Obsolescence in flashlights

Flashlights have come a long way since I first came across CPF in 2003. Many of my older flashlights are just sitting around not being used.

I had a number of 2AA side by side or 9V incan flashlights as an EDC. I breathed a sigh of relief when I came across the Maglite Solitaire. Then the battery in the Soli died during the big 2003 blackout. Have to feel my way up many flights of stairs. Did not know about the ELEVEN MINUTE RUNTIME. Start looking for better runtime but still pocketable.

My first pocket LED flashlight was a Dorcy AAA. 5 mm LED. Unnecessary big head. I replaced the circuit board with a 10 mm PR bulb and used another tail cap to hold it in place. (See my avatar photo.) But then the Fenix L0D came out which made it obsolete. The Fenix is retired when I got a custom Millermodded Arc AAA. I selected the power levels based on runtime, not brightness.

I had a number of Luxeon 1AA single mode flashlights. Fenix L1P, Civictor etc. before the L0D. They have been replaced by a 4sevens Mini AA as my Goto EDC. I also have a neutral XML Quark Tactical on a 14500. (The original 2AA tube is around somewhere.)

I bought some SSC-P7 lights but for the first 18 months they all came with 18650 batteries. When Electrolumens came out with a 3C version I got one. $140. Was about to ask Electrolumens if he would build me an XML version but yesterday came across a Defiant 3C XML at Home Depot for $25.

I am on the wrong side of the 49th parallel and no paypal account. So no BST. I managed to donate some of the better flashlights to CPF's christmas giveaways. But I still have a big box of obsolete flashlights.

The surprising thing is I bought a 4AA 1LED flashlight at Radio Shack back in 2000. (Also sold as the Turtlelight, Dorcy 4AA 1LED floating lantern. Plastic with rubber ends.) That is still in use though I had replaced the PR bulb with a more powerful version.

How about you guys. How many or what percentage of your lights are obsolete or getting there?

An iteresting question. The reality is that if the light still works (i.e. provides light), is it really obsolete? What does obsolete really mean. I had (have) and old Fenix head on a Leef body. It was my EDC for many years and worked fine. Then I started reading about new emitters - more output, more efficient, better tint, etc. I decided that the old Fenix head and Leef body were obsolete and started looking for a new EDC. I'm still looking... On the other hand, I now have several lights with different features and rotate them as needed.

One thing I like about hosts is the ability to get different dropins. This lets you get the latest and greatest emitter at a reasonable cost. You want a dropin with a Nichia 219 or an XM-L2? Done. Want a triple? Done. But having a drawer with a bunch of unused dropins, isn't much better than having a drawer of unused lights.

Don't have any useless ones. Then again, I don't binge buy, not that I don't want to. I see so many that I want. But every light I have has a purpose. Some of them may never be used, like glove box lights in my vehicles. However, when the time comes to use them, they will get used. If one does come to a point where I know it will never be used, its either given, traded or sold.

The way I look at it is, that a given beam pattern and output may serve a purpose, whatever that is.

So if a light is bright enough at the needed range and pattern, tint, etc, then its simply going to work in that function.


What tends to happen though, is that we tend to "calibrate" how bright is bright "enough" based upon whatever was allowing us to do something.

So, if all there were were 5 lumen lights with tight beams that put those 5 lumens in a hand print sized circle of light 10' away, but, we could see whatever we were looking for, it was "bright enough".

If it had been 10 lumens, that would ALSO have been bright enough, and so forth....but we would have calibrated ourselves to the 5 lumens as being bright enough as a baseline.


So, as better and better lighting is available, the 5 lumen light is not dimmer, but, there are choices that will let you see more if you want to.


The 5 lumen light is only obsolete if you want to see more, and can with a newer light.

TEEJ said:

The way I look at it is, that a given beam pattern and output may serve a purpose, whatever that is.

So if a light is bright enough at the needed range and pattern, tint, etc, then its simply going to work in that function.


What tends to happen though, is that we tend to "calibrate" how bright is bright "enough" based upon whatever was allowing us to do something.

So, if all there were were 5 lumen lights with tight beams that put those 5 lumens in a hand print sized circle of light 10' away, but, we could see whatever we were looking for, it was "bright enough".

If it had been 10 lumens, that would ALSO have been bright enough, and so forth....but we would have calibrated ourselves to the 5 lumens as being bright enough as a baseline.


So, as better and better lighting is available, the 5 lumen light is not dimmer, but, there are choices that will let you see more if you want to.


The 5 lumen light is only obsolete if you want to see more, and can with a newer light.

Click to expand...

I agree with your statements, but that is like comparing today's computers to computers from 15 years ago. You can definitely get your Word documents, done on a machine that takes five minutes to boot up and then another one minute to load the application. But it is so much more pleasant to have a boot up time of 15 seconds and instant access to applications.

