How would McGizzy piston fare in dirty environment?

mcmc · Sep 25, 2009

All the posts about disasters lately have got me thinking about disaster preparedness.

My EDC is a McGizmo LS20. The piston is very cool. However, I wonder how it would fare in a dirty environment. Only one o-ring at the end of the piston, and if in a watery or dirty-water/sludge environment, would the piston moving back and forth allow water/dirt to get into the body itself?

As opposed to say SureFire-style sealed-off boots.

socom1970 · Sep 25, 2009

mcmc said:
All the posts about disasters lately have got me thinking about disaster preparedness.

My EDC is a McGizmo LS20. The piston is very cool. However, I wonder how it would fare in a dirty environment. Only one o-ring at the end of the piston, and if in a watery or dirty-water/sludge environment, would the piston moving back and forth allow water/dirt to get into the body itself?

As opposed to say SureFire-style sealed-off boots.

I do not know how it would hold up in a dirty environment. I seem to recall Don saying something about them being ok in most environments or something like that???:thinking:

I would venture a SWAG (Scientific Wild *** Guess) that the piston would be ok for a short time in dirty/sandy environments as long as the material has water in it as well, such as being in a body of dirty water or sandy water. In dry dirty environments such as if you dropped it in the sand on a beach or in a dirt pile, I wouldn't use it without cleaning it off first. The piston may have a problem, but so also might the bezel which, of course, you rotate for constant-on.

Personally, I would not use the LS20 or 27 in what I would consider dirty environments. I would think sealed switches are always better than the exposed piston or exposed, moving-parts switches such as twisty-bezels.

Your question is exactly the reason why I carry not only my LS20, but also my Haiku as well. That way, if I need light in a dirty environment, I have a clickie that has a sealed switch. Besides that, if you EDC only one light, you're asking for problems anyway. It's the old "two is one, and one is none" rule.

That said, I took the added precaution of putting a GITD o-ring right in-between the piston and the inner diameter of the tailcap. I don't know offhand what the diameter is, but I bought them from DX (Deal Extreme) for a couple bucks some time ago.

As you can see, it fits like a glove. Just that little bit of added protection. The o-rings Don uses are very good quality and should be ok, but I like redundancy wherever I can get it.

For the straight answer, you might want to email Don or ask this question in his area of CPF (however, that might fall under the "No Double-Posting" rule here).

fyrstormer · Sep 25, 2009

That's a very good idea. Can you measure that O-ring so I can get some of them?

Marduke · Sep 25, 2009

If Don ever wants me to see what a mud-rich environment will do, I would be happy to assist.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3069251&postcount=68

socom1970 · Sep 25, 2009

fyrstormer said:
That's a very good idea. Can you measure that O-ring so I can get some of them?

Sure! I just measured them. They are the 16mm GITD o-rings from DealExtreme.com They come in a 20-pack for $2.50. Look under the Electronics/ DIY parts area on the first page about half-way down. They have other colors in the 16mm as well (black, orange, etc...)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3445

(I don't know what a hot-link is, but I hope this is not one as I know they are not allowed here.)

Get some. They're cheap, good qualilty, they work, and they look cool, too!

UnderTheWeepingMoon · Sep 25, 2009

I don't carry my LS20 at work (I work in a fairly dusty environment). Because of the design of the mating between the head and the PD pak, with male threading on the head and female threading on the pak, dirt seems to collect at the base of the head above the O-ring. While this dirt doesn't make it past the O-ring into the light, I am concerned it may cause excessive O-ring wear with time. If you consider O-rings are replaceable consumable parts, this is pretty much a non-issue. Dirt does tend to collect at the tail of the light as well, but this is easily cleaned with a cloth.

The LS20 is a fantastic light but for dirty environments, I'm more comfortable with my HDS.

mcmc · Sep 29, 2009

Cool, thanks for the feedback everyone!

Marduke, it was precisely your thread that you reference that got me started thinking =) I was wondering, How would my LS20 fare in that situation? Because, you pay $$$ for the 'ideal lighting solution' and you would want it to work in every situation...ya know?

UTWM, I wouldn't mind replacing o-rings as a consumable. However, how do you (or anyone) go about cleaning your LS20s or PD's etc. regularly? Is there a set routine, and also method?

TranquillityBase · Sep 29, 2009

UTWM, I wouldn't mind replacing o-rings as a consumable. However, how do you (or anyone) go about cleaning your LS20s or PD's etc. regularly? Is there a set routine, and also method?

I use hot tap water, citrus cleaner, and a toothbrush to clean the piston and the body. Same method for cleaning the threads on the head, exception being, I don't hold the head under running tap water for obvoius reasons---->>>be careful not to get the driver wet/drenched. Best to replace the o-rings after a good cleaning.

Scottiver · Sep 30, 2009

Marduke said:
If Don ever wants me to see what a mud-rich environment will do, I would be happy to assist.

