Current switch design paradigm makes no sense

So there are like 30 different LED flashlight makers and hundreds (maybe thousands) of models but they're all the same design--either tail cap button or twist head. Neither makes any sense at all for most users. How can a twist head even be justified for multilevel lights? It's completely ridiculous, actually; it's just accepted because that's what the current paradigm is!

I know it's also done because of simplicity, but are we really suggesting a reliable and thin (i.e. small so doesn't take up room) side switch is impossible to design? So why is no one doing it? I read another thread about side switches and after looking at all the options, there are very few that were mentioned (like the Zebra SC51 and Olight models) that actually have a single power switch on side. The SC51 switch is way too big and apparently not the best. I can think of a number of design possibilities for thumb-switch-cylinder interface. I'm not mentioning them here because who knows, maybe I'll patent them. There have to be better ways.

The tailcap switch is obviously a carry-over from pistol use tactical lights. While fun for the majority of pretend-tactical users here on CPF, it's non-functional and awkward for the average citizen-user. Anyway, that's it. I'm just tired of groupthink-sorry.

a sidewall switch that didn't compromise the tube wall would be very cool, maybe a captive magnet contained in a band bonded to the tube with a corresponding magnetic switch inside. Maybe that sounds complicated but I bet it could be done simply enough... only o-rings to worry about instead of rubber capped holes.

Many years ago I had an electric toothbrush (Braun D3 I think) that had a neat switch. It was a sliding collar that incorporated a magnet and when slid forward slightly it activated the toothbrush via magnetic contact. As it was an induction switch the body of the toothbrush remained completely water tight.

An added advantage was that when travelling, the collar could be slipped off and put on the bottom end of the toothbrush so it would not accidentally activate.

You would think something similar could be designed for a flashlight. The last few toothbrushes I've used have had a rubber covered switch on the side which works fine, but is easily activated if the toothbrush is knocked in transit, so not as good for taking on holiday.

Beckler said:

The tailcap switch is obviously a carry-over from pistol use tactical lights. While fun for the majority of pretend-tactical users here on CPF, it's non-functional and awkward for the average citizen-user.

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While I agree with you and other contributors to this thread that there are many exciting and insufficiently explored alternatives to the standard tail switch I disagree with your statement above.

I have rather large hands and the most natural way to securely grip compact lights (think 1x18650 and smaller) is to wrap my fingers around the body of the light leaving my thumb to operate a tail switch. It would be very awkard for me having to hold such a light in a way that I can operate a switch at the side of the body.

The switch type is actually determined by the type of grip used.
The tactical overhand grip with four fingers over the top, to hold the flashlight high above the ground for maximum throw, requires a tail end switch.
The relaxing lazy underhand handshake grip, held waist height for flooding, requires the side switch.



Historically, most of these quality lights had a tactical origin for use with guns and rifles etc, hence the tail cap switch.
The head twist is very simple because loosening the head eventually disengages the battery.
You could also say that traditionally, most of the flashlights were pure throwers, further complimenting their tactical use.

However, lately there are more and more side switches, eg the Zebralight SC600 1x18650 XM-L, and the Nitecore Tiny Monster TM11 4x18650 Triple XM-L.
You could also say that these two flashlights are flooders too, designed more for the lateral spill of beam, than the longitudinal throw of the beam.

The Sunwayman V60C 3x18650 XM-L and the latest Xtar S1 3x18650 Triple XM-L both use magnetic rings at the neck.
However, on a large tubular diameter flashlight, a magnetic ring is fine to activate with two hands, but it can be a little awkward to operate with one hand like my RRT-3.
Of help here, is if the magnetic ring has short travel like the V60C and the Xtar, rather than the long travel of my old RRT-3.

More and more lights are using side switches or magnetic rings now like the Sunway V20C, V60C, T20CS and T40CS.
This is probably because these lights are no longer just for tactical use with guns - they are now for regular civilian use as well.
High quality flashlight sales are expanding more and more into the hands of normal consumers.

The magnetic ring is easy to select modes.
The magnetic ring is also easy to deliver continuous infinite brightness control.
The side button is an easy press, but multiple mode design incorporated in a single side switch can be a complex issue.
Eg, on the Zebra SC600, a long press turns on low, while a short press turns on turbo, and many users have commented on accidentally turning my SC600 on turbo at 2am in the morning.
On the TM11, a short fast press can mean turning on, or ramping up modes, or turbo, while a long press can mean total switching off.
Depends on how they program the side switch.



Thus, to summarise, the tail end switch is still a favourite for tactical lights, and dedicated pure throwers, which need to be gripped by the overhand grip with four fingers over the top, held high above the ground to maximise throw.
Meanwhile, with more practical regular floody lights, held relaxingly low at the waist line via the relaxing underhand hand shake grip, it may not be a bad idea for smaller lights to use magnetic rings, with infinite adjustment too, while larger lights use side switches.