Also the new lights are not only brighter, but they are incredibly more efficient than the older lights, and I think this is one of the main reasons for upgrading. Because of this, the gap between batteries has considerably narrowed. Things that were originally possible only with 18650 can now easily be done by AA.

For the sake of argument let's assume a 200 lm ceiling for light output (most tasks can be accomplished within this range). Now you have AA lights that will get over two hours runtime versus maybe 30 minutes in the past. Not quite the 8+ hours from 18650, but it's getting close. This is one of the reasons I think the CR 123 lights are becoming less popular because the AA lights are catching up on capability. Eventually AA lights will be able to run eight hours at 200 lm that is a considerable advantage as well as incentive to upgrade over a light that produces the same 200 lm, but has run time of 30 minutes. So in my opinion I think lights do become obsolete. Unless, of course, your tasks are within the specifications of the light (meaning you will never need more then 30 minutes from a light on a specific level without a battery swap).

Knight_Light said:

I agree with your statements, but that is like comparing today's computers to computers from 15 years ago. You can definitely get your Word documents, done on a machine that takes five minutes to boot up and then another one minute to load the application. But it is so much more pleasant to have a boot up time of 15 seconds and instant access to applications.

Also the new lights are not only brighter, but they are incredibly more efficient than the older lights, and I think this is one of the main reasons for upgrading. Because of this, the gap between batteries has considerably narrowed. Things that were originally possible only with 18650 can now easily be done by AA.

For the sake of argument let's assume a 200 lm ceiling for light output (most tasks can be accomplished within this range). Now you have AA lights that will get over two hours runtime versus maybe 30 minutes in the past. Not quite the 8+ hours from 18650, but it's getting close. This is one of the reasons I think the CR 123 lights are becoming less popular because the AA lights are catching up on capability. Eventually AA lights will be able to run eight hours at 200 lm that is a considerable advantage as well as incentive to upgrade over a light that produces the same 200 lm, but has run time of 30 minutes. So in my opinion I think lights do become obsolete. Unless, of course, your tasks are within the specifications of the light (meaning you will never need more then 30 minutes from a light on a specific level without a battery swap).

Click to expand...

The 5 lumen light is only obsolete if you want to see more, and can with a newer light.

Exactly. Its obsolete if you can replace it with a better one for the task.

TEEJ said:

Its obsolete if you can replace it with a better one for the task.

Click to expand...

This statement is very good. It is true that my old Fenix head and Leef body have been replaced by a better one for the task.

I think as long as the light does the job for you it is not obsolete IMO.

LEDninja said:

I am on the wrong side of the 49th parallel and no paypal account. So no BST.

Click to expand...

I no longer use PayPal, and all my most recent transactions, both on the MP proper and on Custom B/S/T, are made without PayPal.

Canadian Money Orders are Available

More Information Here

At under an hour from the border, you could cheaply send payment in Niagara Falls.

That was the dilemma I was having. My old Fenix head and Leef body still work, but now I carry a light that is better for EDC tasks. Obsolete is a subtle concept and the PC example was enlightening. I still have the old Fenix head and Leef body and use it now and then because I really like it.

New products have not passed the test my tried and true lights have. The test of time. Is a car from today better than one made in the past? Probably in most ways, yes. But, lets ask that question again in say, 30 years or so. My 75 dodge is still truckin. Will my 02 ford still be truckin in 2040? Dunno. Just like our old mags, the few that are still stock are just fine. Not as bright, nor do they last as long, but, they work. And will continue to work. Just like my wifes Leef/Fenix combo, nothing wrong with it. And if it ever does fail, vinh or someone can overhaul it and its back to work. A flashlight, and in most cases high performance isn't needed, just something to light the way. And seeing as FOS is still working, good flashlights will never be obsolete. Barring the time when everyone is born with some kind of nightvision.

Oh man, you hit me where it hurts. I drive a 1986 Porsche 911. It is my everyday commute car. No traction control, no anti-lock braking, no AC, bad windshield wipers and it doesn't even have halogen lights. But it is built like a tank and that sound is to die for.

And yes, I can get it serviced without a problem. The turn signal/brights stem was worn out and I got a new one from Porsche (for a reasonable cost).

There are no obsolete lights once the power goes out.

At our house, we normally have a dim LED nightlight on in the bathroom, so if the power is going to be out for a while, I'll put one of my old school EDCs in there on low; presto, now there's still a nightlight. Aside from my own EDC, it's best the wife have something to carry too, so there's another light. And as the ceiling-bounced light in the living room is keeping up morale, you want to be able to move back and forth from the kitchen, so there's another area light on low, etc..

