How many lumen/lux output can the highest amperge 18650 drive?

Dr. Tweedbucket

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.... like a 3400 mAh battery using the latest highest powered LED? :confused:

My interest is the most compact light with the highest fire power. The most I've seen so far is like 1080 lumens out of a single 18650. How much more headroom is there with that battery?
 

RetroTechie

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If the battery were the only limitation, you could do 10 times that - or more. Example:

Let's say you take an 18650 that can handle 30A continuous. @3.?? volt that's in the order of 100W.
Let's say you have some power conversion circuitry in between that's 95% efficient, or even better. Or you pick LEDs with such characteristics that they're an ideal match for direct drive (battery -> LED(s), nothing in between).
Let's say those LEDs put out 100 lm/W (or more). Multiply those figures and you arrive in 10k+ lumens territory.

But... apart from runtime, batteries are (usually) not the bottleneck. A whole bunch of other factors is:

-The heat dissipated by those LEDs (easily ~2/3 of electric power that goes in).
-The temperature difference that heat flow causes between LED die, LED housing, base it's mounted on, and the rest of the light that acts as heatsink.
-Maximum temperature of the LED die.
-The amount of heat that light as a whole can shed. Perhaps using your hand, air cooling for the rest.
-Amount of heat your hand will accept before you burn yourself.
-Electrical resistance of wires, switch, contact area's, conducting parts of LED die, etc. Most of those can be quite low, but those resistances are there, and they add up.
-Maximum current you can put through bond wires that connect a LED die to its housing.
-If there's voltage conversion circuitry between battery and LED(s), efficiency of that. 90%+ is very, very good. Lower efficiency is much more common / likely.
-LED efficiency drops at higher die temperature.
-Physical size of all those parts.

All of which make that ~1000 lm is a good figure for a reasonable size, 1x 18650 powered light. You'll quickly notice that more powerful lights are bigger - a lot of that has to do with heatsinking issues.

As LED technology improves and that waste heat is reduced, we may see some 1500~2000+ lm lights in 1x 18650 size (in the future). But theoretical limits to that are approaching too.

Btw: for high lux numbers you just need an accurately shaped reflector... ;)
 

TEEJ

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.... like a 3400 mAh battery using the latest highest powered LED? :confused:

My interest is the most compact light with the highest fire power. The most I've seen so far is like 1080 lumens out of a single 18650. How much more headroom is there with that battery?

You're sort of asking what the top speed and fastest 1/4 mile times for a car might be, if the hose between the engine and gas tank was "this big".

:D

Its just more complicated than that.

For example, how long does it have to run at that output? Make it short enough, and the numbers skyrocket....etc.
 

Dr. Tweedbucket

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If the battery were the only limitation, you could do 10 times that - or more. ;)


I didn't think about the heat issue, but yeah it wouldn't take too long to melt things if there was no electronic thermal management. That's a tough issue to solve unless they attached some huge copper fins or something.

Thanks RT, that was a good explanation. :)
 

Phlogiston

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The BLF A6 is supposed to hit 1200lm off the shelf, or 1500lm when modified, but it has a very fast stepdown time of 30 - 45 seconds at that level because it gets so hot, which brings us back to RetroTechie's explanation above.

I believe Vinh Nguyen and others can modify lights to go brighter still, but they're also subject to the physical limitations of getting the power into the LED and getting the heat out.
 

ChrisGarrett

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Zebralight SC600 Mk III in cool white. XHP 50 and 1300+ lumens and some are stating that it pulls 5A. I would want one of the newer hybrids, like the S/P NCR-GA, or the LG MJ1. Both offer 10A continuous and have decent capacity at ~3500mAh, although not quite at 10A.

Chris
 
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