So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ... (Irony and red light)

... and it gets dark - imagine that.

We had been out of touch for quite some time so he didn't know that I had become a flashlight junkie. I had my 2xAAA penlight LD01/Streamlight EDC combo, and my SF 6Z with a single-mode XPG triple in reserve. The first part of our route was reasonably well-lit via the twilight, but the second half was a rocky descent and heavily wooded with oaks etc. I fired up my penlight on 'low' as that was all that was necessary to ensure our footing - it was DARK, no moon etc.

So my friend said that what I really needed was red light to preserve my night vision (he mentioned that a couple of times in fact), and then went on about how when he was in the Scouts they insisted on red filters for night hiking, to the point of ominous threats (for a kid of course) if light discipline was violated. Not that he was complaining about my ~15 lumens - we most certainly needed it - but that he was of the decided opinion that red light was much better. Not even beginning the debate between dim red and dim green for the best maintenance of night vision, I had no comment & just listened to his narrative good-naturedly. 'Cuz he wasn't carrying any flashlight at all.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Should have turned it off! LOL! J/K

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

that was a difficult moment, right there..

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

You were a truer scout than he was that evening: you were prepared and he was not.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Kestrel said:

... and it gets dark - imagine that.

We had been out of touch for quite some time so he didn't know that I had become a flashlight junkie. I had my 2xAAA penlight LD01/Streamlight EDC combo, and my SF 6Z with a single-mode XPG triple in reserve. The first part of our route was reasonably well-lit via the twilight, but the second half was a rocky descent and heavily wooded with oaks etc. I fired up my penlight on 'low' as that was all that was necessary to ensure our footing - it was DARK, no moon etc.

So my friend said that what I really needed was red light to preserve my night vision (he mentioned that a couple of times in fact), and then went on about how when he was in the Scouts they insisted on red filters for night hiking, to the point of ominous threats (for a kid of course) if light discipline was violated. Not that he was complaining about my ~15 lumens - we most certainly needed it - but that he was of the decided opinion that red light was much better. Not even beginning the debate between dim red and dim green for the best maintenance of night vision, I had no comment & just listened to his narrative good-naturedly. 'Cuz he wasn't carrying any flashlight at all.

Click to expand...

Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from the movie, Con Air. Define irony.



~ Chance

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

scs said:

You were a truer scout than he was that evening: you were prepared and he was not.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, the BEST light at any given time is the one you actually have one you.

Good job OP for being prepared, even if your buddy didnt appreciate it as much as he should have.

Similar situation:

Stayed late at work one day, had my sk68 with me on a 14500. I placed it on the roof of the truck lighting up the truck bed and the whole front yard well enoughfor us to grap our tools and put them away. My buddy asked me if i had anything brighter or an extra for him as my sk68 wasnt bright enough for him. To which i responded "use your cellphone light"

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Thanks for the feedback, I know I'm with 'normal' people here.

Yes, if I had been quicker-witted or perhaps a little less subtle I should have invited him to turn his light on instead, lol.
5000th post, not that anyone's counting ...

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Rider57 said:

Couldn't agree more, the BEST light at any given time is the one you actually have one you.

Click to expand...

well said, something is better than nothing.. a nitecore tube does that for me..

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

I like pulling out my E05 when it gets dark and then getting to argue that it is not a trick?

Happy 5K too!

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

RWT1405 said:

Should have turned it off! LOL! J/K

Click to expand...

Yeah. *Click* (light off)
"OK, you win. Turn on that red light of yours, and let's get going!"
(Pause...) "Uhhhh... I don't have it on me!"
"Shut up about it then, at least I had the sense to be PREPARED for this situation! What kind of scout did they teach you to be, anyway?"

Would have been priceless!

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Amelia said:

Yeah. *Click* (light off)
"OK, you win. Turn on that red light of yours, and let's get going!"
(Pause...) "Uhhhh... I don't have it on me!"
"Shut up about it then, at least I had the sense to be PREPARED for this situation! What kind of scout did they teach you to be, anyway?"

Would have been priceless!

Click to expand...

Lol. nice.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Amelia said:

Yeah. *Click* (light off)
"OK, you win. Turn on that red light of yours, and let's get going!"
(Pause...) "Uhhhh... I don't have it on me!"
"Shut up about it then, at least I had the sense to be PREPARED for this situation! What kind of scout did they teach you to be, anyway?"

Would have been priceless!

Click to expand...

Ha ha ha yes!

I mean who brags about how crafty and prepared of a scout he was taught to be, then starts a hike late afternoon and doesnt bring atleast one light? Or his whole collection to try them out oh no thats just us, but atleast one cmon

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Red is good for preserving night vision but choices are limited - something the unprepared friend probably didn't realize.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Actually, I think his preference for using a red light for a night hike in the woods is kinda dumb. It's true you can use a brighter red light than a white light, and maintain night vision. But, the red light will not light up any objects that don't contain at least some red (or white/gray) colouring. This could be really bad for stumbling through a dark green forest, not seeing much foliage because it looks black. Everything looks either black, white, or grey. Any distinction of colours is impossible, which makes stumbling into rocks or stumps or trees much more likely than if you used a dim white light.

Red light is great for reading maps, or books, when you need a bright light to make out detail, and there's no colour to see anyway. Otherwise, use a white light on a low mode.

