With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit in?

The advantage to an incandescent is the fact that it has more throw, right? Do they still have more throw than a Luxeon Star LED? (whichever power level is appropriate?)

Is the only thing keeping incandescent bulbs around their cost/performance ratio?

Incandescents are in a different class as far as throw goes. I got a Streamlight Scorpion today, and I already have a CMG Reactor 3 (Luxeon). It's almost like comparing the Sun and the Moon. The Scorpion's brightness surprised me, given it's small size. I'll be checking its throw tonight outdoors, but given the fairly tight beam, I'll think it will be impressive. For close ranges (less than 30 feet), I like the quality and smoothness of beam that the Reactor provides. I guess each type has it's place.

Phil

Idon't think an LED will ever replace my E2CJ as my reguler EDC but my longest throwing light is a SNII LED light (other than my Vector 1,000,000 spotlight). I wouldn't have believed it 3 weeks ago but its true. I used to snicker everytime someone said LED's would replace incans but now I think its really a matter of time before we use more LED lights than incans.
Just my opinion.

The uses of the LED will no doubt increase. I seriously doubt that incandescents will be discontinued. If the fluorescent which is even more efficient has been unable to unseat incandescents, why would an LED?

[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
<snip>
If the fluorescent which is even more efficient has been unable to unseat incandescents, why would an LED?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because LEDs are rugged, and they don't need high voltage to get started. They also don't get tired like fluorescents eventually do. Fluorescnents have largely replaced incandescent lighting in commercial buildings, where they are practical. In a flashlight size, they are just not practical.

[ QUOTE ]
Smaug said:
[ QUOTE ]
Empath said:
<snip>
If the fluorescent which is even more efficient has been unable to unseat incandescents, why would an LED?

[/ QUOTE ]

.... They also don't get tired like fluorescents eventually do....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they do. According to Lumileds:

"There is no point in time at which the light source ceases to function; instead, LEDs gradually degrade in performance over time. Lumileds Luxeon product line, for example, is predicted to still deliver an average of 70% of initial intensity after 50,000 hours of operation. "

They go on to estimate that if the light were used 12 hours a day for 11 years there would be "70% lumen maintenance".
So, I suppose that LEDs to get a bit tired after a LOT of use, but it might see that use in home and business lighting applications.

obeck,

That is a LOT of use to make them tired, and I have a feeling that Luxeon Stars get tired a lot more quickly than 'normal' lighting LEDs... I will be lucky to use any one of my light an average of 1 hour per day. At that rate, I will be at 70% brightness in another 132 years.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you are talking about flashlights, I think the incans only fit in in two areas. 1. Entry price 2. Only in the brightest applications. I remember my first Surefire, the 6Z. Man I used to thing that that was a bright little flashlight. Well, I think my SNII exceeds that. It is in the middle of the pack I think amoung Surefire Incans. It did get beat by my 12ZM but not by much, but the 12ZM eats 4 123's in 15 minutes. I think the SNII is a more practical light. I was also one that hated adjustable beam light due to the fact that there beams are ugly. I thought that only fixed focus lights would be in my future. Well the 5watt lux really smoothes out an adjustable beam. In fact it makes it quite nice. For me, except for when the absolute brightest light is needed, I am going for an LED. An I get it will not be that many years until 500 Lumen LED's will be available.

[ QUOTE ]

They go on to estimate that if the light were used 12 hours a day for 11 years there would be "70% lumen maintenance".
So, I suppose that LEDs to get a bit tired after a LOT of use, but it might see that use in home and business lighting applications.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another drawback is the degadation is not uniform amoung LEDs. If you have a sign or display made up of many LEDs, over the years it will begin to look splotchy as some diodes degade faster than others.

Incandescents do fit in - as dead battery holders! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

The Blaster 2 has put my Mag 3-D to bed permanently, the Arc LSH-P and the Streamlight Luxeon Task Light can replace practically any common 2 cell alkaline incandescent light, the Inretech 2AA LS adapter puts the minimag incandescent bulb to shame, and the list goes on. Remember, all this is happening while the Luxeon Star technology is still in it's fledgling stages relative to incandescent bulbs... Just wait for what the future has to hold!

The 5 watt LS modules will be the first real test. These should be able to pump out the photons at a rate about equivalent as the high end 6 volt xenon lithium incandescents out there, which are currently unmatched by LEDs. The Streamlight Tasklight Luxeon shows that a reflector CAN be used very effectively to focus the LS module, so special optics may not be needed...

LEDs are replacing most of my incandescents!

What is an incandescent? Oh, wait...I remember those...saw them at Al`s museum of Surefire`s and other anceint lights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just kidding Al...maybe.

Yes, Led`s will come to rule the flashlight world. The reason for this is there ability to be happily dimmed/controled and of course they are improving in brightness every year. Dis is only me opinion.

At this point, you have those who say that a Blaster II is equivelant to a 3 celled incandescent. I believe this to be true, plus the light color is MUCH better for the life of the batteries.

