Dude, I ain't gettin a Dell

Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Working on a friend's Dell laptop that's out of warranty. The symptom is that the computer claims that it "doesn't recognize the AC Adaptor" and thus won't charge the battery. So now the battery's dead, the laptop won't boot without the battery installed and it won't boot with it either.

Apparently Dell places a Dallas Semiconductor one-wire memory chip in the laptop's power supply. When the laptop boots up, it sends an inquiry through the third pin of the AC adaptor. If the chip in the AC Adaptor responds that it's a genuine Dell supply, all is well and the machine continues to boot and it applies charging current to the battery. But try to use a third-party supply on the machine and the inquiry fails, causing the machine to refuse to charge the battery.

Sorta makes sense in terms of controlling what kind of device is charging the battery. However there's been a rash of failures of this secret authentication scheme, causing many Dell laptops to turn into doorstops! Dell says it requires a replacement motherboard, to the tune of around $600.00! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

So now I can't charge the battery and I can't run it off of AC, even though the AC adaptor is making DC power. I have to find another similar laptop to charge this battery so that I can try to get the machine running long enough to apply a BIOS patch that might help. But I can't apply the #!@$ patch because I can't boot the &^%! machine!

And from what I've read on Dell's own support forums, this is apparently a pattern failure with certain models of laptops, yet there's no recall, not even an apology, and they're continuing to charge hundreds of dollars tro replace the MoBo (which presumably disables or modifies that "AC Adaptor Authentication" scheme. AGH!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smoker5.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/knight.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sick2.gif


Thanks for listening

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

How about rigging up an alternate power supply and hooking it into the battery contacts in order to bypass the whole power adapter identification thing. The standard voltage for the battery is usually listed on a label placed on the outside of battery or the inside of the battery bay. Then run power through those contacts so that you can apply the BIOS patch and see if that fixes it up for you. Keep in mind you'll need a stable power supply and will need to bias it correctly so that you don't blow the power supply and charge controller on your logic board. But if you're comfortable doing so, this may be something that could get you up and running again.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Or could you get a replacement AC?
(or the chip?)

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

[ QUOTE ]
Mednanu said:
How about rigging up an alternate power supply and hooking it into the battery contacts in order to bypass the whole power adapter identification thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been thinking about that, although it's a weird battery connector so it will be tricky to "spoof" the battery.

I've already tried to charge the Li-on battery pack from a bench supply - no luck. The battery pack has some on-board control circuitry which is brought out to multiple pins on the docking connector, so I can't determine how to feed power through the battery's circuitry.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

[ QUOTE ]
Atrick-Pay said:
Or could you get a replacement AC?
(or the chip?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been reading one of their forum threads about this, and in more than one case Dell sold the customer a new adaptor and they still had the same symptom, so I'm wary about investing in a new AC adaptor.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Could you borrow a friend's genuine battery and boot up with that and apply a patch?

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Wow, first time I'm hearing that. While they would be concerned about counterfeit AC adapters causing problems, it seems a little heavy handed.

Which model is affected? I have two Dells with 3-wire systems, but my current one is a two-wire system which would make it hard to implement this. I have never had an AC adapter problem though.

I managed to charge a Dell Latitude L400/Inspiron 2100 pack off my Maha. There is a particular combination of wires that produce 11V, which I checked on my DMM then connected to the Maha, and it gave the pack a full charge from nearly zero as indicated by the 4 LEDs on the underside. However, model-to-model variation is so huge that we really need to look at specific models to determine whether this is possible.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

[ QUOTE ]
KevinL said:
Wow, first time I'm hearing that. While they would be concerned about counterfeit AC adapters causing problems, it seems a little heavy handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, very heavy-handed. And the fact that they're not acknowledging what's really going on and issuing a recall really, really stinks.

[ QUOTE ]

Which model is affected? I have two Dells with 3-wire systems, but my current one is a two-wire system which would make it hard to implement this. I have never had an AC adapter problem though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one of the threads. It seems that the Inspiron 1100 and 5100, the Latitude C600 series are affected - maybe others.