Red light is also good for not ruining the night vision of others around you, such as at an astronomy party.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

WalkIntoTheLight said:

Actually, I think his preference for using a red light for a night hike in the woods is kinda dumb. It's true you can use a brighter red light than a white light, and maintain night vision. But, the red light will not light up any objects that don't contain at least some red (or white/gray) colouring. This could be really bad for stumbling through a dark green forest, not seeing much foliage because it looks black. Everything looks either black, white, or grey. Any distinction of colours is impossible, which makes stumbling into rocks or stumps or trees much more likely than if you used a dim white light.

Red light is great for reading maps, or books, when you need a bright light to make out detail, and there's no colour to see anyway. Otherwise, use a white light on a low mode.

Red light is also good for not ruining the night vision of others around you, such as at an astronomy party.

Click to expand...

That has been my experience with Red emitters and night hiking. Red just makes everything more difficult to navigate through, and when you get a red light bright enough to really hike efficiently, it's bright enough that it wrecks your night vision anyway. I still occasionally hike with a low-level red headlamp, but only on smooth, well maintained trails.

There is SO much misinformation out there about colored emitters and night vision... I'd say probably 80 or 90 percent of what you hear or read on the internet about it is incorrect.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

I thought the red thing started with lighting instruments in a plane or boat/ship, where all you needed light for was to read a gauge or compass. With limited experience and no knowledge, I prefer a low level of white light for walking around - I agree with WalkIntoTheLight and Amelia that red doesn't seem useful for walking around.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

...so I'm walking with my girlfriend who stole my clothes, managed to get the Zebralight out first.

I said "All you get is my programmed L2."

She got offended. It was dark, we both had night adapted vision. Did I make another mistake? Another quarrel because someone didn't know what "battery vampirism" and "firefly mode" means. Now I'm the weirdo.

H1 might have caused uncomfortable glare.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

1DaveN said:

I thought the red thing started with lighting instruments in a plane or boat/ship, where all you needed light for was to read a gauge or compass. With limited experience and no knowledge, I prefer a low level of white light for walking around - I agree with WalkIntoTheLight and Amelia that red doesn't seem useful for walking around.

Click to expand...

There is an actual physiological reason that red wavelengths help preserve dark-adapted vision ("night vision"). It has to do with a certain pigment that builds up in the rods of the retina. The more of this pigment that builds up over time, the better your eyes can see whatever small scatterings of photons happen to strike the eye. This pigment is destroyed (which is what allows you to see the photons) by wavelengths shorter than 640 (I think) nanometers... which is in the red wavelengths. Anything of a longer wavelength does not affect this pigment AS MUCH... but you can still bleach it out with a bright enough red light. So...

To attain and preserve dark-adapted vision, you need:

(a) A light in the mid-to-deep red wavelengths (green, blue, etc. will NOT work)
(b) Very low lumens output (my own tests indicate 10 Lum or less, at least for me)
(c) Time for the pigment in the eyes to actually build up since the last exposure to bright light, at least 15-20 minutes for most people to reach an acceptable, useful level of dark adaptation.

Many people erroneously believe that if they just go out in the dark and turn on a red light, they will somehow have full adapted night vision if they turn off the light. It doesn't work that way. A large majority of people who know about dark adapted vision think that any red light, at any brightness, will allow them to retain whatever dark adaptation their eyes have built up. Also not true. You need a DIM light, in the deeper red (NOT ORANGE) wavelengths, and ONLY after your eyes have undergone dark adaptation for 15 or 20 minutes minimum.

Because of my main hobby and recreational activity (night hiking), I have studied this a lot and done a lot of experiments to see what works and what doesn't. I have found that if you have a VERY dim (firefly mode) white light, and use ONLY enough light to barely see your way around, you can preserve most of your dark adapted vision. If you use red, it is VERY important to keep the output level low. Any more, if I'm really concerned about actually preserving my dark-adapted vision, I use my lights as little as possible, and when I do I typically use a white light in moonlight mode, shielding most of the light with my index finger so only a sliver of it escapes to illuminate in front of me... but only enough to see what I need to.

Green light to preserve night vision is a MYTH!!! This comes from the practice of aircraft pilots using green lights to view console instrumentation, in order to keep the backlighting from "seeing" a brighter background light level and kicking up the backlight level to compensate... blinding the pilot temporarily. Anyone selling you a green light to preserve your dark adapted vision is selling you a bill of goods... it will NOT work, and you will be wasting your money. Buyer beware.

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

+1 great explanation

Re: So I'm hiking with a friend late one evening ...

Nice write up Ameila,

When I was flying a lot in the 80s the sectional chart for. San Diego had a warning in red letters: CAUTION INTENSIVE JET TRAFFIC, with a line pointing to the then Mirimar NAS. In white light you could see it fine, in red light it vanished from the chart. Completely. Very handy!

I remember LA Center had routed us real close and almost over Mirimar and to contact San Diego approach control, there were F14s buzzing us from all directions in the dark. I loved it and my passenger was horrified from the noise and the wake they produced was amazing.

I kept looking at him and laughing, they are not going to hit us. That was a fun flight.

After that, I kept a red light for just looking in the cabin for something, but for charts, night vision or not I use a white light.

As as for green light, what is the best use for that?

I still love red lights looking through a room at night they do reflect back less light, as to not be as visible, or wake people up. Using very low lumens, if course.