Mule, but not really

I jumped on the solid copper mule sinks that Donn offered in the B/S/T forum recently.
I have enough electronics experience to appreciate the benefits of effective heatsinking.
I've never really considered a mule, now have a completed Neutral XML mule and can see they're pretty useful.

My first attempt I used an SST50,DD. Made a mess really. Soldered leads to LED star first then glued star to sink.
Thick wires resisted attempts to get LED centered. I was really hoping to try with reflectors so tried a bunch of cells until I found my healthiests cell and turned LED blue then killed it.

New build I (cleaned sink 1st) glued LED star 1st then soldered to LED. Much easier, have a decent iron no problem getting hot enough to solder with star attached.
Star seems centered this time. Used a CREE XM-L2 T4 5B1 80+CRI on Noctigon copper pad, Arctic Silver 2 part adhesive.
22 AWG wire and a Nanj105C 3.04A driver with LMH.
Only measured 2.5A at tail first try but with better cell 2.95A on high. Total success except for annoying PWM noise (scream!) on medium.

I used some copper sheet to wrap heatsink (just 1 layer) and fitted to Fivemega 26650 body (the one with the copper front piece).
1st test 15 minutes on high, tailstanding, no fan cooling or hand holding and it got real hot! No surprise. Good to see while tail not as hot as head, still very hot. Seeing it survived that I put a fresh cell and ran again, same way but giving a quick feel every few minutes to see how fast heat gets to tail and it seems fast. So I'm happy I've got good heat transfer to body so handholding this should be a good performer.

Now onto the not really a mule bit. My real plan for these mule sinks is to use with reflectors. With a Z32 Surefire Bezel there is approx 17mm height space for optic or reflector. I've also pulled apart a 1st Surefire KX3 head, have a Solarforce 36mm head and today pulled apart a 3rd gen KL3 Surefire Head. Optic is now in the Solarforce head, works, don't think I've found nirvana yet though..

From here it gets tricky, I don't have a lathe, adapting various reflectors and optics would be far easier with one, I'm going to give it a go though.
Any luck, other CPF members may be doing similar and find a good combo that can be done relatively simply.

Mule, as a mule!

Optic from 3rd gen KL3 in Solarforce head. Malkoff spacer for M2 head helping to center the optic.
Hot spot is square, a little messy, not too bad. Not sure if optic would stay there or would be prone to moving if bumped.



Z32 Head MCR20 Reflector. I think reflector is touching the lens, but battery has pushed sink forward a few mm.
Would need a spacer / centering ring for a good job.

the optic is a good idea, hopefully someone else comes up with more variants. I was thinking about building a mule with a noctigon MTG2, but much prefer traditional reflector/optic setups.

outersquare said:

the optic is a good idea, hopefully someone else comes up with more variants. I was thinking about building a mule with a noctigon MTG2, but much prefer traditional reflector/optic setups.

Click to expand...

Go for it. I'm happy to copy

I have a winner (for now). 10 degree Cree XML Optic in Z32 bezel. Used rubber grommet from 1st gen KL3 head.
Bezel ring does not screw all the way down but I don't have proper tool. Might go down all the way with proper tool or use thinner glass.
Used a bit of thermal adhesive to glue optic in place, clamped with Z44 bezel which just makes it to the threads.
I have a benchmark now.

Clamping while adhesive cures.
Looking like a malkoff..


In the Z32:

Pretty neat, would you be able to throw a few beam shots, or even better a profile shot to get an idea for the angle of the beam.

I also got a copper heat sink from Donn, but went a little different way with my build:


x3 Nichias and the same 3.0A driver you're using. I took this picture prior to final centering.

The three 219s provide a healthy amount of light! But then I decided I wanted a tad less flood and threw a frosted Carclo optic in front:



I'm pretty happy with the result so far, but interested to see how others are building them up. I imagine the route I took is pretty popular..

creyc said:

Pretty neat, would you be able to throw a few beam shots, or even better a profile shot to get an idea for the angle of the beam.
I also got a copper heat sink from Donn, but went a little different way with my build:
x3 Nichias and the same 3.0A driver you're using. I took this picture prior to final centering.
The three 219s provide a healthy amount of light! But then I decided I wanted a tad less flood and threw a frosted Carclo optic in front:
I'm pretty happy with the result so far, but interested to see how others are building them up. I imagine the route I took is pretty popular..

Click to expand...

I will do beam shots. It's like a Malkoff M60 (optics) but wider hot spot.

