P60 P7 are great, but not as good as Maglight P7!!

Hi all,

The P60 P7 (1 IMR 18650 topped off) I have is incredibly bright. Needless to say If someone told me it is putting 700 plus lumens out the front I would agree. Especially since it makes 2.8~2.9 amps at the tail, but then I got the Maglight P7 which appears at least twice as bright.

I just got the Nailbeder made direct drive P7 Maglight 2D running on 3 NiMH cells. The amp draw at the tail with my cells at 1.4v each was 2.3~2.4amps. I used another set of cells that were only 1.3v and the amp draw at the tail was 2.7~. Aside of the P7 Maglight appearing twice as bright as the P60 P7 it held the 2.7~2.9amps for 2:02minutes and each cell(Tenergy 5000mAh) measured 1.25v each at the end of the 2:02 hour run.:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

I plan on running the cells down to 1v and get a runtime graph with amp draw plus pictures later on. I do not see why I am getting such great results so I will do it again while at work so I can monitor the light and take readings every 30 minutes.

My experience with the P7 Mag vs P60 P7 seems to good to be true. Are any of you P7 Mag light folks running NiMH getting similar results?

Note: My P60 MC-E direct drive from Gene Malkoff as tested by MrGman made slightly over 400 out the front warm. The theory is that there is not enough heatsinking to accomodate the P7 in such a small desgin like the P60. The Malkoff was pulling 4.2~4.5amps at the tail so in theory it should have been at least 1000 lumens (which was what Gene thought it would be too.)

When I said not as great, I meant lumen output wise. I still like the P60 P7 design becasue it is EDC compatible. At 300 to 400 out the front lumens for an EDC light it is more than acceptable. My point of reference was in making the P7 more efficient using a bigger hosts and enourmous heatsink like Maglight P7 builds and the Legion II.

bigchelis

You might be confusing lumen(total output) with lux(intensity of hotspot).

They should both have similar total output but the Maglite has a much larger reflector, which makes a narrower, more intense, and further throwing hotspot. The smaller reflector of the P60 type drop-ins give a pretty floody beam.

Gunner12 said:

You might be confusing lumen(total output) with lux(intensity of hotspot).

They should both have similar total output but the Maglite has a much larger reflector, which makes a narrower, more intense, and further throwing hotspot. The smaller reflector of the P60 type drop-ins give a pretty floody beam.

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The Maglight P7 with LOP reflector has more flood and throws in par with my R2 smooth reflector Surefire 6P. That means that it has around double the throw, but that may be due to the large reflector.

Also,
I did a ceiling bounce tests and the P7 Maglight makes the room look like I turned on the home lightbulb and that is with a ceiling bounce tests.

This is what I plan on doing for tests:
1. tail amp draw readings
2. cell voltage readings
3. ceiling bounce tests w/pictures
4. outdoor beamshoots w/pictures
5. Graph the readings and post pictues

Anything else that will help illustrate this?

Has more spill or a floodier beam pattern? I'm guessing more spill because the larger reflector would not provide a floodier beam unless it was heavily textured.

It's possible that the P7s used in the different lights are from a different flux bin. The less heatsinking of the Malkoff drop-in can also contribute to the lower output.

Which brand NiMh D cells are you using,and what is mAh rating?

Bill

Whoops, using 3 C NiMh's?

No offense, but this topic is confusing. Obviously a P7 in a Maglight with the larger reflector will have more throw and look brighter, even if it's putting out the same total lumens as a P7 in a P60 module. Does that make it better? It depends on what you want to use it for. If you want a lot of flood in a small package, a P60 set up is better. If you want more heat sinking, more throw, potentially longer run times, a P7 in a Mag is better.

You said you did a ceiling bounce with your P7 in a Mag, but you didn't mention how it compared to your P7 P60 doing a ceiling bounce.

Bullzeyebill said:

Which brand NiMh D cells are you using,and what is mAh rating?

Bill

Whoops, using 3 C NiMh's?

Click to expand...

It is the Tenergy 5000mAh.

WadeF said:

No offense, but this topic is confusing. Obviously a P7 in a Maglight with the larger reflector will have more throw and look brighter, even if it's putting out the same total lumens as a P7 in a P60 module. Does that make it better? It depends on what you want to use it for. If you want a lot of flood in a small package, a P60 set up is better. If you want more heat sinking, more throw, potentially longer run times, a P7 in a Mag is better.

You said you did a ceiling bounce with your P7 in a Mag, but you didn't mention how it compared to your P7 P60 doing a ceiling bounce.

