Project Light

kb0rrg

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The Petzal Mega, even with the halogen bulb, was just not sufficient for high speed mountain biking in the woods, in the dark. I can not afford/justify one of the fancy off-the-shelf biking light ($150- 300). So I set out to build a better light.

The heart of any light is the bulb. I have found a bulb/reflector assembly that is commonly available at Walmart or Target stores. It is 50 watts and 12 volts...about 4 amps. About $5. The reflector is made of glass and is coated with something to make it reflective. It has an integrated glass lens. The glass may be Pyrex, I don't know. This bulb is commonly used in track lighting that is becoming very popular in architectural lighting (fancy cafeterias, coffee shops, and art galleries). I have been playing with this lamp assembly for a while now. I would describe the beam pattern as a moderate spot. The beam is flawless; I don't own any SF lights but I don't think that they could be any better. No rings or wedges at all. Very white. The diameter of the reflector is about 2"

The hardest part about the project was developing a holder for the bulb/reflector. It is an odd shape, and gets quite hot. It just so happens that it fits perfectly into the head of a Maglite if the mag reflector is removed. The only problem is that when the outer ring is installed, it does not hold the bulb tightly from moving in and out. There is about .150" of movement. I attempted to grind the ring and head in such a way to allow it to tighten a bit more. I was able to get the movement down to .020", but this still allowed the bulb to rattle...unacceptable. I wanted to put a spacer ring in there to take up the space, but I had no means to machine such a part. Instead, I made a 2" ring out of aluminum antenna grounding wire. This was put into the outer ring of the Maglite. When reassembled, the bulb was very securely mounted...I was happy. Wires were soldered directly to the bulb. Some light from the bulb passes through the reflector to the backside of the light. This light appears blue and can be seen from behind since the back of the Maglite head is open. I actually like this because cars can see me better from behind. I did not want to use any materials that could not withstand high temperatures. The Lexan lens from the Maglite was not used as it was not necessary and would have surly melted. In hind sight, the wire ring is all that is needed, the grinding was not necessary. Five .250" holes were drilled into the head of the light. This was to help with cooling, reduce the weight slightly and to allow cars to see me from the side.

The battery was the next part. I bought a sealed lead acid battery for multi-purpose use. I recently installed a bilge pump in my sailboat (500gph, 1 amp) so I will be using the battery for this too. It has a capacity of 7.4 Ah. I am guessing that that will give me a run time for the light of about 1 hour. (I do not want to run the battery too low) One hour would be sufficient for my needs. I estimate the weight to be 7 lbs. It is kinda heavy, but I guess that I will just have to deal with it. Lighter batteries exist, but for $20 this will work for now.

A flat spot was ground in the Mag head and two holes were drilled and tapped to allow for mounting to my helmet. I wanted a helmet mounted configuration so that there is always light in the area where I am looking and the vibration from the road is not transferred directly to the bulb. I built a quick release bracket to attach it to the helmet and installed a switch. I left a 12" wire hanging from the light where a quick disconnect electrical connector was installed. This is for convenience and safety. It should pull apart if the wire were to snag something instead of applying a dangerous torque to my neck...ouch!

Initially I wanted to mount the battery on my bike rack. But I had worries about the extreme pounding that is would be subjected to. The trails are very rough. In addition, it was cumbersome to run a wire from the bike to my head. It was always in the way, and I had to unplug every time I got off. The solution was to put the battery in a waist pack that I wear for x-county skiing and long bike trips. This has an advanced strap system with shoulder straps. I am quite accustom to carrying 5-10 lbs in this pack and found it to be very comfortable with the 7lb battery. Since the entire system is on me, there is no need to constantly plug/unplug and I can walk away from the bike with the light still operating. Before I took my test ride, I mounted a mini-mag holder to the bike frame. The mini-mag would serve my low speed, smooth terrain needs (like hill climbing) when 50 watts was unnecessary.

The big light turned night into day. AWSOME The beam pattern and shape was perfect. I Could see as far as I wanted, but still had more than enough sidelight to see EVERYTHING. I did not have to hold back at all. Full speed. It almost takes the fun out of night riding. No problems with heat. I was only running it in 2-5 minute bursts while on difficult or fast sections. Plus, the 10-20 MPH of forced air convection from the wind aided cooling. These bulbs are designed to run at a 100% duty cycle without a wind blowing across it. The mini mag was running the whole time, but it was too dim even at low speeds. I need to upgrade to something in the 4-8 watt range for my mid power option. There was some difficulty when the light was turned on while riding. It is so bright, that there is a slight disorientation and momentary blindness, but it only lasts a second or two. Since it is only on half the time, I expect I could ride about 2 hours.