I do like triple Nichia - Nailbender has posted me a 4 amp triple on Donn's copper sink.
I have an EDC triple Nichia and at 2Amps it's good...almost p[erfect except it's H-M-L, backwards top my preference.
Planning to try fitting optics to the nailbender triple.

Does your triple fit in a std Z44 bezel?

Chodes said:

I will do beam shots. It's like a Malkoff M60 (optics) but wider hot spot.

I do like triple Nichia - Nailbender has posted me a 4 amp triple on Donn's copper sink.
I have an EDC triple Nichia and at 2Amps it's good...almost p[erfect except it's H-M-L, backwards top my preference.
Planning to try fitting optics to the nailbender triple.

Does your triple fit in a std Z44 bezel?

Click to expand...

Yes, it fits in my factory Z44, Cryos cooling bezel, and my L2m hosts. A single wrap of aluminum foil seals the deal in the Surefire host, and I use the large outer spring for the Solarforce hosts.

creyc said:

Pretty neat, would you be able to throw a few beam shots, or even better a profile shot to get an idea for the angle of the beam.

I also got a copper heat sink from Donn, but went a little different way with my build:

x3 Nichias and the same 3.0A driver you're using. I took this picture prior to final centering.

The three 219s provide a healthy amount of light! But then I decided I wanted a tad less flood and threw a frosted Carclo optic in front:

I'm pretty happy with the result so far, but interested to see how others are building them up. I imagine the route I took is pretty popular..

Click to expand...

I'm interested to know how you place the optic in the mule?
Or did u do further modifications to it?

- JonK

creyc said:

Yes, it fits in my factory Z44, Cryos cooling bezel, and my L2m hosts. A single wrap of aluminum foil seals the deal in the Surefire host, and I use the large outer spring for the Solarforce hosts.

Click to expand...

That's a little troubling that it still needs foil to fit, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the mule? Or is there that much variation between revisions of surefire hosts?

outersquare said:

That's a little troubling that it still needs foil to fit, doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of the mule? Or is there that much variation between revisions of surefire hosts?

Click to expand...

The foil just makes the electrical connection I believe, it doesn't light up without it.

I can't think of anything bad about a bit of tape, unless you've heard of something?

The z32 bezel idea is cool, i was only thinking about this yesterday as i have a Z32 and possibly have another soon.

i have a 9P with a malkoff HCRI and a UCL frosted lense and thought to myself why not try a mule seen as im loosing so much light with all the frosted lenses i've tried latley. id love a tripple with a neutral tint and as you say the Z32 is deeper leaving room for more heatsink or reflector.

Top work buddy :thumbsup:

Taking care of the finer details. I needed a magnet to make contact to driver spring.
Those driver springs are short and the copper insert on these hosts is thicker than al equivalent.
As that copper piece is not anodized and is negative polarity, this simple solution provides added required length as well as providing some insulation in case of cell shrinkwrap damage in a drop. Slip in piece so easy to clean brass contact too. It sits away from the copper a few mm, compresses against it with cell installed.

Chodes said:

Taking care of the finer details. I needed a magnet to make contact to driver spring.
Those driver springs are short and the copper insert on these hosts is thicker than al equivalent.
As that copper piece is not anodized and is negative polarity, this simple solution provides added required length as well as providing some insulation in case of cell shrinkwrap damage in a drop. Slip in piece so easy to clean brass contact too. It sits away from the copper a few mm, compresses against it with cell installed.

Click to expand...

Why not just change to a longer spring?

- JonK

creyc said:

The foil just makes the electrical connection I believe, it doesn't light up without it.

I can't think of anything bad about a bit of tape, unless you've heard of something?

Click to expand...

I believe the adhesive is the one small bad thing about the tapes since they might prevent the heat from escaping.
Other than that it is pretty damm neat

- JonK

DellSuperman said:

Why not just change to a longer spring?

- JonK

Click to expand...

A number of reasons.
Mule sink is tightly jammed in the body. It required 1 layer of copper sheet for a very tight fit. It will come out, but will need some force. I did that for good thermal transfer.
As this is a "hacked"build - I can't just remove the bezel (maybe I can...) I assembled by installing bezel, then rubber grommet, then lens.
As I have a centered optic and it's working well, happy to avoid pulling apart.
The part I made also provides protection from cell shorting on the copper part of the body.

Beamshots.
2 metres distance (7 ft 9)
1/25sec F5.6 ISO100

Mule. XML2 T4 5B Cree 10 degree Optic