Looking for battery advice!! Rechardables for the workplace.

Hello all.
I work a relatively large paper mill (900 employees) and am thinking about trying to introduce rechargeable batteries into the plant. The company stocks and supplies all workers with two different models of Pelican led lights, one model uses two AA batteries and the other uses two 3 volt batteries.

As it is a old plant with poor lighting, flashlights are a must have and in turn so are batteries. We have an unlimited supply of non rechargables that creates buckets full of waste batteries on a weekly basis. I am not a "tree hugger"but am kind of concerned about all of this waste going into the landfill.

I have taken it apon myself to at least look into the possibility of either replacing our current line of lights with a rechargeable model or trying to start a rechargeable battery program.

So I came here looking for any advice on this subject, as far as does it make sense to even try this?? What brands of batteries or lights would anyaone recommend, or any other input on this subject.

Thanks in advance for any help at all on to this..

Hi, Welcome to CPF. Forget about the Pelicans & use a single cell 18650 light. Fenix PD35Tac is a good one, there are many more. This won't be cheap initially, will be a good investment though.

Many light options, but for fuel i would look into sanyo eneloops in AA size. These being LSD(low self discharge) and being a forgiving chemistry(run down and left flat etc) will be ideal as a battery for the general user. It can maintain over 70% charge after 5yrs left alone(not sure how accurate that claim actually is though but i can say eneloops are one of the best nimh cells out).

Lights wise, be them single or dual AA fed, Fenix offer some good solid cheap options without complicated UI.

Although unlikely , 18650 do present a very low fire risk if left unattended on cheap chargers or shorted out(not good in a paper mill!!!). Also to educate many users on the chemistry and charging/discharging side............well as you know. You can put a big sign up with "DO NOT TOUCH" and someone will!!! so reducing any risk imo is priority and with up to 900 employees thats a big task to educate and actually for many to understand. Its just a battery and a flashlight! many think that way and to an extent it is! But with high powered cells, there are risks for the ignorant towards them.

Most people dont care for or have interest in, they just want to press a switch and light come out...........if it does not, swap the battery and go again.

Just thoughts

:welcome:

While I agree with Ven 100% on the Eneloop suggestion, I would propose that you will also have to change the culture for this to be successful. Years ago I worked with a group of people who needed to carry portable walkie talkies while at work. They had Nicad battery packs and a drop in charger. Initially we issued a charger and radio to each person. After a month or so this didn't work. People never remembered to charge their battery packs and ended up with flat radios at work. Finally we just asked them to leave them at the end of the day and I made sure each went into a charge station so they would be fresh the next morning. We had 5(!!) employees.

With 900 hundred employees you could make the case for eneloops and an inexpensive 2 bay charger per flashlight (keep the Pelicans initially). But you can't possibly collect and charge 900 flashlights every day so you would have to encourage each person to manage their own. Might be a tough culture change (especially if, as most people) the staff sees a flashlight as a commodity that they don't ever think about except to change flat batteries.

Good luck to you.

This may be a case that calls for lights with integrated non-removable battery packs and cradle chargers. I used to run a lab where people could check equipment in and out. Keeping track of separate rechargeable cells was a total nightmare. And we're talking 50 users max.

Look for something along the lines of a Streamlight Strion.

With 900 employees, I know you have a tool crib. The same attendant that passes out the alkaline batteries can be responsible for passing out Eneloops on the AA lights. For the two 3 volt battery lights, I assume that the batteries are CR123 powered. I don't know if Streamlight lights can use the 16430/RCR123 battery or not.

IMO, the easiest way to go is to have the crib attendant charging the batteries. He's not going to like being the battery b*tch, but unless you go that route, chargers and batteries will walk. I would inquire with Panasonic/Eneloop about custom wrapping with the company name on them.

The next easiest method is departmental charging stations with one change of batteries per light. Multi-slot chargers like the Powerx C808 charges 8 batteries at a time and takes less than an hour for full charge. It doesn't hurt anything to leave batteries on the charger overnight or a weekend for that matter.

We had around 1900 people of which maybe 250 used a light often enough to justify rechargeable batteries. They were made departmental supply. The rest of the employees used throw-aways provided you had a battery to turn in.

Agree WRT to the eneloops, low risk, simple and forgiving and relatively affordable if lost as some no doubt will be.
The simplest way of managing charging might to have a number of good quality multi way chargers at one or two central locations.

Any worker needing fresh batteries simply hands in the used cells and is given freshly charged ones in return. A 12 bay charger with a 1 hour cycle would charge nearly 100 batteries per 8 hour work day, or over 200 in a 24 hour day.
Several such chargers would meet the needs of even 900 employees.