I don't know what the lumen rating of the light is. According to Brock's site a 12PM/M6 is about 30 watts and 500 lumens. My light is 50 watts. Most car headlights are 55w each. If my light has a similar efficiency, then my light is nearly 700 lum. This is a very rough figure though. My best light is a 3D mag, and that is not even a comparison. I would like to test it against a 500 lumen light some day. I will admit, it is not as light or compact as a 12PM/M6, but I have little invested and I suites my needs (bright, rechargeable, 1+ hour run time, head mounted.)

Now that I have a headless Mag-lite, any ideas for it?
 

lightlover

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kb0rrg -
That sounds really interesting, and reads like you had a lot of fun designing and making it. Successfully too !
I don't think that a two part light is a bad thing, for such a high output.

So, now I guess you can build a LED into the rest of the Mag-Lite. (Oh, actually, they'll sell you a new complete head.)

What I would be into would be an application of your type of bulb/reflector flawless beam assembly into a Mag 3D - any ideas how possible this would be ?

I suppose that the body size would restrict the batteries, so the run-time a lot, but could something useful come of it ?

Jahn
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kb0rrg

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If I could figure out how to get 12 volts and 4 amps from the batteries in a 3D mag, it would be a VERY impressive light.

I have 2 questions.

1. I have decided that a low power option is needed. The mini mag is too dim. I have thought about bigger/better flashlights, but I do not want to add much more weight to my helmet. Plus, I already have a 12V rechargeable source that I would like to utilize. My question is: What would you recommend for a mid power (5-10 watts) light 12V that is very small and complete (i.e. just bolt on and wire). Maybe the head of an existing light with a different bulb would work?

2. What is the lowest voltage I can safely discharge my lead-acid battery before I damage it. I am not sure if it is a "deep-cycle" or not. I am sure that it is not design to be a "cranking" battery. I was considering not dropping below 10 volts while under load.
 

Chris M.

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What would you recommend for a mid power (5-10 watts) light 12V that is very small and complete

Well they do make smaller versions of those MR16 halogen lamps- MR11 to be precise (MR11 referring to them being 11/8 inch diameter), they come in 5-15 watt sizes. You`d need a housing for it, maybe a suitable diameter aluminum tube (or flashlight head) plus a few extras maybe, but it would give a similar quality beam with a choice of different wattage bulbs depending on what you plan to use it for on a given day- and be small and lightweight too.


What is the lowest voltage I can safely discharge my lead-acid battery before I damage it

We use them in all our range of fire alarm panels and it is generally coinsidered bad to discharge one below 11 volts for any length of time. But, for repeat cyclic use where it would go back on a charger within a few hours, I`d say 10v would be fine. By then you`re losing the brightest white beam too so it`s about time to quit. Just don`t leave it discharged overnight cos they really object to being left uncharged, the acid gel inside crystalises and can ruin an expensive battery in as short as a day depending on the level of discharge.

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lightlover

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kb0rrg:
If I could figure out how to get 12 volts and 4 amps from the batteries in a 3D mag, it would be a VERY impressive light
...........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

kb0rrg.
I've composed about 10 responses to this, ranging from "extremely witty" to just "extremely ******"
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Anyway, all we have to do is wait another 10 years or so, and it might be a reality.

However, even a 'lectrical dummy like me knows it isn't possible just yet. What I was asking was: during the course of your researches for this project, have you come across any possible applications of this system to a 3D Mag ?

I'll take it that the answer is NO !

I remain Sir,
(My dignity slightly miffed, but still with a British stiff upper lip)

Lite-Lover
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D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
well, couldn't you put 3 D Lithium cells in the mag and there you have 9 point something volts right off the bat...perhaps I have been transported 10 years into the future...?
(the future Conan? Yes, Andy, the future...)
 

kb0rrg

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Lite-Lover: I did not intend to offend you...I apologize if I did. Maybe I didn't understand the original question. When I said "If I could figure out how to get 12 volts and 4 amps from the batteries in a 3D mag, it would be a VERY impressive light." I was actually asking myself how to do this; I was not trying to sound condescending. If I am still misguided, correct me again, I can be a little slow in some areas.
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IF, you were asking if I thought it was possible to use this bulb in a 3D Mag without an external battery, my reply is that I have not found a way, but have I do have some ideas (long shots)

IF, you were asking if I saw a previous example of this bulb used in a portable light. Yes I have, my neighbor built a light using this bulb and used some Lithium Ion batteries. He used a pop can as the case for the light. He put a switch on the bottom. It's really neat.