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Good point. Which is why I still love the P60 P7 design. Keep in mind MrGman tested all my variants of the P7 P60 including the Malkoff P60 MC-E and they all made 340 to 480 lumens. No where near the 700 potential, due to what may be the lack of heatsinking. The Malkoff drop-ins had the best heatsinking in a P60 design; hence it gave the most Lumens 480 on turn on w/ no bezel. This is amazing output and the heatsinking of the Malkoff is 2nd to none, yet in a P60 design there is not enought heatsinking to allow the P7/MC-E to trully give it's full potential. MrGman is working with Gene to test this theory and hopefully he will post lumen readings of the regulated Malkoff MC-E and another Direct drive MC-E to prove this heatsinking theory right or wrong.

Also,
To the naked eye before MrGman tested the Malkoff MC-E direct drive at 4.5amps at the tail he said it is likely 700 lumens and It trully is bright, but with an AR glass and a bezel on warm it did 406 lumens out the front. All I am saying is we might have to all go to larger hosts if we want a true 700 plus lumens. I have my eyes on a Legion II for that, but this P7 Magbuild was easier on the wallet.

The Mag running a P7 with a good heatsink will show more lumens than the Malkoff P60 P7 even at same mA's to LED. It will run cooler, so less lumen loss due to heat.

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

The Mag running a P7 with a good heatsink will show more lumens than the Malkoff P60 P7 even at same mA's to LED. It will run cooler, so less lumen loss due to heat.

Bill

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Thanks Bill,
I knew it was not my eyes playing tricks on me. I just started the amp draw and cell voltage measurements and will try and update the post later with my graph and pictures.

bigchelis

I'm not sure, but isn't this the guy that helps MrGman with the lumen ratings?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2238339&postcount=64

He claims to have tested over 500 lumens with the Dereelight MC-E.

WadeF said:

I'm not sure, but isn't this the guy that helps MrGman with the lumen ratings?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2238339&postcount=64

He claims to have tested over 500 lumens with the Dereelight MC-E.

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Yes, he has his own IS. 12" I think. They compare results. Doesn't affect MrGman's work, I think.

Bill

The P60 P7s may not be as throwy as the mags, but I can fit a 6p running a Malkoff P7 in my pants pocket. It's a little harder to do with the maglites.:nana:

I have the Nailbender Direct Drive that drains batteries very fast and measures close to 3a draw but i also have a 2.4a regulated Dereelight. The Dereelight is nearly twice as bright and never gets as hot as the DD unless you use the DD with a single cell. So much energy goes into heat with DD but the Dereelight with exactly the same heat sinking gives me over 600 lumens. I am going to swap the MC-E emmitters over and see if the regulation is key.

electric sheep said:

I have the Nailbender Direct Drive that drains batteries very fast and measures close to 3a draw but i also have a 2.4a regulated Dereelight. The Dereelight is nearly twice as bright and never gets as hot as the DD unless you use the DD with a single cell. So much energy goes into heat with DD but the Dereelight with exactly the same heat sinking gives me over 600 lumens. I am going to swap the MC-E
emmitters over and see if the regulation is key.

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I think it is more like 500 lumens out the front.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...9&postcount=64
If I am not mistaken Dereelight used to make the 2.4amp draw and now only makes the 2.1amp draw version.

You could send it over to MrGman for testing. I want to purchase the Dereeligth MC-E P60 drop-in just for this test, but they no longer sell the 2.4amp draw version due to heat issues.


Will somebody with a Dereelight 1.2 or 1.4 amp MC-E please send it in for testing. I sent my 3 drop-ins so lets all contribute here. BTW, My Malkoff MC-E Direct Drive might have been hurt during the testing, but I would do it again if I had to for this community.

270winchester said:

The P60 P7s may not be as throwy as the mags, but I can fit a 6p running a Malkoff P7 in my pants pocket. It's a little harder to do with the maglites.:nana:

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6P are good and I carry it too, but sometimes slacks require smaller more discrete lumen monsters.

I re-size, but they keep showing up big. me not so technical. sorry.

The rules state that pictures have to be 800x600 or less. You'll have to resize yours.

If you really want small, a smaller 18650 battery light with a Seoul P7 or Cree MC-E might work. More floody but still tons of output.

O ordered the 2.4a module and have noticed a number of anomalies in the tests shown. The Lumen outputs do not tally in terms of ratio anyway. The 2.4a gives 600 lumen's out the front but the DD gives less than 400 pulling 3amps and gets very hot.

My 2.4a version is cooler than all DD i have tried, brighter and easy to run handheld or outside for practical time. The only heat issue comes from free standing. The DD units get hot regardless and more worrying so do the cells, my 2.4a unit never heats the cells. I have the 2.4a in a CL1H V4 and use it every day. I never trust anyone unless i test it myself.