will my collection last long enough for my kids/grandkids to enjoy

If I keep some of my more interesting torches boxed up without any batteries installed how long realistically will they keep stored in good condition. For example if I wrapped up a sunwayman m40a (just one I picked I know its nothing special) and kept it away for decades as a collectors piece, could I realistically expect it to still be useable in future years? Do circuits and leds naturally degrade when not used?

Baring catastrophic events, yes properly stored modern electronic devices should survive for a good decade or better. However, there will be natural degradation on o-rings; which will still require infrequent maintenance.

Not to hijack your thread but, I'm wondering how to replace Trit vials encapsulated into their retaining slots. Save removal by machining, anybody got any ideas?

Placing a desiccant packet inside the battery tube will help absorb any moisture present in the air when the tube is closed, which should aid in protecting the electronics.

Cree says their LEDs have an indefinite shelf life if kept dry. Barring any static discharges, I don't see any reason why the electronics and LED shouldn't last many decades. Metal and glass parts should be fine, too. Any lens coatings should last decades, as long as they don't get any fungus or bacteria on them, but shouldn't if kept dry. As mentioned, rubber or silicone parts may deteriorate. Plastic may become more brittle over time, so any moving parts (like a switch) would be a concern, but I'd expect they'd be okay for a few decades.

Whether grandkids would actually want to use a decades-old flashlight is another matter...

LedTed I sent you a PM in regards to your trit removal question.

For all intents and purposes, if the o-rings and seals are lubed well, and the light is tightly sealed in something along with a dessicant pack, indefinitely.

No, your grandkids will not enjoy a 30 year old flashlight.

They will have lightsabers.

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Cree says their LEDs have an indefinite shelf life if kept dry. Barring any static discharges, I don't see any reason why the electronics and LED shouldn't last many decades. Metal and glass parts should be fine, too. Any lens coatings should last decades, as long as they don't get any fungus or bacteria on them, but shouldn't if kept dry. As mentioned, rubber or silicone parts may deteriorate. Plastic may become more brittle over time, so any moving parts (like a switch) would be a concern, but I'd expect they'd be okay for a few decades.

Whether grandkids would actually want to use a decades-old flashlight is another matter...

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Makes sense. Though i bet even in 30 years a 2000 lumen flashlight will still be impressive versus household flashlights

torchsarecool said:

Makes sense. Though i bet even in 30 years a 2000 lumen flashlight will still be impressive versus household flashlights

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LOL

I doubt that.

LED lights are becoming more and more common, and Home Depot, etc, are carrying much MUCH more powerful lights today than they did 10 years ago.

In 30 years, LED may not even be the state of the art, and something else may have replaced them in flashlights.

IE: A "Household Flashlight" might BE over 2,000 L in 30 years...there are already 1,000 L versions on the shelves, and that at least doubling that in 30 years is expected based merely on the current pace of advances. They may decide to top off lumens at some point in favor of longer run times, etc....but what new technology develops in the meantime will help to dictate these directions.


30 years ago, (~1984), how many lumens did a household flashlight produce?

30 years later, how many lumens can an off the shelf household flashlight produce?

In ANOTHER 30 years (~ 2044), how many lumens can an off the shelf (If we even need shelves by then...?), household flashlight produce?





Its far more likely that in 30 years, the battery technology will have moved on, the emitter options will have evolved, the form factors will have evolved, and your antique 2,000 L heirloom will not be seen as impressive in output, but, may be viewed as an example of what grandpa used to have to use to see at night with in the olden days.

IE: They will see a 30 year old light the way you see 30 year old lights now.


Enjoy them NOW...while they ARE the best you can use.

I retire lights from my rotation when I fond something that does a better job....and if someone wants to see a battered and well used example of an antique flashlight later, that's fine. I don't want to buy a light and save it for a future museum (Some people might want to of course...but, not me)

Interesting theory. Certainly technology is advancing day after day. But I cant imagine having a 10000 lumen monster hanging around the spare key drawer waiting for when I need to change a lightbulb. Think anything over 1500 lumen will always be the premise of the flashaholics or professionals who need them. Normal people wont ever have the need or even want mega high output lights. Theyd be useless in most household situations and quite honestly id not let my kids anywhere near it.

I have a 3D Maglite that I bought 25-years ago that is still in good working order and will probably be around for another two-decades. I would be surprised if a good quality modern LED flashlight couldn't survive at least as long.

TEEJ said:

Its far more likely that in 30 years, the battery technology will have moved on, the emitter options will have evolved, the form factors will have evolved, and your antique 2,000 L heirloom will not be seen as impressive in output, but, may be viewed as an example of what grandpa used to have to use to see at night with in the olden days.

IE: They will see a 30 year old light the way you see 30 year old lights now.

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You've forgotten about diminishing returns. Except for special purposes (such as search and rescue), I think the average flashlight has gotten about as bright as it can while still being practical. Sure, people might be able to get their hands on a 5000 lumen monster some day, but that will be far too bright for most situations. The human eye isn't going to change in the future, and I suspect most people will be perfectly fine using 100 lumens or less even if they have access to something much brighter.

the.Mtn.Man said:

You've forgotten about diminishing returns. Except for special purposes (such as search and rescue), I think the average flashlight has gotten about as bright as it can while still being practical. Sure, people might be able to get their hands on a 5000 lumen monster some day, but that will be far too bright for most situations. The human eye isn't going to change in the future, and I suspect most people will be perfectly fine using 100 lumens or less even if they have access to something much brighter.