Have as many chargers as needed, plus a complete spare locked away. Place charged cells in racks or compartment boxes so as to keep them tidy and facilitate use in strict rotation.
Presuming that 2 cell lights are used, you will need about 3,000 cells. 1,800 in the employees lights, about 900 charged and ready for use, and about 300 on charge or awaiting charging.
The 900 charged batteries would give an almost instant battery change for half of the total staff, together with more replacements at the rate of a few dozen an hour.

Keep say 1,000 alkalines locked away in case of any emergency.

I agree with the Eneloop suggestion (especially since you already have AA lights) and a lot else that's been said so far. The one thing I'd add is that I wouldn't be surprised if there are chargers that charge very large numbers of batteries at once. The reason I assume such things exist is that I know there are things that charge 2 dozen laptop batteries at once. It seems like there must be commercial chargers for other things as well, including Eneloops.

Would suggest you call your nearest trade centre that supplies your workshop needs and invest in Eneloop or similar pre-charged batteries together with a quantity of simple and cost effective chargers.At present in the UK, we have Fujitsu pre-charged on offer, bought some to try and buying more now.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Hello all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for the detailed info and opinions on this matter, I was really surprised at the amount of time and effort that was put into replying to this thread from the folks on this site (especially from me being a complete noobie) so thanks again. Having said that, I am going to have to do some more research into this and see how much support I will get from upper management or possible even the environmental department.

The very first thing that will be a concern is safety, I was not really aware of the potential safety risks involved with using the rechargeable lights using an 18650 battery that was mentioned in this thread. If there is any increase in risk at all this option will not work as my company is extremely safety conscience. I might be able to sell the company on supplying a better light using the 18650 battery for us maintenance folks (with me responsible for charging and distribution) but as far as plant-wide I think it would be a " no go".

So as I look further into this tomorrow with some of my fellow co-workers and supervisors I will present some of the options you guys supplied me with and see what we can come up with. Thanks again for all your help.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Well, 900 people using even 2 AA NiMH rechargeable batteries is going to be 1800 batteries with no spares on hand. Here's an idea of what Fujitsu 2000mAh AAs sell for by the case and perhaps you can contact the seller for volume pricing, as he's now a US Distributor:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160-AA-20X8...071929?hash=item2ca8f33439:g:ou0AAOSwGotWiHR7

160 batteries for $375 shipped and you're going to need around 12 cases, so that's $4,000 right there less volume discount.

That problem aside, how are you going to charge them? We're talking industrial scale chargers and most probably more than a few of them. I think that there are 20 bay chargers that I've seen, for the consumer, but that's not really feasible.

Here's an AccuPower 16 bay AA charger that charges up at 500mA, so a fully depleted Fujitsu 2000mAh AA will take 4+ hours to charge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AccuPower-A...169254?hash=item4d35261226:g:JxIAAOSwhh5TpiB3

Who's going to manage charging them all up? How are you going to charge them up and still power the lights? You could get 24 cases, for $8,000 and have one set charging and the other set in use, but you'd need full time employees just to do that.

Now, if you're only dealing with a fraction of those 900 lights, say 100 batteries a day getting charged, than your options are more reasonable, but somebody's gotta be there monitoring things and frankly, that might be more trouble than it's worth?

Chris

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Carbin said:

Hello all,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for the detailed info and opinions on this matter, I was really surprised at the amount of time and effort that was put into replying to this thread from the folks on this site (especially from me being a complete noobie) so thanks again. Having said that, I am going to have to do some more research into this and see how much support I will get from upper management or possible even the environmental department.

The very first thing that will be a concern is safety, I was not really aware of the potential safety risks involved with using the rechargeable lights using an 18650 battery that was mentioned in this thread. If there is any increase in risk at all this option will not work as my company is extremely safety conscience. I might be able to sell the company on supplying a better light using the 18650 battery for us maintenance folks (with me responsible for charging and distribution) but as far as plant-wide I think it would be a " no go".

So as I look further into this tomorrow with some of my fellow co-workers and supervisors I will present some of the options you guys supplied me with and see what we can come up with. Thanks again for all your help.

Click to expand...

Would not worry too much about safety and batteries, just common sense and following the manufacturers printed instruction is all that is required on your part, anything more suggested is just complicating and making unnecessary work.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

mcnair55 said:

Would not worry too much about safety and batteries, just common sense and following the manufacturers printed instruction is all that is required on your part, anything more suggested is just complicating and making unnecessary work.

Click to expand...

In any population of 900 people, there's going to be at least one who doesn't have a lick of common sense. (And maybe one who can't read.)

Let's imagine someone absent-mindedly chucking a damaged 18650 cell into a toolbox. Or putting one in a pocket with his keys. Is it likely to vent with flame? No. Could it? Yes.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Kudzu said:

In any population of 900 people, there's going to be at least one who doesn't have a lick of common sense. (And maybe one who can't read.)

Let's imagine someone absent-mindedly chucking a damaged 18650 cell into a toolbox. Or putting one in a pocket with his keys. Is it likely to vent with flame? No. Could it? Yes.