It may also not be a bad idea to have "dual" [both] switches either - incorporating both the tail end switch and the side switch or magnetic ring, so that both the lazy relaxing waist height underhand grip operating the side switch can be used for regular flooding, while the overhand grip activating the tail end switch holding the flashlight high above the ground can be used to maximise throw.
Dual switches caters for both types of grips, and both types of users.

Those who want an outright compact short light like the SC600 or TM11, must use the side switch only, since the tail end switch or magnetic ring at the neck, will add to the overall length of the flashlight.
Since the side switch here dictates hand shake grip below the waist line, it is best used with a floody light - hence the SC600 and TM11 are both floody lights.

Both types of switches are good, each for different reasons.
Sure, traditionally most flashlights did use tail end switches, but there are quite a few side switches/magnetic rings available nowadays.
Just remember to match the grip type, with the switch type, and the beam type.
With lateral flood beams, the flashlight can be held below the waist line, with the hand shake grip activating the side switch.
With long throw beams, the flashlight is best held high above the ground to maximise throw, with four fingers over the top activating the tail end switch....

I'd like to see more lights with a side switch, a logical solution for bigger 'lights and us "non-tactical" users who prefer sword grip and don't want to fiddle with a rotary head twisty too. IMO waterproof electronic (soft touch) switch isn't too hard to manufacture. Lights from the ill-fated Nitecore DS/ES series were supposed to have side switches, and a light like Jetbeam PA40 would be almost perfect with a good side switch. Just my EUR 0.02

Cheers,

Tam

I hate side switches. Would never buy one.
It's leftover group think from the way they did things in the 1920s.

To me, gripping a small light in a way that utilizes the thumb to activate a tailcap switch seems natural. A tailcap switch on larger lights such as the Fenix TK40 seems awkward to me and should utilize a side switch. To each his own.

I'm waiting for the magnetic rotating switch of the MBI "Torpedo" with some anticipation. I'm hoping it works well in real life use as it shows considerable promise.

Beckler said:

So there are like 30 different LED flashlight makers and hundreds (maybe thousands) of models but they're all the same design--either tail cap button or twist head. Neither makes any sense at all for most users. How can a twist head even be justified for multilevel lights? It's completely ridiculous, actually; it's just accepted because that's what the current paradigm is!

While fun for the majority of pretend-tactical users here on CPF, it's non-functional and awkward for the average citizen-user. Anyway, that's it. I'm just tired of groupthink-sorry.

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Apparently you're just not old enough to recall that side switches were used on every design for the better part of the last century, up until Surefire came along and popularized an actual thought out design that is functionally ergonomic toward certain uses which the lights are marketed toward. Also realize that here in the US, most of us can actually own firearms for personal or home protection...thus fewer "tactical pretenders" than you might want to admit.

Personally I prefer a tailcap switch over a side switch....another observation you failed to make is that the manufacturers wouldn't make it if it didn't sell well.

As long as we're starting with a fresh paradigm, I'd prefer the light to simply know what I want it to do, and do it.

twl said:

I hate side switches. Would never buy one.
It's leftover group think from the way they did things in the 1920s.

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So one type of group-think has replaced another?

I think that the human hand, wrist, and arm system is flexible enough to make all of these switch paradigms more or less equally usable--I have no problems with any of them. While there are some advantages and disadvantages to each approach, most are minor. For example, if you prefer to hold your flashlight low, then a side switch allows for a more natural grip while maintaining control of the switch, and similarly for a high hold a tail switch allows for a more natural, comfortable, and secure grip. The former has some advantages for long-term flashlight use (there's nothing wrong with or lazy about being comfortable), while the latter, not surprisingly, has some advantages for "tactical" situations (e.g. there is no need to rotate the flashlight axially to locate the switch, so there's one less thing that could go wrong during an emergency). For general use, just pick whichever you're more accustomed to or you like the most for whatever reasons.

By the way, there is also the pistol-type grip that I use with my ZebraLight H51c (primary EDC) since it's a right-angle flashlight/headlamp. Such a grip doesn't have any major advantages for flashlights, really, although when considering every possible direction I could point it (up, down, left, right) I think it's the most natural and comfortable overall. This should not be surprising, I think, because it matches how people point their index fingers.

TEEJ said:

As long as we're starting with a fresh paradigm, I'd prefer the light to simply know what I want it to do, and do it.

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http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?331237

Are we one step closer?

