Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie

Techjunkie

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I've been modding a lot of lights with XM-L emitters lately. This is one that I've prepared to receive an XM-L, but as I ran out of them, it for the moment has a de-domed SST-50 in it. I've never had a flood to throw light before 'cause I thought they were kinda hokey, but I think this one is really unique and kind of impressive.



I started the receipie looking for the most compact flood to throw light that I could fit an IMR 22650 in. (Not 26650, but 22650). The SacredFire NF-08 was perfect. Same size lens as almost all other flood to throw lights, but no wasted space in the bezel diameter. The whole light has the same diameter from head to tail which really appealed to me for keeping in the coat pocket. The tube, intended for 3AAA carrier is not much fatter than 18650 flood to throw lights, which despite having narrower tubes, for some reason mostly have larger heads when the same lens is used.



The second ingrediant obviously is the LiMn 22650 battery, which was the inspiration for the project. I wanted to be able to run an XM-L to the edge and stay in regulation for as long as possible. The extra capacity gives the light the power headroom I wanted without dramatically increasing the size like a 26650 or 26500 cell would.



Here's a pic of the light next to this oddball battery on the charger:

lightandbattery.jpg




From the front, you can see the de-domed SST-50 LED with phosphor damage in two of the corners:

thruthefront.jpg




You might notice the tail boot is kind of pointy. To handle the current and provide forward action, I replaced the stock switch with a KD fwd click switch. There wasn't much boot stub to cut out to make room for the taller plunger, so the boot now protrudes a bit more than before. No biggie.



The final and most complicated ingredient was a driver sandwich. For the base, I'm using a 17mm multimode 8*7135 board that lets you select the modes available by soldering stars on the ground ring. (I got this one from KD, but I think ShiningBeam has the same or similar item.) For the available modes, I chose Hi-lo-strobe. In EDC lights, I like to have the strobe handy to point at the ground to get drivers attention if necessary while crossing an unlit street at night.



Two 15mm 3*7135 boards are slaved from it for a total of 4.8A regulated output in hi mode. It was a real challenge getting everything to fit in the pill, and I used the wires supplied with the 2.8A board instead of my usual 20 awg copper. I think they might account for additional resistance causing hi mode to top out at 4.2A measured at the tail. (Either that or maybe one or two of the 14 7135's aren't connected.)



driversandwich.jpg




I used kaptan tape to isolate the boards from each other in case things shifted during installation.

driversandwich2.jpg


Hi is really high, with a steady climb to 4.2A. Low is really low, starting off at 50mA and settling in at 40mA. Strobe is hi fast strobe ~1.4A average RMS draw.



And finally, the beam shots. Same camera settings for each. ISO 400, 0.4sec, F3.5 IIRC. White balance set to Daylight 5200K. Between the de-doming of the cool white emitter and the aspheric lens, it has a very nice neutral tint now.



Flood Low:

floodlo.jpg




Flood Hi:

floodhi.jpg




Zoom low (notice you can see that the damaged phosphor areas projected in the image, but they still light up):

throwlo.jpg




Zoom hi:

throwhi.jpg




I'm looking forwatd to seeing this light get even more powerful at the same drive current with an XM-L emitter installed.



Oh, by the way, prior to installing the driver sandwich I had set up the SST-50 for direct drive and measured up to 6.0A at the tail through an in-line DMM as the emitter heated up. An AW IMR18650 only direct drove this same emitter to 3.5-4A in similar sized light (UltrFire C8-A1), but thermal management in that light was much more robust. The KD switch adds more resistance than the DMM does, but after a minute or two at whatever reduced current that provided, the battery didn't get warm, but the front of this light got quite hot. I'm hoping the XM-L and the 4.2A regulation will allow me to run it for 10-15 minutes at a time without overheating. I sure don't want to modify that driver sandwich again if I can avoid it.
 

Techjunkie

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Messages
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in the brightly lit suburbs of NYC (Long Island)
Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by VidPro on 01-12-2011 01:34 AM GMT

:kewlpics: how does the cell fit in the tube dia? tight fit, space leftover , or just right?

seems like an excelent combo, having the different dispersion of light, still in pocket size and with some Real Juice to run it.

the ONLY thing it makes me think, is that i would probably want a MED if i did such thing, because it surely wont run non-stop in high ???

