LEO and "crenulated" bezels

..can any LEO/attorney/arm-chair ninja LEO/Attorney tell me if a light equipped w/ a crenulated bezel *might* become a "deadly weapon" or "concealed weapon" charge? I've seen some of the "porcupine" bezels on here and I only see a possible weapon. Or if there's some sort of rule where the crenulations are of a certain height/configuration, etc etc they're fine..

..I've been in enough trouble in my years to really push the issue in the courts and I really don't have the time, energy, or money if I had to. I'm just curious before I put mine on.. ..I also don't want to start a war; just an answer/opinion..

Opinion of an armchair ninja - it will surely depend on the country, circumstances that brought you to court, how the judge "judges/likes/believes" you, quality of the lawyers. If you are in serious doubt - leave them of. Nonetheless there are enough posts on CPF of people flying with an Surefire E2DL on their belt. And I consider the "teeth" on the E2DL as the sharpest Surefire has to offer.

Cheers
Thorsten

Maybe this won't be the kind of answer you're looking for:

If carrying a concealed weapon is not legal for you or where you are going to be carrying it, then perhaps you should consider not bringing attention to the fact that any tube of metal large enough or long enough can be considered a weapon if used as such. My father was once stabbed in the hand with a slotted screwdriver by a car thief as he attempted to apprehend the thief, not a flashlight but the idea is still the same. Even a 2D maglight will be considered a weapon if it is used to split open someone's skull, improvised weapon...but a weapon all the same. If it appears to be designed to inflict injury the more likely it is to be viewed as a weapon even if it's not likely to be used as one. Metal is harder than flesh and so it will be difficult to impossible to convince a reasonable person that those long protruding pieces aren't capable of doing serious damage if swung with force.

It's partly intent, but mostly up to the judge (Or arresting officer, who can call it a flashlight or a self-defense weapon). "Did you buy the biggest, baddest klingon war bezel?"

Are you in the USA?

I think if you're justified in using force, it won't matter if it was a toothy flashlight or a .45 (depending on what is legal in your jurisdiction). For example, in NYC where guns and knives are outlawed, if you would've been justified in picking up a baseball bat, I think you'd get off with using a strike bezel equipped flashlight. But of course, every scenario is different.

If you're talking about just a random search or interaction where you're concerned about an officer detaining and possibly arresting you for the nature of your light without there being an encounter that requires the use of force between you and another individual, that is harder to pin down due to the lack of calibration from one officer/city/county/state to the next.

MagicDot said:

..can any LEO/attorney/arm-chair ninja LEO/Attorney tell me if a light equipped w/ a crenulated bezel *might* become a "deadly weapon" or "concealed weapon" charge? I've seen some of the "porcupine" bezels on here and I only see a possible weapon. Or if there's some sort of rule where the crenulations are of a certain height/configuration, etc etc they're fine..

..I've been in enough trouble in my years to really push the issue in the courts and I really don't have the time, energy, or money if I had to. I'm just curious before I put mine on.. ..I also don't want to start a war; just an answer/opinion..

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I think its astounding we're made it to the point where you have to be concerned with a LEO finding a FLASHLIGHT on you and detaining/arresting you for carrying a concealed weapon! Is it me or is there something wrong with this picture!??!?

There is something very wrong with the picture.

eh4 said:

There is something very wrong with the picture.

Click to expand...

Completely agree.

IMO it would come down to these factors:

is the bezel a "normal" crenelated bezel that has other uses apart from defensive ones - letting light out when it's head standing, breaking glass in emergencies, etc, or it is the likes of the so called "Klingon" bezel that is purpose built as a stabbing / cutting weapon?

what admissions has the person carrying it made - have they admitted they are carrying it solely for self defense? Have they fitted the bezel or was that how the light came?

what overt acts have there been - has it been used as a weapon? Was that use justified under the circumstances and relevent legislation?

and of course - what does the law say about items carried with the intention of being used for self defense? That will vary from place to place of course.

Another issue - is there are a search power that the police have that allow them to search you under the circumstances?

If you are justified in using force, as long as it is reasonable and you are perited to have the item, you should be ok. I am not an atoney, but am LE. NOW, with that said. Have you sharpened the bezel of any light or other item like a knife, turning it into a weapon, or used it in agression and not to protect yours or someone else's life? I have seen any lights with the tactical bezels, and as a tactical officer, i can say I have never been to a training that ever mentioned getting those kinds of lights just in case you have to use it as a weapon. Many people's rings would probably cut someone just as easy as a bezel on a flashlight. I think most LEO's would look at the circumstances, and be glad that's all you used. Be Safe!

If you are end up in a situation where you're justifiably defending yourself from imminent harm, everything that can be used as a weapon is good to go.

If you end up in jail because you mauled a homeless guy in a wheel chair who was asleep I hope.. well I hope the ride to jail answers the question.