When you start getting into the higher voltage/wattage incandescents, I think this is where they still excel. The only LED light that I have that is brighter than my Legend LX is my 2D Maglite with a 6AA battery insert and white 5 watt LED. But then, there are other incandescent lights that are much more powerful than my Legend LX. And until they come out with X bin 5 watt LEDs, we may not have very competitive LEDs with the 3 + CR123 type lights. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

After seeing Don's (McGizmo) post on the experiments with 5W Luxeon and optics/reflector combo in a turbo head, I believe it won't be long till we see some LED lights with incredible throw as well as brightness. I can't wait to see the Streamlight TL3 with a 5W Luxeon as it is. Ya gotta love our modders here they rival any large manufacturers R&D on much tighter budgets. Keep pushing the edge!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

Orion, my SNII is so much brighter than my C3 and throws a beautiful beam further than any light I own besides my Vector 1,000,000 cp spotlight. I really don't have a turbo head to make a fair comparison. In fact thats how I got a SNII, MrBulk had a SF KT1 turbo head in B/S/T, when Iemailed re: it he sold me an SNII. I couldn't be happier.
Hell for a fair 3 cel competition I'd put my second hand NexNeedle up against any SF 3 cell non turbo head version for throw, spill and overall output.
So yes there some 5 watt LS mods that compete and even beat 3 CR123 incans.
TSG, I agree there are some truely tallented members of CPF that push the envelope daily /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Thanx to them my sig. line really does apply to my lights, all praises to the gods of light.

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

Well, then I guess I stand (or sit as the case may be) corrected! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

My 5 watt LED in my 2D Maglite, using the Maglite reflector does a pretty good job, but it is still only just a bit brighter than my Legend LX, and I know that the Legend LX isn't as bright as a 3 celled Surefire. I guess that just shows how well Mr Bulk does on his mods. I just don't have the funds to spring for one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif One thing I CAN say about the mod I did, the light color is definitely much better than an incandescent. That white light just looks SOOO good! I can only imagine what you all with the SNII's get to experience. I'm happy for you, . . . .and envious! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

Do the SNII's use a high or low dome luxeons? Do 5W high domes exhibit the same throw difference as the 1W high vs. low domes?

If so I would really love to see a 5W high dome compared to an Incan in the throw dept. as my LSH-P throws like a mutha for a 1W 1x123 driven luxeon LED. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

5Wers don't come in low dome... The SNII uses a High Dome 5W LS that's pure white and brighter than hell because it is direct driven...

And because 5Wers don't have any low domes, you really can't compare that to a 1W low versus 1W high... An SE 5Wer will throw almost as good a spot, with more flood, but it won't be as bright...

Brightnorm did a comparison test between the SNII and some incandescents, like a Tigerlight and Ultrastinger... Do a search in the "Reviews" section, and you should find it...

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

And with MrBULK getting his hands on a reel of w3v's, who knows what we'll see!

A year or two ago, when CPF LED fans were predicting that LEDs would overtake incandescents in a few years, I smirked and gaffawed. Now, although most of my lights are incandescents, I've become a believer that LEDs will probably overtake incandescents in a couple of years. It seems like LSes have come so far, it's only a matter of time before they improve throw a bit, improve effiency a tad, and it starts making less sense to go with incandescents.

Joe

Re: With Luxeon Star LEDs out, do incans still fit

In order to change the general public's perception of LEDs and their usefulness in general lighting, you may have to start with companies like Phillips, GE, or Sylvannia or your bulb replacement companies. Things like new homes being built can be made with LEDs in lighting. Or new cars can have them more integrated. Or cities looking to replace their lighting infrastructures can start with an LED based system (like signal lights, street lighting, ball park lighting, light changes in public transportations like buses and trains, etc)... It might warrant something much more powerful than 5W Luxeon Stars, and it may take a few years, but it's a start. Obviously, you'll have some applications where even LEDs won't provide enough lighting, and that may be something that can be left to HIDs...

As far as flashlights go, as much quality as SureFire is and can dish out, they will not be the company to break heads into the mass market arena in terms of changing the mass's perception on LEDs. Streamlight is the leader in this area, only because they have the marketing clout, AND the desire, to put the LS products out in sheer quantities that will warrant large contractual purchases and such (read: sticking it on walls at Wal-Mart)... And as Mag falls behind in the technolgy department in LEDs (as well as the time department, in regards to releasing an LED based light), it'll probably take a few more years.

I felt awhile ago, that if LEDs are really going to challenge incandescents in the general lighting market, NOT just flashlights, they need to be significantly redesigned. By that, I mean an LS needs to be made where its projected light's not just on a flat surface under a dome, but perhaps through its sides... I thought something like a Side Emitter would've been excellent for a direct light bulb replacement because light from the LS can be directed to all angles. Maybe that design can be improved upon, rather than a beam that's directed at a specific angle, which may only be useful in flashlights, not any general lighting.

Maybe the 5W LSs are the entrance to the revolution of lighting in general, but I feel confident the 10Wers and up are going to be the real difference makers... Maybe once you have lumens from an LS above 1000, you'll start to see more people and places switch to LEDs for light.