Click to expand...

I do not understand your comment, let me think this through ok I have it because this company is unlike any other and out of 900 there may be one or more without common sense you need another set of rules I presume you are getting at, just getting my anorak out to walk the dog.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Ok thanks for the input so far.
Today I met with one of the environmental people and he was onboard with me doing a small "test" in my immediate department.
So if anyone is still following this thread I will be looking to purchase maybe a dozen or two AA cells, after doing some looking around on this site it looks like Eneloop is one of the top brands. They will be used to power our hand held overhead crane remote controls and a few of our Led flashlights. I assume I don't need the pro batteries for the remotes but maybe for the flashlights.
If anyone would like to recommend a suitable charger maybe 4 or 8 bay that would be great, I believe some one made a suggestion in an earlier post so (I will go back and reread them all).
Thank you all again for your support in this matter..

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Carbin said:

Ok thanks for the input so far.
Today I met with one of the environmental people and he was onboard with me doing a small "test" in my immediate department.
So if anyone is still following this thread I will be looking to purchase maybe a dozen or two AA cells, after doing some looking around on this site it looks like Eneloop is one of the top brands. They will be used to power our hand held overhead crane remote controls and a few of our Led flashlights. I assume I don't need the pro batteries for the remotes but maybe for the flashlights.
If anyone would like to recommend a suitable charger maybe 4 or 8 bay that would be great, I believe some one made a suggestion in an earlier post so (I will go back and reread them all).
Thank you all again for your support in this matter..

Click to expand...

Since this is a professional setting and you're not a hobbyist, I'd recommend a Maha 808M 8 bay smart charger for your Eneloops/Fujitsu AAs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerEx-MH-...hash=item35b915bcf6:m:mPojKbiQrMScotXj6ahHOMA

It has two charging rates, 2A and a 1A soft charge, so your standard 2000mAh Eneloops will charge up in 1 hour, or 2, depending on how quickly you need them.

This is a quality multi bay charger that will do AA/AAA/C/D NiMH batteries, so you're covered in the event you need to go to the bigger batteries.

That's my seller there and he's very good. The charger isn't cheap, but it does more than 4 at a time and does them well.

After your trial run, you can figure something else out, based on volume.

How much is your company spending on just AA batteries and how often are they spending that?

How long does a typical pair of AA batteries last your guys, on average?

Do all 900 employees have flashlights?

Those are important questions for making the rechargeable battery option economically feasible.

Chris

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Hello Carbin --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:



VERY interesting thread here !


_

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Hello, If anyone is still interested I thought I would give a brief update on my progress with trying to introduce rechargeable batteries into the workplace.
I had some success and also some failure in this small test at work so far. First of all, I purchased an Opus BT-C3100 charger and two dozen Duracell AA NiMH batteries. After getting things set up I placed the charger and batteries in a location where a few of us meet before we start our shift and explained how to use and charger the batteries.
After a week or two, the guys and myself with the AA powered lights got into a routine of just popping fresh batteries in at the beginning of the shift and this seems to be working out fairly well, this was the success. The failure that I had was in trying to run these batteries in the various crane and hoist remote controls thru out my work area. The batteries seemed to operate the remotes ok but after a being installed for a very short time the "Low battery" light would come on and folks operating these remotes immediately started to change out the rechargeables with our standard alkaline batt and condemned these batteries as junk. I assume the crane remote light doesn't like the lower voltage of the NiMH batteries, so when time permits I am going to look into these remotes and see if there is a setting or programming that can be done to facilitate the use of rechargeables without the "low batt" light coming on.
Thanks again for all your help and assistance so far in this matter.

Re: Looking for battery advice!! Rechargeables for the workplace.

Carbin said:

The failure that I had was in trying to run these batteries in the various crane and hoist remote controls thru out my work area. The batteries seemed to operate the remotes ok but after a being installed for a very short time the "Low battery" light would come on and folks operating these remotes immediately started to change out the rechargeables with our standard alkaline batt and condemned these batteries as junk. I assume the crane remote light doesn't like the lower voltage of the NiMH batteries, so when time permits I am going to look into these remotes and see if there is a setting or programming that can be done to facilitate the use of rechargeables without the "low batt" light coming on.

Thanks again for all your help and assistance so far in this matter.

Click to expand...

One test to perform is to just continue running the remotes, even if the 'low battery' indicator light comes on and just see how long they indeed last?

Perhaps they endure much longer, but you'd also have to let the operators know that as long as the remote is working normally, they need to disregard the 'low battery' light.

This might create more problems, but it would be interesting to see.

Chris

Thank you Chris for this and all your other helpful posts!!
I do plan on running the test that you mentioned but I want to be there for the full length of the test to keep track of the run times as some of the operators are not completely on board with what I'm trying to accomplish..