who surely don't lie about these numbers like that?

Not trying to start a whole Fenix vs Surefire thing here by the way, I actually want to but a Surefire, just doesn't seem as appealling as my Fenix did.

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It's not necessarily lies (although in many cases it is). It's more about how they measure the output -- and yes, Fenix is included, but they do make a good light.

They fenix numbers are actually not in question here, it's that Surefire totally underrates the E2DL, most are in the 180-200 OTF lumen range. I assume that due to their high volume military contracts, they like to keep their options open, so they advertise the minimum amount of lumens you can expect from their lights. If for reasons of limited supply they need to use a lower brightness LED, they can do so without worrying about changing the specs.

Check out these calibrated, lab integrating sphere readings for the e2dl (in purple near the top)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/211402

A lot of people explain the high prices by the fact they're made in the US and have a great warranty, and that does explain some of the price. However, where they're made is irrelavent to me and so is the warranty, yet I still feel the two I have were worth every penny, and I look forward to adding one or two more.

To answer your original question, I'm not sure you're actually missing anything. If your Fenix gets it's job done and you're confident it's tough enough for all your needs etc etc, where's the percentage in spending 3 or 4 times the amount on a Surefire? For such as the military I guess it makes sense to pay whatever it costs to have the best. For people like me it's more the pleasure of feeling I have the best (which I do everytime I use one), because it's not like I don't have confidence in some of the less expensive brands. Fortunately I don't have the same approach to everything as I do to flashlights or I'd be living on pot noodles.

It is kinda strange how Surefire seems to be late to all the games. Took them a long time to offer led lamps and by the time they did there were much brighter ones available. You would think that they would already have some of the high power Crees in their lights. A lot of members on here buy Surefire for the quality of their lights and then put $10.00 led's in them to take advantage of modern tech. Even Dorcy, Energizer and Rayovac seem to be a little quicker to the punch.

foxtrot29 said:

Besides the quality, USA made, etc... It's because 60 Surefire lumens = 400 Chinese lumens.

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My Fenix TK11 (225 lumens) is easily brighter than the P61 in my SF M2 (120 lumens). Not all Made in China lights are bad. Just think of Fenix, Jetbeam, Tiablo and Eagletac. Surefire is not exactly better than these lights in all aspects. Take the use of rechargeable batteries for example. How many Surefires accept rechargeables? It that a business strategy to force consumers to buy their primaries? Are Surefires environmentally friendly when after every 20 minutes or 1 hour you have to discard the depleted batteries and put in new ones? One wonders what happens to all the used CR123s in Afghanistan and Iraq. And the SF M6 uses 6 CR123s. After every 20 minutes the soldier has to spend time to change 6 batteries. Maybe that is time enough for the Taliban and Al Qaeda b******s to escape. The best flashlight? The Gladius. So easy to change brightness, modes and all with one hand. I have been using Ultrafire RCR123s in my Gladius for more than a year. The good thing about Surefire is the built quality. Surefires are truly built to last. I have dropped my 6PD on ship decks many times and it just kept working. But of course, to get a useful light I had to put in a Dereelight R2 dropin with a 17670 battery.

Cheers to all. Thanks to this forum for the tonnes of information on flashlights.

The Surefire 6P is the "John M. Browning 1911" equivalent of flashlights. Meaning like the 1911 pistol, this flashlight has been dare I say the most widely copied, and can be built to anyone's personal desire.

The Surefire 6P, more specifically the P60 design has an endless amount of aftermarket drop-ins, hosts, bezels, tails, & parts you can purchase for it.

This truly is the last flashlight you will ever have to buy. As new technology comes to the table you can be damn sure someone somewhere will create the ability for it to be harnessed in your Surefire.

My 6P is so old it says Laser Products on the tailcap and it's still working like a champ!

Surefire 1xCR123 lights are top notch! Those TIR lens are awesome!

Federal LG said:

Those TIR lens are awesome!

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It just goes to show you the diversity of SF's R&D department, they are at the forefront, evolving and pushing the boundaries. I can't wait to see their offerings in 2-3 yrs from now.

sardian said:

I have a Surefire E2DL and the TK11 R2 (not to mention the Olight M20 Warrior R2).

The E2DL throws just as far as the TK11 R2 (If not farther). But it doesn't have as much spill, pretty much all throw. But no wasy is the TK11 R2 double the lumens of the Surefire.

Of my two cell CR123 lights, my E2DL is by far my favorite. It just feels better made, I really like the beam, it's not too thick. Also, it's finish doesn't chip like the others do (not so much on the TK11 but the Olight chips easily). Also, the clip on the E2DL is real tough.

One reason to go with the TK11 (or others) is battery options. You can use quite a lot of different batteries with these lights and your pretty much stuck with CR123's in the Surefire (I use RCR's in mine, but this isn't supported).

Click to expand...

i've taken both my Fenix and my Surefire out into the dark woods at night and into a clearing, and there is NO WAY the Surefire even comes close to the brightness of the TK11, let alone the throw. This is with surefire CR123's in both lights. The surefire is all flood, for about 70 feet, and the TK11 is hundreds of feet of throw, about 20 deg beam with sidespill.....

not knocking sF i like them (alot) but i'm kinda surprised at what you said about the e2dl beiing a thrower and brighter....:huh: