Throw vs spill...

I was using a Eagletac m2Sc in the back yard, (I'm going to return it) and I noticed something about the spill. Please remember that I am a newbie here, so I may not be using the terms properly.

Anyway, this light has a fairly large hotspot, but the spill, the light that emanates at rough 35 degree angles, is rather substantial. I was shining the light at a line of trees that were perhaps 50 yrds away, and it's clear that in addition to the wide-ish hotspot, there is a substantial veil of spill covering a field of approximately 70 degrees emanating from the flashlight.

Here's my point. This "spill" seems to have no usable function at distance beyond 50 ft. It does illuminate what it shines on *very* faintly, but it does not illuminate with nay degree of usefulness. As I see it, this wide swath of spill is simply siphoning away light that could be used to make the hotspot brighter.

The spill seems to only a small bit of usefulness at very short distances, out to 30 feet, where it illuminated the turf a bit. By the same token, this foreground illumination also has the function of hindering my night visision, so that the spot looks dimmer.

So, to summarize, it's hard for me to see what the usefulness of the spill is. It seems to me to be simply scavenging light away from the much more useful hotspot.

I am not talking about a bright flood. I can see how that could be useful.

blacktop711 said:

Here's my point. This "spill" seems to have no usable function at distance beyond 50 ft. It does illuminate what it shines on *very* faintly, but it does not illuminate with any degree of usefulness. As I see it, this wide swath of spill is simply siphoning away light that could be used to make the hotspot brighter.

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I think that's an accurate statement, but there's a lot to consider.

Any beam with sufficient throw to be useful past 50 feet that has no spill will be extremely difficult to use up close since the hot spot will be too small to fully illuminate anything bigger than a squirrel. Any beam with large enough hot spot to be useful at short distances will be too diffuse to have any real throw.

So you have 5 options on how to address this
1. get a light that uses a focusable lens rather than a reflector. This allows you to have a wide floody beam for short distances, but also a tight spot light for long distances.
2. use a light with a tightly defined hot spot and plenty of spill. Use the spill for short and medium distances by shining the hot spot past the object of interest and use the hot spot itself at distances where the hot spot is large enough to fully illuminate the object of interest.
3. use a light with a large hot spot so that it's useful up close, but has a High mode that is so bright that it's still useful at longer distances. Plenty of these lights exist in larger form factors. Very few exist that will comfortably fit in your pocket.
4. use a light with excellent throw and use a diffuser on it for close distance work.
5. carry multiple lights that are useful for difference purposes.

#1 is great if you find a light you like.

#2 seems to be the most popular compromise, at least for smaller lights.

#3 is fine if you don't mind either large light or short runtime.

#4 can be a hassle if the diffuser isn't permanently connected somehow to the light.

#5 is the pragmatic approach to having the perfect light for every distance.

Pick your poison.

--flatline

May I note that #5 is the flashaholic choice.
:laughing:

now, the spill lights NEAR things up, that are situated not where the bright hotspot is placed.

one example: brush at the sides or over the main beam at mt-biking
just try that use with an asperic that is focused at the same size as the hotspot of the reflectored light - the spill light shines here.


of course, primarily it is a matter of personal taste, I simply hate lights without spill
(but like deep reflectors that focus as much light as possible)

One thing I have earlier pointed out is that a true thrower, to be really useful, should have not only an intense hotspot, but also a bright spill. In many cases this isn't possible with the usual reflectors. A Maglite, for example has much wider beam size than the new LED-lights like Fenix, EagleTac, Jetbeam and Tiablo. This causes that spill brightness will be lower because the light amount will be spread out over a larger area.

But even a light as for example Tiablo A9, which has around 60% of the beam width (1/3 of the area) as a Maglite has a difference of light intensity between hotspot and spill of around 130 times. This does mean that an object far away which is clearly illuminated with the hotspot not may be visible around the hotspot. Therefore a true thrower either will have a very bright but also wide hotspot, or a spill which isn't that tremendeous dimmer than the hotspot. As I can see it. Imagine an A9/10 with half or less of the beam width providing 4 times the spill brightness. At long distance this would be awesome.

Regards, Patric

I am starting to realize that spill is underrated. Just having a tight beam and minimal or no spill would be like me having tunnel vision. Sure the spill is usually dimmer than the hotspot just as in your peripheral vision is not in focus but can you imagine not having your peripheral vision.

