Experiment:HID retrofit into highbeam.

Disclaimer: Technically speaking this modification is ILLEGAL in most areas and was performed purely for information gathering purposes. Extremely limited testing was performed on public roads and the kit has been removed from the vehicle. It is up to you as an individual to decide if you wish to perform such a modification however neither I nor this site will be held responsible for any actions taken against you or any damage incurred to you or your vehicle.

Premise: To see if an HID retrofit into the highbeam lights on my 2012 Citroen Grand Picasso would improve the range of them and act as a reasonable substitute to auxiliary driving lights. Without the benefit of proper test equipment I parked the car 3 meters from the roller door in my warehouse and eyeballed it, I also took the vehicle to a deserted road facing a vacant paddock, phone went flat so no photos.

H1 Halogen on the left, 6000k HID on the right. Straight away you can see the stray light, it was actually worse in person. It was actually lighting up the roof with stray light.

Head on, please note these are the highbeam lights, 6000k HID on left halogen on right. Again the glare was worse in person.
Actual field testing wasn't that good, there was no appreciable improvement in range, and imho that colour is awful to drive with. Especially with how good my, halogen and staying that way, low beam is.
I got the feeling that with the price, AUD$50, and the very blue colour this kit is aimed more at people who want to be SEEN to have HID rather then people who actually NEED HID.
Conclusion, this test reinforced my opinion that HID retrofits into reflectors designed for halogen is a bad idea and a waste of money.

H'mm. Not seeing any photos, but your description lines up well with...um...I forget, what's it called again? Oh yeah: reality.

There are other good reasons not to put an "HID kit" into high beams, too: the slow rise time to full intensity is a safety issue, and the giant increase in foreground light caused by the defocused light source with 3x the intended flux would absolutely destroy the driver's distance vision.

I don't think these could increase foreground light, lowbeam produces an incredible about as it is, which is probably why I couldn't perceive any improvement.
And yes, the slow rise time to full intensity is an issue.
The thing that surprised me was the almost complete lack of improvement, makes me wonder how HID kits "improve" auxiliary driving lights which would have a similar, or worse, reflector design then my highbeams.
As I said, it's almost is if this particular kit was aimed at people who want to be seen to have HID.

The HID capsule generally sticks out too far relative to the bowl depth. That makes the beam unfocused and random, hence lighting the ceiling, etc. I found on some, that the beam projected was actually fully upside down, so a strip of aluminum tape across the BOTTOM of the lens created a cut off of the TOP of the beam.

Its why you simply can't just stick any bulb into any reflector and expect it to work except by shear coincidence, etc.

You can sometimes get a crazy amount of foreground light, which, unfortunately, is interpreted by the ricers, etc, as "BEING CRAZY BRIGHT!!!!", so they actually think it "worked great" etc....but - don't even know that they are in danger/dangerous.

irsa76 said:

I don't think these could increase foreground light

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But they do, for a few reasons. If the arc is even very slightly forward or rearward of where the filament is intended to be (which is usually the case with an "HID kit"), the beam is defocused, which means light is shifted away from the center of the beam and towards its extremities, including downward into the foreground. Also, the HID arc is shaped like a crescent (ends pointing down, arch up), rather than a straight-sided cylinder. Moving the light source up relative to the reflector axis will shift the beam pattern down, and the arched shape of the HID light source is effectively "moved up" compared to the straight shape of the filament.

lowbeam produces an incredible about as it is, which is probably why I couldn't perceive any improvement.

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It's not an improvement, it's a worsening (far too much foreground light).

The thing that surprised me was the almost complete lack of improvement, makes me wonder how HID kits "improve" auxiliary driving lights which would have a similar, or worse, reflector design then my highbeams.

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The same way they "improve" low beams (not at all).

TEEJ said:

"BEING CRAZY BRIGHT!!!!"

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You misspelled "BLING".

Did some more testing last night, went home the long way via a deserted back road. In a nut shell, to say there was little improvement is actually overstating it, I was actually able to see more with highbeam OFF! Anyone who says that HID retrofits into a reflector designed for halogen is a good thing is a fool who is saying that just to justify why they paid money for the kit. In my case I'm out AUD$50, less then some proper halogen globes but still more then I think the kit is worth, loose change. As an aside, I had to retension the bulb retainer springs when I reinstalled the halogen globes tonight, which were noticeably better then the HID.
Conclusion:In this particular case HID retrofit kits are a dangerous waste of money. I say dangerous because you actually have LESS light output where you need it. And I'm willing to bet the same result will occur no matter what reflector you install them into .

I'm sure you meant to say every case.

Alaric Darconville said:

I'm sure you meant to say every case.

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While I do believe you are correct in that statement, I'm not going to say it in case by some fluke there is a reflector where this modification yeilds an acceptable result.
And by acceptable I mean passes any regulatary test it would be required too.