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by johnnyl on 01-12-2011 08:15 AM GMT

That driver looks great. How does the light not melt?! ;)
Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-12-2011 09:08 AM GMT

I'd say it fits just right. There's about 1mm of free diameter in the tube and 2 or 3mm of length to spare, but the driver and tail springs keep the battery from rattling with no need to roll paper inside the tube. The red, button-topped UF 22600 cell fits fine too, with slightly less pressure on the tailspring 'cause they're shorter. The tail switch's spring is covered by a metal dome, so it doesn't have as much travel as a bare spring would have. The dome probably adds some pressure and surface area to reduce resistance under higher currents than if the spring were left bare. Mostly, it just looks nicer when you install the battery. Batteries longer than 65mm or shorter than 58mm probably wouldn't work without removing the spring dome. There was a short PVC sleeve just beneath the driver that I had to pop-out of the top with the tip of a broom handle after removing the head, or the 226x0 batteries would have stopped where the 3AAA carrier was meant to stop, and not fit into the tube all the way.

The mode board offers a configuration that includes a medium mode, but I didn't try it, so I don't know where its medium falls between low and hi. I was actually surprised and pleased by how low that the low actually is with this setup. I have used a 1A boost board with the same stars and mode group options in the past, but on that one, low is more like a high-medium that would be blinding to read a map by in this light. On that other board, the slight difference between high-med-low always prompted me to leave out medium mode and configure it for high-low only. I didn't try the board without the slaves attached, so I can't say for sure if the variance from high to low is that great by default, or if maybe the ceramic caps on the slave boards are affecting the VDD input to the 7135's on the slaves when the micro controller pulses that input. It's possible that the slaves are only used on high, although the strobe mode looks as bright as high does to me.

In this build, the low can be used up close or to light your path on a long (up to 40 hour) walk. For a little more power, adjust the zoom to halfway between flood and throw. The high is more of a Broadway center spot or "help me find my earring in this football field". Considering the low Vf of the XM-L, high would run regulated for ~20 minutes (if you could handle the heat) and then wane for the next 25 minutes. The SST-50 got really hot at 6A, but at 4.2A heat is managed well enough to allow an extended run. I think the XM-L will run even cooler, maybe cool enough to run non-stop in high for the whole discharge without getting dangerously hot.

VidPro said:
:kewlpics: how does the cell fit in the tube dia? tight fit, space leftover , or just right?

seems like an excelent combo, having the different dispersion of light, still in pocket size and with some Real Juice to run it.

the ONLY thing it makes me think, is that i would probably want a MED if i did such thing, because it surely wont run non-stop in high ???

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-17-2011 01:27 PM GMT

This is actually a bit off topic, because this is really an XM-L project that's just temporarily hosting an SST-50, but, I just wanted to share...

It turns out the SST-50 was not "damaged" afterall. I thought that stuff in the corners were burns on the phospor, but looking back at some older photos in a thread about long term effects of de-doming, I realized that the emitter appeared to have healed itself - not possible. it turned out that what I thought were damaged parts of the LED were just carbon or debris deposits on top of the gel that used to glue the dome down. I've just removed the deposits and now the whole LED die is visible:

ThrutheFrontcarbonscraped.jpg


throwhicarbonscraped.jpg

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-18-2011 10:30 PM GMT

An XM-L on 16.8mm PCB arrived from KD today. It took a bit more work than I would have liked. I had to:

  • file the MCPCB diameter to get it to press fit into place
  • attach the lens to the bezel ring with kapton tape around the edge and threads
  • adjust the focus by adding some glow rings between the bezel and the head
XM-L installed:

XM-Linstalled.jpg


New profile with focus adjustments:

newprofilewithadjustedfocus.jpg


New tailcap measurements still show 4.2A on hi as expected, but low has fallen to 30mA and strobe is up to 1.85A. Whatever. I'm not touching that driver stack again. It's done!

Here are some beamshots. Unfortunatley, my wife's camera with the manual settings is out for repair, so I had to use a point-n-shoot in "no flash" mode and it does all this auto-iris stuff that evens things out so much you can't really get an appreciation for how much different low and high are. Anyway...

Flood low:

XMLfloodlo.jpg


Flood high:

XMLfloodhi.jpg


Throw low:

XMLthowlo.jpg


Throw high:

XMLthrowhi.jpg

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Walterk on 01-19-2011 03:40 PM GMT

Thx again for the testing. I 'll go the XM-L's way now for next upgrades.

Noticed in the XX-ray thread you mentioned: This stressful, nerve racking, expensive, time draining, emotionally draining experience has been my last big project. Now that I have this trophy to keep, I think I'm done with big complex custom jobs like this one, at least for a very, very long time anyway.

Suppose all your smaller upgrades together are more satisfying :).

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-19-2011 08:30 PM GMT

Walterk said:
Thx again for the testing. I 'll go the XM-L's way now for next upgrades.