Newer lights put out more light for longer than older lights and they feature modes and things. The question, though, is whether or not that older light still does the job or not? It also depends on what you consider obsolete. In my eyes, older incandescent and early LED technology is considered obsolete because I'm a runtime junkie. That may not be what you consider obsolete, though.

One of the things that I've been doing with my "obsolete" lights has been to upgrade them to LED technology. Incandescent and first/second generation LED lights are being upgraded to XP-G/G2 and XM-L/L2 as well as Nichia 219 emitters.

Knight_Light said:

a boot up time of 15 seconds

Click to expand...

15 seconds? That's a bit slow...

StarHalo said:

There are no obsolete lights once the power goes out.

Click to expand...

Definitely a big +1

But some lights certainly are "better" than others with a general trend toward newer lights being better than older lights.

The trouble is that modern society usually encourages us to think of "obsolete" as meaning "should be replaced and disposed of."

If we take a more literal defininition of "obsolete" such as "Outmoded in design, style, or construction" then an old incan mag is certainly obsolete, however, that does not render it entirely useless.

If you have plenty of charged cells and don't expect a long power outage then any light will suffice in reality. As long as you are not bumping into stuff or tripping over in the dark then your primary need for sufficient emergency lighting is met.
However, if you want to accomplish specific tasks efficiently then you will probably be more selective about your choice.

I guess if you have lights that are continually "pushed to the back of the drawer" because you have newer models you prefer to use, then you could consider them obsolete. But I don't think of my 1980s AA mini-maglite with the Nite Ize conversion as "obsolete" since I occasionally pull it out for little jobs around the house.

People who "collect" lights (many CPF members for instance) will end up having a higher percetage of obsolete lights simply because there is always something newer, brighter and more efficient to chase. On that basis, most of us here probably have "obsolete" lights.

Perhaps a better question is - What do we do plan to do with them?

(Apart from storing them for the upcoming Zombie apocolypse/EMP strike. )

Like PPC said, upgrading your old lights is a smart idea. Sounds more like he was talking about higher quality drop-ins though.

On the low end, think of all the generic 2xAA and 2xD incans floating around. Those were standard for 50 years. You probably have half a dozen in a box in your basement. I know people who still have half a dozen in use. Walmart has a $4 PR2-sized LED bulb. (Also sold at Amazon for $5.) It is hardly a rocket, only twice as bright as an original 3V incan bulb. But the runtime is vastly better. Fairly blue though. Might be worth seeing if the 3V Dorcy circuit can power a modern Cree for improved tint at the same brightness....

More hard numbers and comparisons to other PR2 dropins in this thread.

A lot of my lights are outdated by modern standards. SSC P4, Cree XR-E, MC-E, Jupiter, BS, CS, DS and even Luxeon I and III. They see plenty of use, although most of the Luxeon lights I own see far less use. To me, once Cree usurped Lumileds' seat in power LEDs, all lights since then have been both bright and efficient enough.

I do have more modern lights with XP-E, XP-G, XP-G2, XM-L, Rebel, and 219, but I don't think they are really so much better than the older ones for daily use. I don't need 1000 lumens, I don't need 500 lumens, I don't even need 200 lumens, and I'd still be using my 5 lumens Arc-AAA if the keyring lug hadn't worn out.

My most used lights probably still use the Seoul P4 and the XR-E! They still work great, so I see no reason to stop. I have a Cree XLamp light (remember those?) that I reach for from time to time. Worse yet, I've even got a Nichia BS light that I still love to use, regularly!

It is too easy to get in the cycle of better, better, better, and the thing that always is forgotten is what worked before perfectly will often still work now perfectly. These days, I buy lights because they please me and suit my needs, rather than chasing whatever is the best and brightest new hotness. Just around the corner will always be something 20% brighter.

carrot said:

A lot of my lights are outdated by modern standards. SSC P4, Cree XR-E, MC-E, Jupiter, BS, CS, DS and even Luxeon I and III .... These days, I buy lights because they please me and suit my needs, rather than chasing whatever is the best and brightest new hotness. Just around the corner will always be something 20% brighter.

Click to expand...

Agreed, most of my favorite torches are already discontinued. Emitters like the XP-G warm, XR-E, MC-E, Golden Dragon, and LuxV still work just fine. I guess the "newest" emitter that I really like is the Nichia 119 (not the 219).

Better efficiency is great, but not at the expense of tint. Newer emitters seem to take a while before the better tints become available.

Probably 90% of my tasks needing light can be accomplished with 50 lumens or less :shrug:

I've got plenty of (rechargeable) batteries, too, so if runtime is 10 hours, versus 20, or 40 ... it's all good

My CMG infinity is just as usable as when I first bought it seven years ago, it's a great light to give to the grandkids when they stay over, it doesn't matter if it is left switched on, it isn't too bright if they shine it in each others eyes and it seems to be totally indestructible

Norm