"Alabama's famous for it's mud"

mcmc · Sep 30, 2009

TranquillityBase said:
I use hot tap water, citrus cleaner, and a toothbrush to clean the piston and the body. Same method for cleaning the threads on the head, exception being, I don't hold the head under running tap water for obvoius reasons---->>>be careful not to get the driver wet/drenched. Best to replace the o-rings after a good cleaning.

Cool, thanks for sharing. The piston and body, I figure is alright to run under the tap. But as you mention, it was the head I was wondering about. Do you just brush it with the toothbrush and wipe, repeating until clean? Seems like it would be hard to get water/cleaner on the driver...and man it would suck for it to seep into the head too! =D

TranquillityBase · Sep 30, 2009

mcmc said:
Cool, thanks for sharing. The piston and body, I figure is alright to run under the tap. But as you mention, it was the head I was wondering about. Do you just brush it with the toothbrush and wipe, repeating until clean? Seems like it would be hard to get water/cleaner on the driver...and man it would suck for it to seep into the head too! =D

A handful of cotton swabs and some rubbing alcohol work too, or a round toothpick and thin cloth.

If you wish to wash the piston inside and out, carefully remove the spring first. After the parts are cleaned and dried, I like to give the bottom of the spring a light coating of Nyogel, then reinstall the spring in the piston.

ToeMoss · Sep 30, 2009

UnderTheWeepingMoon said:
If you consider O-rings are replaceable consumable parts, this is pretty much a non-issue.

That's exactly what they are...replaceable consumable parts.

UnderTheWeepingMoon · Sep 30, 2009

ToeMoss said:
That's exactly what they are...replaceable consumable parts.

Thats why I mentioned it. For the record, I haven't had to replace the o-rings in any of my PD lights yet but I have in a couple of Alephs.

For cleaning, I wipe my LS20's exterior with a damp cloth. I remove the piston from the sleeve and clean away any dirt with a cotton cloth. I give the threads a good clean with a cotton cloth until all grease and grit is removed and then a final wipe with a cotton swab and isopropyl alcohol. I remove the O-rings and ensure they are free of any grit. I then relube with Nyogel, clean the contacts with isopropyl alcohol and reassemble the light.

mcmc · Oct 1, 2009

Cool. Thanks guys! Lube-wise, I use a mix of No-Ox, and Militec 1 (leftover from my knife stuff).

Is it safe to use iso alc. on o-rings?

fareast · Oct 1, 2009

TranquillityBase said:
After the parts are cleaned and dried, I like to give the bottom of the spring a light coating of Nyogel, then reinstall the spring in the piston.

PLs correct me when I am mistaken, isn't nyogel supposed to be non-conductive? I.e. the spring transfers the energy to the piston and you cover it with a non conductive lubricant. I'd would say try out some Deoxit Gold for the spring.

TranquillityBase · Oct 1, 2009

fareast said:
PLs correct me when I am mistaken, isn't nyogel supposed to be non-conductive? I.e. the spring transfers the energy to the piston and you cover it with a non conductive lubricant. I'd would say try out some Deoxit Gold for the spring.

Corrosion protection.

mcmc · Oct 1, 2009

Fareast, because the spring is being pushed against the body and the piston, it will 'push aside' the Nyogel, enough to make decent contact, I believe...someone correct me if I'm wrong, though since TB actually does it, that would be my best guess as to why it works =)

fareast · Oct 2, 2009

mcmc said:
Fareast, because the spring is being pushed against the body and the piston, it will 'push aside' the Nyogel, enough to make decent contact, I believe...someone correct me if I'm wrong, though since TB actually does it, that would be my best guess as to why it works =)

Thanks for offering an explanation. The thing I was thinking about was the actual resistance (...nyogel might add). I.e. I keep reading about voltages and such and I read that every time electricity has to "cross a bridge" so to say, it adds resistance. Resistance = less is better. I have both Nyogel and deoxit and sometimes I am just not sure which one would be better for which application. Edit:My deciding factor right now is the following. If electrical conductivity is more important I use deoxot and if lubrication is more important, nyogel is up.

The main reason for me to reply was; I know nyogel turns grey. As many, I am not sure what it exactly is. Some say it's the normal oxidation of nyogel, others say it's abrasion. I am still looking for a definitive answer. Anyway, seeing this "gunk" froms pretty quickly, I wouldn't be too fond of it being smeared around the bottom of the piston.

I think TB is putting it there in case of battery leakage? I.e. in such cases the PD will survive better? Makes sense.

drmaxx · Oct 4, 2009

Before this turns fully into a cleaning and maintenance act: Is this an agreement that PD flashlights (Nightcore D10) don't do well in dusty environments? Has anybody experienced some real consequences of that (abrasion, failures, ....)?

Pekka · Oct 4, 2009

drmaxx said:
Before this turns fully into a cleaning and maintenance act: Is this an agreement that PD flashlights (Nightcore D10) don't do well in dusty environments? Has anybody experienced some real consequences of that (abrasion, failures, ....)?

...and while people are at that, has anyone had bad stuff happening on the threaded end of the light? Lots of other lights, almost all of them to be honest, have threaded end which should help with that sample's size.

How would McGizzy piston fare in dirty environment?

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