LED Warning!

Got a Streamlight TT 2C from BrightGuy yesterday. While looking over the package for the country of origion, I found the following warning:

"LED RADIATION-AVOID DIRECT EYE EXPOSURE - CLASS 2 LED PRODUCT. Maxium LED output <67mW; Per IEC-60825-1 Edidtion 1.2 2001-08"

Anyone have any ideal what that's all about?

Oh, yes.....it's made in China.

uh.....

LED radiation? Class 2? Am I missing out on some key piece of info, or is this "radiation" the harmless kind?

-Jason

It's sorta like the "warning" that came with my new ladder.

"If you use this ladder, you may fall off, and break your ***", or something to that effect.

"EYE SAFETY ISSUES Currently, the LED industry has no universally agreed upon standard to cover eye safety issues associated with the use of LED products. The closest is CEI/IEC 60825-1, used in Europe, which was originally developed for lasers. It was later amended to include LED's, but some in the industry have reservations as to the applicability of this standard to LED's. Under this standard, the OTLH-0010-BU (470nm) and OTLH-0020-GN (530nm) are class 2 LED products and carry the warning: LED RADIATION DO NOT STARE INTO BEAM (for 470nm and 530nm Sharks) CLASS 2 LED PRODUCT For the OTLH-0030-AM (590nm) and the OTLH-0040-RD (630nm), the standard rates them as a class 1 LED product and requires the explanatory label: CLASS 1 LED PRODUCT (for 590nm and 630nm Sharks)"

Full PDF Here

Technically, every flashlight emits radiation.... electromagnetic radiation, AKA "light".

IMHO, there is no reason to believe that there are any safety issues with using LEDs that would not apply to high intensity incandescents. Common sense is the rule - don't stare at it.

James - ROTFLMAO!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

What about shining lights into the eyes of pets?

led radiation?
so thats what comes out of my shotgun when i fire it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That sign is now the official background on my computer!

JamesS,
I love that sign /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

[ QUOTE ]
James S said:


[/ QUOTE ]
Dang it, now I've gotta clean coffee off of my screen again! LOL. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Anyone old enough to read is safe from these hazards.
Don't let your kids get hurt just because you love your flashlights.
It's painless, it's gradual, it's cumulative, and the damage won't do a child any good at all.

And it's avoidable. Cites at the end, after I boil over for a moment:
<rant on>
Hey, want to make a homebuild X-ray machine? I can tell you how, from a couple of parts you can find in many junk collections even today -- Scientific American published the directions with a photo of the author's bones done at home, just as Dr. Roentgen did the first time, in their Amateur Scientist column.

That was the 1950s, when we kids could also stand on top of a fluoroscope -- X-ray source -- at many shoe stores and admire how your toes looked inside the shoes.

Nobody got hurt by those things. Right? You'd know, if they had. Right? Not that they noticed at the time anyhow. It's a statistical thing, shows up over time in population studies.

Blue light, for example -- ordinary blue sky light, scattered in the atmosphere. Photons from the far blue range are strong enough to knock an electron off an atom, making a reactive ion, causing a chemical change in the tissue. Slightly longer (less energetic) wavelength photons can't do that.

Macular degeneration (central blindness) is a normal part of aging, affecting most people eventually. It's slow damage. It's slow learning about it, too. Blue light causes it. Sunglasses, "blue blockers" especially, are recommended -- for lifetime use, to reduce cumulative damage. That was news a few years ago.

Opthalmologists no longer (as of a year or so ago) use a bright _blue_ light to examine the back of your eyes; they are now filtering the blue end of that source. Only two people were described in the journals as having been blinded, by careless overlong use of those lights; opthalmologists learn fast.

Ultraviolet (a bit beyond the far blue) photons carry yet more energy and transfer more when absorbed. We used to think (a few years ago) that it was only the strong end of the UV range (UV-B in atmosphere, UV-C in space) that did damage. People with great tans don't learn so fast.
<rant off>

Cites -- some that I turned up a year ago -- are at:

Cafe topic (just search for "blue light")

Or just search for "blue light" in the Cafe.

Cheers!

Oh, that reminds me --

From the Naval Safety Office "Picture of the Week" collection:

Naval Safety Office -- Picture of the Week -- Signs

Hmmm... this all get's me to wondering about my black light. Do you think that it could cause longterm damage to the eye after prolonged exposure to it. I have one here in my room which makes things look pretty groovy and all butI just now turned it off after reading these posts. It must emit more ultra violet radion then typical home lighting, as it charges up my glow powder pretty darn quick! So what do you guy's think about black light.. safe or not?

I was thinking exactly the same thing...
In addition to the Blacklight I have, I also just Built a 3x123 McLux with PR Head and a Royal Blue 5W R5WY. I marvel at the sheer coverage of light and heat it puts out. You can easily feel it on your skin over an identically configured 5 Watt White LS... (Both are direct drive). It just bathes the room in rich bright (almost blacklight) blue. It is most enjoyable to just play with and or show off to others... Never looked or plan to look directly into it but how dangerous is this light?
Should I put it in the safe?