TEEJ said:

You can sometimes get a crazy amount of foreground light, which, unfortunately, is interpreted by the ricers, etc, as "BEING CRAZY BRIGHT!!!!", so they actually think it "worked great" etc....but - don't even know that they are in danger/dangerous.

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Ah yes.... I made a LOT of overtime going to court writing tickets for HID installs. Oh well, just a memory. R +2 (retired Jan. 1)

Scheinwerfermann said:

You misspelled "BLING".

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Ha Ha!



I can't type with rice in my eyes.

That's what you generally see around these parts of the antipodes. The glare coming from the corona or halo area is very offputting. And it seems to be worse with a 'High Performance HID retrofit kit' ( read; highly illegal and dangerous ) that's been INSTALLED ( !? ) in yellowing or smokey, polycarb covered reflector assemblies. Yes, it does make you notice the ' Other Car '!!!!

irsa76 said:

While I do believe you are correct in that statement, I'm not going to say it in case by some fluke there is a reflector where this modification yeilds an acceptable result.
And by acceptable I mean passes any regulatary test it would be required too.

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Never. None. Not EVER ever, because that headlamp then wouldn't have ever passed any test with a halogen bulb.

harro said:

That's what you generally see around these parts of the antipodes. The glare coming from the corona or halo area is very offputting. And it seems to be worse with a 'High Performance HID retrofit kit' ( read; highly illegal and dangerous ) that's been INSTALLED ( !? ) in yellowing or smokey, polycarb covered reflector assemblies. Yes, it does make you notice the ' Other Car '!!!!

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I passed a Civic yesterday in my Sequoia and the glare was so bad I noticed it from my seating position which is at least 2-3x as high as the Civic's.
It's a shame there was a car in front of me because I really wanted to show him how bright 4 high beams really are

Remember, that's my highbeam so thankfully glare would only be a problem if I didn't dip the lights fast enough.
In saying that the photo is actually darkened from what it really was like so it would be pretty dangerous to come around a corner and be met with that.
As an aside, years ago I got pulled over because I blinded a highway patrol officer who crested a rise ahead of me. At the time I had 80/130w in the headlights, 130w in the factory highbeam "driving lights" and 100w globes in Cibie Oscar SC, 1 spread/cornering light and 1 pencil beam. All aimed with beam setter so actually didn't produce much glare, unless you happen crest a rise ahead of me before I dipped them. I hate to image the result with that mess in the "better" headlights I have now, wish I still had the Cibies.

irsa76 said:

Remember, that's my highbeam so thankfully glare would only be a problem if I didn't dip the lights fast enough.
In saying that the photo is actually darkened from what it really was like so it would be pretty dangerous to come around a corner and be met with that.
As an aside, years ago I got pulled over because I blinded a highway patrol officer who crested a rise ahead of me. At the time I had 80/130w in the headlights, 130w in the factory highbeam "driving lights" and 100w globes in Cibie Oscar SC, 1 spread/cornering light and 1 pencil beam. All aimed with beam setter so actually didn't produce much glare, unless you happen crest a rise ahead of me before I dipped them. I hate to image the result with that mess in the "better" headlights I have now, wish I still had the Cibies.

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Of course, the above wattages are illegal in most places to have on the road unless covered, etc...which avoids that "Ooops when cresting" etc.

They were illegal then, I just didn't tell the officer that. And ended up swapping everything to legal wattage not long after because they all blew, overwattage globes have a rather short life span. As do Cibie Oscar SC reflectors when fitted with 100w globes, they over heat and burn the resin body.

Errr...what resin body? The Cibie Oscar SCs used a stamped steel reflector. Some of the late-production ones may have used a resin bulb seat, is that what you mean?

Scheinwerfermann said:

Errr...what resin body? The Cibie Oscar SCs used a stamped steel reflector. Some of the late-production ones may have used a resin bulb seat, is that what you mean?

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I know the bulb seat was certainly resin, for some reason I'm thinking the reflector was as well although I offloaded those lights a few years ago so I can't remember exactly, probably were steel. Certainly the reflector it self was showing signs of discoloration probably due to heat, I usually had the lights on for a few hours at a time so they did get pretty hot.

I wouldnt mind if the HIDs on my car would even need longer till full brightness,
that basically is what sets them apart - the ramp-up-show

(as long as they stay the same slightly warm-to-neutral white, like they are now)


the key is to think while driving (a problem, I admit)
high speed ramp-up for HID - more stress on the parts (?) - has only been built into car headlamps because of these "oh, I am entering an unlit tunnel? Where is that light switch?" -people. For them even the speedy process is not quick enough



PS: I do not wonder Your original lights are this good.
till last year, I drove a Xantia and I often drove my grandpa's CX when I got my licence ... their lights were great. Same for the 205 I had before the Xantia.
(in general french cars seem to have else total superb lights, or shitty ones. No in-between)