Lithium D cells exist, but they are very expensive. $17 each. http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=830&prmenbr=8000 If
If had a 4D mag it might work. I don't know if a D cell lithium can do 4 amps.
$17 x 4 cells = $68 ouch!

Can 2 or 3 DL123s fit side-by-side in Mag tube????
 

lightlover

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kb0rrg, thank you
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but not at all, no offence taken. (The smileys were intended sincerely)

I really just get over-excited if someone mentions both "Mag 3D" and "bright beam" (or something like that) in the same post.
( I love the Mag-Lite 3D like Al loves SureFires - yeah, THAT much !
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QUOTE - "but have I do have some ideas (long shots)" /QUOTE

I'll look forward to reading about them, and maybe trying to imitate your projects. Hey, post those as soon as you're ready
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Ted, Spudgunr, re: the D cell Lithiums route. I think I'll start a topic on this, once I've thought the idea over a bit.

Incidentally, 2x 123's will fit side by side in the barrel of a D Mag, quite a close fit though.
Looks as if 3x 123's side by side MIGHT be possible, but only if you removed the insulating material around them - maybe then tape them ?
(EDIT - sorry, I couldn't get 3x 123's in a D size Mag-Lite barrel.)

Lite-Lover
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Ps - Spudgunr, did you read the topic "Potato cannons for sale" by yzingerr at - http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=000012

careful with them things y'all ......
 

kb0rrg

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Well, I guess my ideas for 12 volts were to use either Lithium D cells or CR123s. Lite-Lover has given me enough hope in the 123 concept (side by side or three by side) that I may begin doing some research. There are some very small yet powerful rechargeable lithium ion batteries that are available (again, much research is needed) I am not 100% sure that the Mag switch can handle 50 watts. (in my project light I am using a toggle switch.) I would suspect that it is not cost effective to build such a light. There are some proven, well-engineered designs that would be more reliable and maybe not anymore expensive in the long run. For the same size I could get a SL-20…although it isn't 700 lum!!!
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Does anyone have a problem with my (if 500 Lum = 30 Watts than 50 Watt = 700 lum) asumption?

I have to admit that I cheated with respect to the low power light I wanted. I bought a 4 watt handle bar light for use at low speeds (It was 50% off). (Sorry if this "bike light" is pushing the limits of the "flashlight/headlight" section of the board). It has a VERY wide beam (Very wide horizontally, but not vertically). Much brighter than the Mini-mag, but still very inadequate for hi-speeds on narrow trails.

I still want to attach the mini-mag to my helmet so that I have a hands free light while reading trail maps, fixing the bike or anything else where 700 lum /50 watts is way too much.
 

Mr Ted Bear

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I reference to your 10 watt bulb...

I just completed a back yard pond and was checking out pumps and filtration units. What you are describing, and have already made out of a Maglite head, has already been made for use in outdoor ponds. The lamp is just as you described; halogen with faceted reflector for the perfect beam, 10 watts and the box says easily attached to most low voltage outdoor lighting systems. Waterproof
Kinda looks like a "NiteRider" headlight at 1/4 the price $33.95

This light was of interest to me for two reasons 1) as a diver, was going to modify for use as "modeling light" 2) if that didn't work, then use as a pond light.


Regarding your lead acid batteries... Have used them for years for my underwater dive lights. I think what you have is the same that I use 12v7amp. Best advise is when the lights appear to yellow or dim, its time to put them on charge. BTW, I leave mine on a trickle charger 200ma 24/7 and the go about 4 years
 

kb0rrg

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Cool. I will have to look closer the next time I am at the store. Is the bulb replacable, ie. can I put my 50w in it? Does it rely on the water for heat disipation? Which store did you see it at? Is it heavy?
 

Mr Ted Bear

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In reply...

Yes the bulb is replaceable. Unsure about needing water for heat disipation... with the 10 watt bulb, not a problem in or out. With a higher wattage, I do no know. I got the thing at a place called Green Arrow Nursery; 5 or 6 stores is Los Angeles area, not a national chain. Weight of the unit is virtualy nil - just plastic.

