Collected Hand Beamshots XPG, N219b, E01, and more!

XPG 3000k:


N219b 4000k:

E01:

thanks to staticx57 for these

staticx57 said:

cool white low CRI XML2:

5700k 219b high CRI.:

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Thanks to twistedraven for these

twistedraven said:

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Great thread topic and far more informative than words alone could ever be。

whats the point of hand beamshots without shadow puppets!

Manker Lad w N219c 4000k


Lumintop Copper Worm with N219b 4500k:


Astrolux M03 w N219b 5000k?

I think for reference we should all post picture of our hands in noon day clear sky direct sunlight. This is ideal lighting and what we measure lights against.

staticx57 said:

I think for reference we should all post picture of our hands in noon day clear sky direct sunlight. This is ideal lighting and what we measure lights against.

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It makes for a nice reference point, but for the fact that some of us don't measure our lights against the cooler light of midday sun.

I don't know if there are other ways better for those not interested in cooler tints but the only thing I use for personal comparisons is the lights themselves, in settings lacking additional ambient light bleed. If I was a photographer, I may prefer clinically correct tints, or if I were in a scientific field even, maybe so, but however, I'm an end user who has little interest in cold light coming from all of my lights, especially my standard carry choices.

Your idea of high noon comparison shots sounds like a really good starting point, which could also benefit us end users great even better yet with some other comparison points for those with preference for warmer tints too.

jon_slider said:

Thanks to twistedraven for these

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Love the Nichias most, especially the BV1. The B makes the entire hand pink at reduced contrast, but still better than all the others. The EasyWhite pales in comparison and the XHP35, yuck! Sickly green.

I got to hand it to you for taking a hand full off pictures and posting them. You nailed it and they really point out the differences in tints. I applaud you! :twothumbs

Kaichu Dento lucky for us the sun varies it's temp throughout the day. Sunrise and sunset offer nice full spectrum warm colors. Halogen lighting also offers a predictable 3200k full spectrum color set.

staticx57 said:

I think for reference we should all post picture of our hands in noon day clear sky direct sunlight. This is ideal lighting and what we measure lights against.

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Im not on board with this idea, but invite your demonstration.
imho, LEDs and sunlight will never be the same, and I do not expect my LED lights to imitate noonday sun. When I use my flashlights, it is usually not during a time when my eyes are adapted to the color temp of noon sun. More often Im in a setting where the ambient light my brain is adapted to is at 3-5000 k. In some cases I use my lights in full darkness, a color temperature of Zero

so for me, what Im looking to discover by shooting my hand, is how much the blood shows ;-).. by that I mean, Im looking for some realistic pink tint..

what the hand shots clearly demonstrate, for me, is when an LED has a Yellow TINT, or otherwise. My appreciation for the photos relative to each other, has nothing to do with what my hand looks like in the sun.

Since LEDs are such poor representations of sunlight, all I expect of them, is that they not skew the color of what I illuminate, into tints above the BBL, green, and yellow. Without any reference to the sun, I can tell by looking at the excellent photo twistedraven posted, which of the LEDs has the most "realistic" TINT. This does not have to do with Color Temperature, as much as it does with TINT. And by TINT I mean color shift off the BBL..

My interest in TINT is also the reason I do NOT want to massage photos to a particular white balance for "daylight". There are endless differences of opinion on what CCT daylight is, and changing the white balance changes the Color Temperature of the photo, but even after doing so, TINT is still the variable that IM trying to distinguish.

imho CRI is all about RED rendering, so no matter what CCT the LED is at, what Im looking for is its ability to show a hand with a lifelike TINT, not Color Temperature

disclaimer, Im a newbie, have no technical knowledge, and these are my opinions, based on what I know today. I reserve the right to disagree with myself, subject to further education

The hand shots I post, are grouped, so I can see the relative difference of the LEDs tested, between each other, at the particular time when the images are shot, at whatever ambient illumination happens to be present.

The hand images are not absolutely color accurate, nor comparable, across different photo shoots, due to differences in white balance and ambient light. fwiw, all my pics use auto white balance on my iPhone 5. The only control I have over the white balance, is dependent on the lights in the photo, and the ambient light at the time.

so the relevance of a group of photos is only among that particular group.. its the Relative Tint of the photos that tells the story, not the absolute color temperature of noonday sun.

staticx57 said:

Kaichu Dento lucky for us the sun varies it's temp throughout the day.

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Glad to see some others starting to recognize this, finally. Been saying it for years now, strong preference for the late sun over midday.

jon_slider said:

...LEDs and sunlight will never be the same, and I do not expect my LED lights to imitate noonday sun. When I use my flashlights, it is usually not during a time when my eyes are adapted to the color temp of noon sun. More often Im in a setting where the ambient light my brain is adapted to is at 3-5000 k. In some cases I use my lights in full darkness, a color temperature of Zero

imho CRI is all about RED rendering, so no matter what CCT the LED is at, what Im looking for is its ability to show a hand with a lifelike TINT, not Color Temperature

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Hear, hear, and well stated! We know what things should look like, and most of us are not trying to replicate full daylight expect those owning million-XP-L lights. I want to be able to tell colors from each other, but with a leaning towards warm incan-like output.

So, some thoughts on what I expect from a flashlight. Others have different needs. I expect my flashlight to replace a candle or a fire, not the sun, because I use my flashlight during the time of day when the sun has already set.

That is not to say that there are not people who have a need to use a flashlight during the time of day when the sun is shining. Car mechanics for example, especially when looking under a car that is in the sun, will want hundreds of lumens of very Cool White light. Trying to use my AAA Tool w Nichia in that scenario is totally ineffective, dim and orange.

When a mechanic is working outdoors in the noonday sun, he does not need High CRI, there is plenty of that going around already. He just needs to increase the lumens in the shadows under the car, in the engine bay, etc. So a mechanic may very well want an LED that is similar to the sun.

I otoh, use small AAA lights with Nichias, to walk through the house at the end of the evening.. to look under the couch during the day, indoors, and to light my way to the bathroom in the dark. For my needs at that time, a light that looks like a candle, or a flame, instead of full blown sunlight, is a good thing.

It is tempting, and narrow minded, for me to be a tint snob and presume that since I don't want a cool white light, then people who do are wrong. I think if we are in the same scenario, we will have similar preferences regarding Color Temperature, and tint.

The perceived personal differences, as far as I can tell so far, stem primarily from the setting in which each person envisions using their light, and the role that it has to perform. Distance, target size, background lighting.. all change our preferred light. A hunter does not use the same light to spot game, as he does to go pee in the middle of the night..

I think you get my drift. So if people want to share sunlight photos of their hand, with and without a flashlight beam, I think that is totally valid too.

I get a kick out of this pic, it really sums up thousands of words in a nutshell for me

I think we would all agree that the middle beam is the most lifelike , its a 4000k Nichia 219b. The left beam is a 3000k XPG.. in the middle of the night, it is more pleasant than the Nichia.. go figure..

I went looking for a graphic to show how much the sun does or does not resemble LED lighting.. here is one example


then I found another one that shows me Incandescent is not like sunlight either. So Sunlight, Incandescent, and LED light are each different..


It seems I have preferences driven primarily by the ambient light where I plan to use the flashlight. Nothing wrong with cool white when working as a daytime mechanic.. Different Color Temperature need, than walking through the house at the end of an evening curled up by a warm fire.

I really appreciate everyones contributions to the conversation.. Im learning a lot, its helping me be more broadminded, and less judgmental. Please keep the pics coming Use any lighting you want to illustrate a group of LEDs appearance in that setting. Give us a hand