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That depends on how someone uses a flashlight. For shining a focused beam directly on something close, then yes, 100 lumens is enough. But if you want to light up a whole room (during a power outage, for example), then 5000 lumens isn't unreasonably bright. It's the equivalent of about three 100 watt incandescent light bulbs. That's really not a lot of light for an entire room, especially if it's a fairly large room.

If I could get a reasonably efficient portable 5000 lumen light, with appropriate battery power, I'd want it. I think most people would too, as long as it wasn't too expensive and they could pick it up off the shelf at their Home Depot.

In 30 years, I think that kind of light is very possible. Certainly the emitter tech will be there. It's the battery tech I'm unsure about, but will probably be close.

Even 100 lumens is sufficient to light up an average sized room, especially if you bounce it off the ceiling.

My point is only that for the most part, flashlights have gotten sufficiently bright, and most people really won't benefit from anything brighter. In other words, we've reached the point of diminishing returns.

the.Mtn.Man said:

Even 100 lumens is sufficient to light up an average sized room, especially if you bounce it off the ceiling.

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Not for doing tasks like reading, or other things that require fine detail work. At least, not for many people, myself included.

My point is only that for the most part, flashlights have gotten sufficiently bright, and most people really won't benefit from anything brighter. In other words, we've reached the point of diminishing returns.

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That's probably what people said when LED flashlights came out with a whopping 30 lumens. Or when the first dim electric lights started to replace candlelight. Who would need any more light than a few candles to light up a room?

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Not for doing tasks like reading, or other things that require fine detail work. At least, not for many people, myself included.

That's probably what people said when LED flashlights came out with a whopping 30 lumens. Or when the first dim electric lights started to replace candlelight. Who would need any more light than a few candles to light up a room?

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If you need to read or do fine detail work then it would probably be better to have a direct light source. You gave an example of lighting up a room during a power outage, and 100 lumens is more than sufficient for such a task even if it's not ideal.

We're already at the point where one can easily purchase a 2000 lumen light, so it's not a matter of simply having to settle for the current limits of technology. Even with such super-bright lights on the market, anything in excess of 100 lumens is overkill for most situations and can easily put you in the predicament of having too much light, which is almost as bad as having too little.

I'd think the o-rings and rubber switchboots would eventually degrade. The rest of the light should last indefinitely.

I'd probably remove the o-ring(s), give them a good coat of silicon grease, and put them in a separate plastic bag. That way they wouldn't deform from decades of pressure on them. I'd put one or more batteries in another bag; partly so you'd have them when you open the package years later, and partly to see how the batteries hold up over time. Then I'd seal up all the items with a desiccant pack and maybe an oxygen absorber, (I'd have to research that to see if there'd be any advantage) in a vacuum pack using a FoodSaver® type vacuum sealer. Then put that in a Ziplock® bag with the box and accessories and another desiccant pack.
Probably good to go for more than 100 years, though the batteries may be toast. In 100 years you'll probably 3D print a CR123 adapter to fit the micro-fusion-battery into the antique light anyway.

the.Mtn.Man said:

If you need to read or do fine detail work then it would probably be better to have a direct light source. You gave an example of lighting up a room during a power outage, and 100 lumens is more than sufficient for such a task even if it's not ideal.

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What if I want to play a family board game? Okay, nobody does that anymore during normal times, but they might if there was a power outage. Board games require a fair amount of light to see colours well and to read cards/instructions/etc. You don't want everyone to wear headlamps, because if they look at you they shine a light in your eyes. So a bright room light is ideal. 100 lumens just won't cut it, especially in a low-CRI cool-white.

We probably don't need 5000 lumens, but don't underestimate the public's desire for a lot of light. Downtown streets, malls, office buildings, etc., don't need to be illuminated so brightly, but they are because people like it that way. If I can get a 5000 lumen light, I'll take it, even if I don't use it that bright most of the time. And outside, it could very well come in handy quite a bit. 100 lumens outside is pretty pathetic if you want to see past 20 or 30 metres.

Back when that's all you could get, people said 5 lumens is all you'll ever need!

No one could imagine needing more than 5 lumens, that was BRIGHT!


The facts are that we have a good amount of data that tells us how much light we should have for tasks to avoid eyestrain, and be able to see a sufficient amount of detail.

The data is in terms of lux, not lumens of course, as that's a more relevant parameter for lighting.


If you do the math, to get enough lux to reach MINIMUM recommended lighting levels, for many tasks, a 200 or even 2,000 lumen output would not be physically able to create a large enough pool of light to create usable lux levels.

Simply making a beam more floody means that the same lumen output is psread out over a larger surface area, reducing the lux. To get the SAME lux with a wider beam REQUIRES more lumens.


So, even if it "can't be imagined", it will be useful in the future, as, that's how it always plays out when people make statements implying that progress is over.