I imagine any Nursery that has pond supplies will have this accessory. Did not see at Home Depot or Lowes
 

kb0rrg

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I now am able to post this. Here is the discharge curve of a 50w 12vdc bulb connected to a 7.4 Ah sealed lead acid battery that was used in the project light described above.

headlight_discharge.jpg


I didn't notice any loss in intensity or output, but there must be. I did not want to run the battery below 10 volts. When the battery hit 10V, I let it rest for 7 minutes. That got me another 5 min of runtime. I would guess that I woule see a loss of brightness very soon after 35 min.

Since I use this light intermitantly, 30-40 min is satisfactory. If I ride an hour I may use it 10 min when going down hill or over unknown or dificult terrain
 

Gman

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FWIW, a year ago I modified a 3D Mag in the following way. I grafted a SF P60 into the original Mag reflector. The Mag required no other modifications to the body, only the reflector was changed. Some tweaking of the springs on the P60 is required for connection.

It now has the beam quality of a 6P, and uses 5 1/2 D nicad cells (similar to the pack used in the Mag Charger), for a run time of in excess of 4 hours.

There is a charging jack built into the tail cap along with a National Semiconductor LM3909 LED flasher IC. This chip powers a fulltime strobe LED in the tail cap for locating the light in the dark. It's very bright and is about 1 flash per second.

A typical single alkaine D cell will power this LED flasher continuously for nearly two years. It's able to strobe the 5000 mcd LED on only 1.5 volts due to the circuitry on the chip, but I use all the cells in the Mag to power this strobe.

I also have a 2D Mag modified in the same way, using the R30 lamp from the 3P. It uses
two 4 AH D nicads for a run time in excess of 6 hours. I've also used two 8 AH nimh in it for a run time of 9 hours, but thats a bit much for a rechargable. It also shares the strobe LED and charging jack in the tail cap.

These are great lights, if a tad heavy.
An overgrown 3P and 6P with very long run times, and rechargeable.
 

lightlover

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Congratulations kb0rrg !
Yours is a project I really want to try at some time.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gman:
............
... the beam quality of a 6P, and uses 5 1/2 D nicad cells (similar to the pack used in the Mag Charger), for a run time of in excess of 4 hours.

..................

These are great lights......... very long run times, and rechargeable.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very interesting ! Any more details or photos, Gman ?

1. Are you saying that the Mag-charger battery is just "similar" or is it identical to your set-up ? I'd prefer not to have to try to build one ......

2. Will a Mag-charger battery fit in a "normal" 3D Mag ?

3. Presumably, you could run the 120 Lumen P61 6v bulb too ?

4. Any problems with heat and the Mag-Lite's Lexan lens ?

5. Does the Mag-Charger have the same reflector clearance for the 6V P-series bulbs ?
It would have to be protected from wear marks, but it is metal. And it has the heat-resistant glass lens, too.

6. From what you have said, it seems that no wiring is necessary ? How much tweaking of the springs is necessary ?

And because the P60 and P61 have built-in reflectors the beam quality will be as superb as usual.

Looking forward,

lightlover
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PeLu

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kb0rrg:
I now am able to post this. Here is the discharge curve of a 50w 12vdc bulb connected to a 7.4 Ah sealed lead acid battery that was used in the project light described above.
...
I didn't notice any loss in intensity or output, but there must be.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your bulb is rated for 12V and 2000 hours lifetime. From a low end product you may expect about 500lm, maybe less.

Your are starting at 11.8V (~470 lm) and going down to ~10V (~250 lm), that about half the brighness. Most people cannot tell a difference of 1:2 in brightness unless in a real time comparison.
 

PeLu

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gman:
a year ago I modified a 3D Mag in the following way. I grafted a SF P60 into the original Mag reflector...
It now has the beam quality of a 6P, and uses 5 1/2 D nicad cells (similar to the pack used in the Mag Charger), for a run time of in excess of 4 hours.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What bulb life do you get on these battery? The P60 is made to run at 4.8V and yours will have almost 6V (or maybe even slightly more). Unless you have some volatge drop at the switcha and the contacts, your bulb should not last longer than 10 hours.
 

kb0rrg

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Great mod Gman. I've always wanted to try that one. I figured that some one had already tried it. I like your LED idea. This a a production light with a blinking LED for locating in the dark. I think energizer makes is.

How does the output/quality/whiteness of a mag with a P60 compare to a 6P with a P60?

What are your thoughts about using a 4D mag and alkaline batts?
 
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