Beckler:
I think to condemn the users of CPF as "pretend-tactical" is a bit harsh, as many of them are tactical users. I am not one of them, but I still prefer tail-cap switches. Is this because I dream of tactical uses I will one day put them to? No! I simply prefer tail-cap switches. But, neither is it wrong for you to like side-switches. We must each make our own choices, and strive not to force them on others. Now, why is it that most high-end lights are built with a tail-cap switch? Because high-end lights were origanally built for tactical users! Is Surefire going to start putting side switches on all their lights because average citizen users want them? Of course not, as long as their primary customers are police/military. Most users require nothing more than a Maglite. Many of us buy high-end light because we want them, not because we need them. On the topic of twisties, these are popular because they are cheap, reliable, and rather easy to use. If a light was fitted with a side switch as reliable as the twisty on, for instance, my ArmyTek Predator, the cost would be well above the already steep $119. Companies build what will suffice the users needs, and be least expensive for both the user and the company. Companies that don't do this generally won't last long, unless they have me as a customer.

Well in fairness I only said the majority of pretend users, not that the majority was pretend (although that may well be the case )

lightfooted said:

...
Personally I prefer a tailcap switch over a side switch....another observation you failed to make is that the manufacturers wouldn't make it if it didn't sell well.

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Well I think humans can adapt to pretty much anything. They've adapted to whatever's available. It doesn't mean it's efficient, or that there isn't a "most efficient" design for most users.

I can appreciate it's a matter of choice. But among everyday users, who's actually needing an overhand grip most of the time? If it's in your pocket/belt, then it transitions to underhand more efficiently. If you're going for a walk, you're not using overhand, unless you're crazy. There are still many uses for it such as inspecting closely at eye level. But I'm suggesting the majority of uses are underhand. I could be wrong. I doubt the 99%:1% ratio of twist/tail switch to side switch however, matches any sort of real world usage pattern.

Also I'm not saying necessarily the answer is a side switch. The twist-head, on small lights especially, irks me to no end. I'm saying there has to be *some* better way. 99% of the small keychain type lights are twist-head. The notion of someone fumbling in the dark with two hands to twist it 3 times in a row to get to the right level, is an utter absurdity.

Beckler said:

I can appreciate it's a matter of choice. But among everyday users, who's actually needing an overhand grip most of the time? If it's in your pocket/belt, then it transitions to underhand more efficiently. If you're going for a walk, you're not using overhand, unless you're crazy.

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I'd have to disagree with this. Clipped to my pocket or belt, the easiest way for me to gain access to my torch is to wrap my thumb and index/middle fingers around the tail end of the torch and pull it out of my pocket. Then since my thumb's at the tail end, it's also right there next to a tail switch, as opposed to needing to then flip the torch to get access to a side switch or a twisty.

I'm also quite capable of using an overhand grip down near my waist or chest level. I must be crazy...

Beckler said:

Well in fairness I only said the majority of pretend users, not that the majority was pretend (although that may well be the case )



Well I think humans can adapt to pretty much anything. They've adapted to whatever's available. It doesn't mean it's efficient, or that there isn't a "most efficient" design for most users.

I can appreciate it's a matter of choice. But among everyday users, who's actually needing an overhand grip most of the time? If it's in your pocket/belt, then it transitions to underhand more efficiently. If you're going for a walk, you're not using overhand, unless you're crazy. There are still many uses for it such as inspecting closely at eye level. But I'm suggesting the majority of uses are underhand. I could be wrong. I doubt the 99%:1% ratio of twist/tail switch to side switch however, matches any sort of real world usage pattern.

Also I'm not saying necessarily the answer is a side switch. The twist-head, on small lights especially, irks me to no end. I'm saying there has to be *some* better way. 99% of the small keychain type lights are twist-head. The notion of someone fumbling in the dark with two hands to twist it 3 times in a row to get to the right level, is an utter absurdity.

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I am not a tactical user, and yet I would say I rarely ever use the underhand "remote control" grip, with the exception of going for for a walk in the dark, and that isn't very often. It's harder to aim the light around with that grip. Most times I am using an overhand grip to easily shine the light in any direction I may choose. I also frequently use the "pencil" grip for things that are fairly close, which is the bulk of my daily usage. Thus, I would say that the tail switch is more useful for me than a side switch in most situations.

On the topic of small lights and twisties, the main reason I believe that most small keychain lights are twisties is that that mechanism takes up nearly zero space, allowing for the light to stay as small as possible. And that is the point, isn't it? Adding a switch requires the light to be made larger to accomodate it. Likewise, twisties are very reliable, a plus on an oft-neglected and abused backup light.

Also, when fumbling in the dark to turn on said light, I will ALWAYS know where the head is to twist it...finding that darn button somewhere on one of the sides of the light seems much more challenging...absurd even.

I like dual tail or dual side switches one of each makes no sense I like the Klarus lights because at least they have memory so the side switch isn't needed a lot. I also like the idea of a side switch for EDC or non-tactical lights.

I prefer the tailswitch. There is never any question about orienting the light properly for switch access, and they are easily serviceable.

Despite not needing the light for tactical purposes, I find the cigar grip the most useful.