When I first started acquiring lights I would get the brights lights with the most throw. I didn't care about spill. But now after using my lights in various conditions, I put more value to things like bright spill, a smooth beam and a low low. For most purposes, I find a floody beam (bright spill) to be the most useful.

I still love and use my thowers like my Tiablo A9 but with the acquisition of a 650 lumen nailbender SST-90 drop-in for a Solarforce L2, I have a smooth beam with a large hotspot that blends smoothly into the very bright spill. When I walk with my wife at night using this light, It lights up everything in front of me without me having to move the hotspot around to see something like I would have to do with a tight hotspot thrower.

So having multiple lights for various purposes is always the flashaholic creed. Or if you could have only one light (blasphemy!!! ) it should be a multi level light that could actually focus the beam effectively from spot to flood. Is there such a light ? :shrug:

UpChUcK said:

So having multiple lights for various purposes is always the flashaholic creed. Or if you could have only one light (blasphemy!!! ) it should be a multi level light that could actually focus the beam effectively from spot to flood. Is there such a light ? :shrug:

Click to expand...

Yes, there is. Ledlenser lights have that function. It's a lens instead of a reflector.

Regards, Patric

different lights have different uses.

if it works well id keep it.

100% throw with zero spill is only really useful if you deliver pizza and want to see house numbers.

in any practical use of a flashlight a little spill and throw is more useful.

6 months from now you will likely have 3 or 7 lights, this one will have its place.

It's kinda had to say for me. It demends on what I'm doing. So I have settled on 3 lights.

I consider a decent spill to be critical to a quality light. The spill helps with navigation and depth perception way more than most people realize. You cannot depend on reflected light for navigation when you are looking at something actively while walking.

Spill is not robbery, but the best way to make a light complete.

All of the replies here do make sense to me. I guess I am underestimating the importance of spill, especially for close up work.

I was thinking the Jetbeam Raptor 2 might be a good choice for me. For a smaller light, it has been said to have excellent throw. I imagine it has some decent spill, necessary for the reasons stated above. In one review I have read here, it was mentioned that if the Raptor is defocused slightly, it very nearly offers the same utility as an Olight M20 with the OP reflector. I guess I could always diffuse the light even more in some way, like a translucent plastic.

It really depends on what you're using the light for.

For general use at short distances I much prefer a beam with less hotspot and more flood. Even for tasks where I'm close up and really only focusing on one thing, more spill is better because you get more illumination around the work as well as on it.

When I'm outdoors and moving around I want more throw, but even then, spill is still important. It allows you to see things to move the hotspot to. With no spill, you will spend a lot more time searching a small area you have to move around a lot. With a decent spill you'll see things around the hotspot and get a pretty good idea of where you want to look next with the hotspot.

There is a distance at which the spill is no longer useful, but usually by then whatever it is you're looking at is far enough away that the hotspot by itself will be big enough, and objects perceptually small enough in terms of how large they appear relative to your field of view, that spill isn't going to do much for you. In that situation though, yes, light in the spill area is not light in the hotspot, so you will get reduced throw. But I've never encountered a situation where the hotspot on my Quark AA2 hasn't been enough light for me.

For me I prefer a medium throw with a nice flood. Most of my use is at a cabin. Illuminate a room , table for cards, check the dock/boat etc.
Occassionally need to check down the driveway so do need a decent throw for that.
At one point it was all about throw, but in practical use for me , I realized I "needed" the opposite.

Swedpat said:

A Maglite, for example has much wider beam size than the new LED-lights like Fenix, EagleTac, Jetbeam and Tiablo. This causes that spill brightness will be lower because the light amount will be spread out over a larger area.

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Not really.

Spill brightness, in an ordinary reflector light, is just the LED brightness, because spill comes directly through the front lens with no magnification and (as a first approximation) no loss. The smaller vs. larger spill angle comes from relative reflector depth -- a shallow reflector lets a lot of spill out, while a deep reflector focuses what would have been the outer half of that spill into the throw beam. But what's left is still the same brightness.

The only way to get more spill brightness is to drive your LED with more current, or switch to a more efficient LED. (Well, you might pick up 20% or so going with an AR-coated window, but that's insignificant.)

And of course, all LEDs have a spill advantage over incans due to the Lambertian or tighter radiation pattern. OTOH, this weakens the throw for a given reflector aspect ratio -- which is why so many LED lights have deeper reflectors, giving the narrower spill angle you noticed.