Old 6P and Plastic Lens - What LA Upgrade?

Hey folks, I have a quick newbie question regarding my new-to-me vintage round 6P. I would like to have an upgraded lamp assembly but don't want to source a lens replacement kit etc. What are my options and likely success rates for drop-ins when it comes to NOT melting the stock lens?

1. I'd like to drop in a Malkoff M61 - would this be ill advised?

2. What about the M60 with its built in lens. Would I be able to use an M60 and just completely remove the stock plastic lens?

3. What about the P60L - would this be ok heat-wise?

Thank you in advance!

Here's a photo of the 6P

If you don't want the hassle of replacing the lens, M61LLL or M61LL will do the trick. They're pretty low output, so they don't produce much heat.

Don't bother with P60L. It'll eventually destroy itself due to lack of proper heatsinking.

In any event, do not ever leave your light turned on for extended periods. Also, do not leave your light turned on and leave it facing down on a surface. Those two are sure fire ways to melt your lens.

Nice GSAR.

M61L should suit you just fine, since they are recommended for use in the all nitrolon G2 series. I tried finding a lens replacement and it is hard to find them these days.

Hey thanks guys. I figured a full power or SHO Malkoff would spell disaster, but it makes me feel better knowing a L or LL will work out. I really like the feel of this 6P.

Thanks again.

GG_Blaisdell said:

Hey folks, I have a quick newbie question regarding my new-to-me vintage round 6P. I would like to have an upgraded lamp assembly but don't want to source a lens replacement kit etc. What are my options and likely success rates for drop-ins when it comes to NOT melting the stock lens? [...]

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I have done many full 30-minute runs with the Moddoo DD XP-G triple in an older light with the early plastic (lexan) lens. If I am not holding the light in my hand the entire time the light body very quickly gets way too hot to touch.

Initial currents for this unit are approximately 5 amps - that is over 15 watts of power - possibly the highest wattage LED dropin ever built.

There has been no visible change to the pristine original lexan lens:


(The above pic was taken before the installation of this particular LED dropin.)

This compares rather well with the ~4 watts from the Malkoff M61 (or the ~6 watts from the SHO - just a guess on that one).

I expect that you will have no problems with any combo in your older 6P in this regard.

Hope this helps,

GG_Blaisdell said:

Hey thanks guys. I figured a full power or SHO Malkoff would spell disaster, but it makes me feel better knowing a L or LL will work out. I really like the feel of this 6P.

Thanks again.

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I wouldn't assume the stock lens won't work with a full pwer M61 drop-in. Gene makes no mention of that being a problem on the M61 listing. Give him a shout on their website and ask. They're great about getting back to you.

That being said, a single output light like the 6P might be more useful for you with a slightly reduced output module like the M61L or even the M61LL. Really depends on what you need. The lower output modules have great runtimes, and anything is an improvement over the stock incan. unit.

Cheers!

the original halogen bulb poses MUCH MORE stress (in regard to heat) to the lens
and even then the lens is/was only affected when the 6P was placed upside down + running.

any high power insert will seem the light getting hot but that is just because the metal is "heated" (instead of the heat from the beam going directly on the lens with the halogen.
As long as one can grip the surface, there is nothing to worry about ...

Thanks all. Essentially what it is boiling down to is that any Malkoff will likely work with the stock plastic lens? I don't plan on setting the light bezel down whilst running. The lens has an ever so slight halo in the center, but no artifacts I can see stem from this slight halo. It's sounding like I am free to choose just about any of the drop-ins... lovecpf

Just to mention another possible option ... could just get a modern Z44 bezel / lens assembly to use with any high-powered dropins for which you might be concerned about heat handling.

That would keep your vintage "collectible" bezel / lens in good condition.

Used Z44 show up on the MarketPlace regularly, and usually not too pricey....

Malkoff uses "plastic" lenses in all his stuff. Heat becomes a issue only when you put them in a plastic host.
The tir optic in all those hard driven triples/quads p60's on the marked is "plastic". Mounted directly on top the led with no space between them. Nothing is melting on the superhot quads. I wouldent worry about the lense.

dss_777 said:

anything is an improvement over the stock incan. unit.

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Actually, no. The stock incan is quite good, better than many LED drop-ins, even if it isn't as bright. Brighter does not imply better.

JCD said:

Actually, no. The stock incan is quite good, better than many LED drop-ins, even if it isn't as bright. Brighter does not imply better.

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You're absolutely right, of course. I meant "brighter", not necessarily "better for everyone". The greater output with increased runtime is the real advantage for my use. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of light color/quality for that. I realize that one reason for that is I rely exclusievely on primary batteries. If you had rechargeables, that may be a little different.

Compare:
Original 6P = 65 lumens, 1 hr runtime (at full output)
Malkoff M61WLL = 70 lumens, 10 hr runtime
Malkoff M61LL = 100 lumens 10 hr runtime
Malkoff M61L = 170 lumens, 5 hr runtme

And so on...

dss_777 said:

You're absolutely right, of course. I meant "brighter", not necessarily "better for everyone". The greater output with increased runtime is the real advantage for my use. I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of light color/quality for that. I realize that one reason for that is I rely exclusievely on primary batteries. If you had rechargeables, that may be a little different.

Compare:
Original 6P = 65 lumens, 1 hr runtime (at full output)
Malkoff M61WLL = 70 lumens, 10 hr runtime
Malkoff M61LL = 100 lumens 10 hr runtime
Malkoff M61L = 170 lumens, 5 hr runtme

And so on...

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I agree that both emitter types have their strengths and weaknesses. LEDs are much more efficient than incans, with respect to battery life and/or luminous flux. For many tasks, that efficiency trumps any benefits of using a quality incan. For other tasks, incans can illuminate important subtle colors and details that LEDs struggle with. I would argue that for most tasks, either will work fine, and it is simply a matter of personal preference. It's not a matter of one being better or worse than the other. It's a matter of knowing when each one is the best tool for the task at hand (and, when it doesn't much matter, which one produces light the user perceives as more pleasant to use).

As incans go, a stock 6P is pretty good, at least in the 2x CR123A form factor.

Good points, and it helps to keep all this in perspective. It's interesting to think back on my transition from incan G2, to G2LED, to the Malkoff dropins.

I vividly remember spending a summer in the crawlspace and attic doing a complete whole-house, low-voltage, re-wire with just the incan. G2, and felt very well equipped. I was rockin' my state-of-the-art ARC AAA for backup, so I was all set!

It wasn't all that long ago that the incan. 6P/G2 represented a revolution in flashlights, when we were shocked and amazed at how "so much light" could come from such a small package.

Thanks for the perspective check.

Cheers!

M61 XP-G2 ordered folks! I sent Malkoff Devices an email and received a response in minutes. That is great service! I'll post up a photo or two when it arrives. Thank you to all!