Noticed in the XX-ray thread you mentioned: This stressful, nerve racking, expensive, time draining, emotionally draining experience has been my last big project. Now that I have this trophy to keep, I think I'm done with big complex custom jobs like this one, at least for a very, very long time anyway.

Suppose all your smaller upgrades together are more satisfying :).
Bingo. I'm definitely more proud of the big projects that aren't easily duplicated, but these little ones are practically stress free by comparison. Bingo. I'm definitely more proud of the big projects that aren't easily duplicated, but these little ones are practically stress free by comparison.

As it happens, that XX-Ray "trophy" is finally up for sale. It breaks my heart to part with it, but I can't rationalize owning it anymore for financial reasons.

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-26-2011 08:10 PM GMT


newprofilefwdswitchre-mod.jpg


That pointy boot was getting on my nerves. The picture above shows how it looks now that I've corrected it. It's still the same KD forward clicky switch with the taller plunger, but I shimmed the side of the switch that has the plunger on it by placing a fat washer around it. In order to keep the height of the whole tailswitch assembly the same so the last piece with the brass dome would still thread into the tailcap, I had to trim the side of the plastic module that the contact spring protrudes through to make up for the height added by the washer.

I think can safely say that this one is done. :)
Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by olebob on 01-27-2011 08:03 AM GMT

but... but...

How does the heat and runtime compare to the SST-50?
"I'm hoping the XM-L and the 4.2A regulation will allow me to run it for 10-15 minutes at a time without overheating."

And since the new pics obviously don't do it justice, what's your opinion on output?

I hope you'll retake those pics to put the finishing touch on this little baby.

Thanks for the ride-along.

Re: Flood to Throw pocket rocket - custom recipie
Written by Techjunkie on 01-27-2011 08:44 AM GMT

olebob said:
but... but...

How does the heat and runtime compare to the SST-50?
"I'm hoping the XM-L and the 4.2A regulation will allow me to run it for 10-15 minutes at a time without overheating."

And since the new pics obviously don't do it justice, what's your opinion on output?

I hope you'll retake those pics to put the finishing touch on this little baby.

Thanks for the ride-along.
(answered in reverse) (answered in reverse)

Believe me, I want to. My wife's camera with the manual settings has been sent to Mack for aftermarket warranty repair and they take months to do the repairs and get it back to you. If I think of it, I'll bring the flashlight the next time we see her sister, who has a similar camera and I'll grab some shots there with the same settings as used for the de-domed SST-50.

Going by recall, output is visibly brighter. To me that says that a side-by-side comparison (if that were possible) would reveal that it's much brighter. Only pics at the same settings will tell. On the down side, the spot focus adjustment that I had to make by adding the gaskets had the side-effect of making flood circle is a little smaller (but brighter) and not as perfectly round. When flood is used up close, you can detect that it's not perfectly round, but more like a rounded square. Further away it's not obvious. The most notable difference is the cool white tint. I miss the neutral-warm tint of the de-domed SST, but I wouldn't go back to less bright / less efficient to get it back. I'll have to wait for 4000K XM-L.

Heat and runtime: improvements in both categories. When the battery is fully charged and the XM-L can draw the full 4.2A through the regulator, the light heats up for sure, but not to levels that would cause me to shut it off. After a cool down, a rested battery with open voltage of 4.07V only yielded a draw of ~3.5A at the tail on high and the head only became warm, not hot. With the regulator's connections adding the resistance that it does, most of this light's runtime is spent in the 3-3.5A range, providing for longer runtime and better thermals.
 
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Techjunkie

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Messages
943
Location
in the brightly lit suburbs of NYC (Long Island)
May I ask how did you disassemble the original pill?

If I recall correctly, after the bezel is unscrewed, and the lens removed, the pill can be unscrewed by placing the tips of a needle nose pliers into the holes drilled in its surface and unscrewing counter-clockwise with the emitter facing you. The pill can then be removed from the front. After desoldering the leads from the star, soften the solder that holds the driver in place and push on it with a pick through the holes that the LED leads travel through. I'm going from memory, but if memory serves, this was not unlike most other pill based lights which are constructed similarly.
 

recDNA

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Jun 2, 2009
Messages
8,761
Great project! Wish it were easy so you could make 100 of the them and sell em cheap! I kind of got a kick out of some of your remarks about the stress of it and trying to get everything just so. I'm like that. I'm never happy with things as they are and I just keep tinkering. If I break something - even something relatively inexpensive it totally stresses me out until/unless I can fix it. Projects are rewarding but can also be a pain in the ....
 
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