So now is this a bad thing??? ahhh killin me.. If so, it would figure as all the really cool stuff is always bad for you....

*Sigh...

[ QUOTE ]
hank said:
Anyone old enough to read is safe from these hazards.
...

[/ QUOTE ]
I must disagree with this one part of your otherwise excellent response. Just because someone is old enough to read the warning doesn't make them smart enough to follow it.

It isn't the fact that there is something different about the light from visible LASERs (though it is coherent). It is the fact that its power is tightly concentrated just like many modern LEDs.

BTW I'm not shouting LASER, it is an acronym just like LED (and ZIP as in ZIP code).

George

[Warning - huge rant coming /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ]

[ QUOTE ]
Blue light, for example -- ordinary blue sky light, scattered in the atmosphere. Photons from the far blue range are strong enough to knock an electron off an atom, making a reactive ion, causing a chemical change in the tissue. Slightly longer (less energetic) wavelength photons can't do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So now we can't go outside and enjoy a sunny day and look at the sky... What's next? Living secluded in caves deep underground wrapped in bubble paper so we're all safe from any harm? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

If someone stares at a blue LED 2MM from their eye for an extended period they are fool, plain and simple. Kind of like setting your walkman to "10" and pressing the earphones against your ears... All the warning lables/cautionary tales/documented evidence in the world won't stop some people from doing it.

Blue and UV LED light bothers my eyes, so I take that as a queue not to play around with them much. Common sense - something that a lot of people must be lacking these days with the proliferation of all these warning lables.

LASER safety is different from LED safety because the light is so concentrated with LASERs. LEDs spread the light over a much broader area thereby greatly reducing the intensity of the exposure. In normal use (let me say that again - normal use) they are, for all intents and purposes, harmless. Inverse square law, anyone?

If you work in an industrial laser lab, then damn right you should have LASER safety glasses on all the time! Playing with an LED flashlight? I don't think so.

My whole point here is that we should not go around starting some sort of panic among the uninitiated about LED lights by quoting indirect evidence. I fully expect that some reactionary extremist idiot will be sending around a chain spam e-mail about the nonexistant "Extreme dangers of LED lights" as a result of these types of "warnings".

The possibility that there could be long term problems that gradually build due to exposure to intense LED light sources needs to be balanced with a good dose of reality and, more importantly, quality of life. "Negligable risk" would probably be an appropriate description. Yes, you should protect your eyes. No, you shouldn't wear a welder's mask when using LED flashlights or rush to the opthamologist if you got a brief flash of blue LED light in your eyes (or forgot your sunglasses, or enjoy your blacklight once in a while for that matter.)

Personally, I'd be much more concerned about getting killed in a car accident TODAY than worried about losing a tiny fraction of my vision 40 years from now (if I live that long) from exposure to UV lights in comedy clubs, using a blue Photon II, or leaving my sunglasses home on a sunny day.

People need to focus on what counts and not get overly concerned with the minor risks we encounter on a daily basis lest they become paranoid to the point of total inaction.

Live secluded in a cave if you like, but I'm going to go out and enjoy the sunshine, patronize establishments with blacklights on occasion, and play with my LED lights at night.

[End of rant - I feel better now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif - these are my own views and in no way should this post be taken personally by anyone. ]

I think your rant makes a lot of sense Quickbeam.

I am still curious about these LED warning labels though. If light intensity was the sole reason for the label, then wouldn't incandescents have them too? Or do they already have them and I'm not looking in the right place? There must be another reason besides light intensity for placing that label there.

I wonder why that LED warning label is there in the first place. However, i'm not surprised that it is there. In today's world, "common sense" just isn't common enough. There are probably some people that try to get a kick out of flashing lights directly into their eyes.

I certainly didn't mean to belittle the danger by my posting of the silly sign. There is a difference between signs and training necessary for work where you are basically forced to work with dangerous things and the home where you choose to bring them in.

When I buy a table saw for my home I am responsible for understanding the risks and taking any steps I feel are necessary to protect myself and my family from it. When you're on the job they are required to train you and put up signs and lockout switches and the like. That is all good. higher powered lasers are more like table saws than LED's. One fraction of a second of a miscalculation or a loss of concentration and you can be blind, forever.

LED's require a bit less concentration I think. At least the ones used in the flashlights we carry. I don't believe I've seen any royal blue or dental blue luxeon flashlights for sale commercially. I would expect them to carry more of a warning as they are more dangerous to you long term. But if you make it yourself, then you're responsible to yourself for taking the proper precautions. It's one thing if you have no way to know that what you're working with is dangerous, but in this case they are including the labels for you, take them seriously.

When I'm 105 and living in a nursing home I want to still be able to see my screen so that I can read CPF and be a curmudgeon for the newbies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Hard to do that if I go blind from looking at LED's. There are far better ways t go blind than that...