[ QUOTE ]

I managed to charge a Dell Latitude L400/Inspiron 2100 pack off my Maha. There is a particular combination of wires that produce 11V, which I checked on my DMM then connected to the Maha, and it gave the pack a full charge from nearly zero as indicated by the 4 LEDs on the underside.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. That's the kind of information I'm looking for. Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

[ QUOTE ]
IlluminatingBikr said:
Could you borrow a friend's genuine battery and boot up with that and apply a patch?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been asking around locally and I haven't found one yet. Still looking...

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

I just read that thread.. my current laptop is a D600 that I've had for over a year, no problems so far. There are some D600 owners complaining there though.

My other two are the L400/2100, and a truly ancient Latitude LM from the land before time and stuff. Still works! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

that' why i own nothing but mac's. 5 of them. all still works

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

This reminds me of something I read about Lexmark printers. It seems that Lexmark embedded some magic code in each of their ink cartridges for at least some of their printers. No generic replacement would work, even if fit and function were otherwise correct.

Eventually, a maker of replacement cartridges hacked the code and put it into their units. This worked until Lexmark sued the maker for, get this, violation of the DMCA! It seems that you can protect almost any piece of hardware by just inserting a line or two of copyrighted code. Ahhh, yet another unintended consequence of the DMCA!

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

[ QUOTE ]
senecaripple said:
that' why i own nothing but mac's. 5 of them. all still works

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, cuz Apple would never screw over users with a battery issue.

Now if you excuse me I'm going to go listen to my iPod...

HEY! Aw, son'ova...!


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Yup, lexmark just lost that case bigtime! And if someone bothers to challenge Dell they will loose that too because all it amounts to is their locking out 3rd party hardware replacement for no good reason. It's going to be hard for them to reason with the judge that their power supply is so special that nobody else can be trusted to make one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Even Apple doesn't go that far. I've used several 3rd party power adaptors as well as third party batteries and third party refurbished batteries in my various powerbooks over the years with no diffculty at all. Indeed Apple even documents the specifics needed to fabricate the plugs and battery packs so that anybody can do it!

Even in your iPod, they don't make you take it to them to get the batter replaced MichiganMan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif In fact I know of 3 separate non-Apple companies offering to do the battery replacement for as little as a third what apple charges, and you can do it yourself for less and not even void your warranty /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

All batteries are smart nowdays with a chip and a serial connection to the power manager. At least I think so, all Apple ones are, but again, that bus and protocol is all documented so that anybody can build a compatible system. I think it's hilarious when company does something like this! Problem with Dell is that they are such a commodity product that there is little profit in them anymore, so it's important for them to continue to make more money on later sales of stuff like new power adaptors.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Agreed James, but when a Dell computer fails to recognize it's own Dell power supply, and this type of failure happens over and over again, rendering many computers useless, this is just plain wrong and akin to extortion.

I used to have a high regard for Dell, but now I'm never going to buy one myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Photon
I have a really old dell inspiron (8000) i think, Dell sent me a AC adaptor recall notice. What laptop is it (exact model)? Maybe your model qualifies.

Here's the email i got:
IMPORTANT SAFETY ADVISORY

1/19/2005

Dear Customer,

In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, Dell is voluntarily recalling and offering free replacements for certain AC Adapters that were sold for use with some models of Dell Latitude, Dell Precision and Dell Inspiron notebook computers. It is possible for the adapters to overheat, which could pose a risk of fire or electrical shock.

Potentially affected adapters were sold with the following models of Dell notebook computers:

* Latitude CP, CPi, CPiA, CPtC, CPiR, CPxH, CPtV, CS, CSx, CPxJ, CPtS, C500, C510, C600, C610, C800, C810, V700, C-Dock, C-Port
* Inspiron 2500, 2600, 3500, 3700, 3800, 4000, 4100, 4150, 5000, 5000e, 7500, 7550, 8000, 8100, Advanced Port Replicator, Docking Station
* Precision M40

The adapters were also sold separately, including those provided in response to service calls. The adapters were shipped to customers between September 1998 and February 2002. The words "DELL," and either "P/N 9364U, P/N 7832D or P/N 4983D are printed on the back of the adapters.

We are notifying you because our records show that you purchased one or more of those notebook computers and/or adapters during the noted date range. Not all the above-described adapters sold during the noted date range are affected. To determine whether your adapter is affected by this issue, go to Dell's website at www.delladapterprogram.com. The website will direct you to find and enter an identification number from the back of your AC adapter so as to determine whether the adapter is affected by this issue. If the adapter is affected by this issue you will be automatically connected to a replacement order entry request form or be provided with a phone number for your region, and you should immediately discontinue use of the affected adapter. Dell will also provide a means for you to return the affected adapters for proper disposal. If you have additional question not covered on the recall website, or cannot access the website, please call Dell toll-free at 800-418-8590, Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. CST.

Customers also can write to the company at Dell Inc., Attn: Adapter Program, 9701 Metric Blvd., Austin, TX 78758.

Please note that only the described power adapters are subject to this recall and not the notebook computers themselves.

Dell apologizes for the inconvenience caused by this issue. Shipment of quality products always has been and continues to be Dells foremost concern. As always, if you have questions or concerns about this or any other subject, please feel free to contact us.

If you would like to be removed from this email distribution list please reply back to this email and add REMOVE in the subject line or CLICK HERE.

Sincerely,
Dell Inc.,
Attn: Adapter Program
9701 Metric Blvd.
Austin, TX 78758
USA

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Thanks for the legwork, Dandrop. Nope, this unit isn't one of the Delta brand AC adaptors so it's not included in this particular recall. I believe this recall was for overheating supplies.

What they need to do is issue another recall for the "adaptor not recognized" problem. Apparently there's something about the authentication scheme that eventually fails, even if the adaptor, laptop and battery are still operational.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Cell phone makers, printer manufacturers, and more than a few others it would seem have been trying to "protect" their highly profitable replacement-parts business for years and years, using all sorts of questionable tactics.

What Dell, printer manufacturers, and cell phone makers have done is simple - they use some sort of patented serial I/O between the primary main device and cartridge/battery/peripheral. The I/O is patented solely to lck out other manufacturers. If the device detects a non-OEM (or non-licensed) peripheral, it will behave differently than with one that has the patented serial I/O. This behavior ranges from refusing to work (your Dell AC adaptor), working poorly (discharging a 3rd-party battery at the maximum rate), failing randomly (discredits 3rd-party replacements as "unreliable"; link is satirical), or anything else that marketing instructed the engineers to design in.

Despite marketing's assurance that using "genuine OEM" components is best for the consumer, this does the consumer no favors since it limits their choice and nearly-always results in higher prices.

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

Yes Erik, I first noticed this sleaziness with inkjet cartridges, especially the ones that claim that they're "out of ink" before they're really out. I remember the lame excuse that one marketeer gave when asked about this behavior - "We have to insure the safety of our printhead" or some such twaddle. Do they think we're idiots?

It seems that Dell isn't even acknowledghing that this is going on, much less offering a believable explanation for it. Either way their motives are quite transparent - to hold the user hostage for more money!

Re: Dude, I ain\'t gettin a Dell

i had a similar problem with my laptop, and dell wanted alot of money .....in my case it turned out to be an SMT fuse blew. unfortunately i had to tear down the laptop...used a leaded fuse as this was easier to solder ontop of original.



being this was my first tear down...was a latitude....it came apart fairly easy....i figured what the heck did i have to lose....i checked around the power input plug area and saw the fuse, ohmed it and it was blow....[lucky]

on your serial part if you know the part #, you can order a free sample or 2 from the dallis web site ( think dallis was bought but still selling under that name )

another thought were you able to load the ac supply by itself [ to verify it makes power under load and its not powering down by itself ]

---any surplus shops where you might find some similar units cheap, use as spare parts, i managed to pick up a couple of cheap latitudes for 30 bucks (although i'm in the heart of silicon valley)...keyboards alone were worth it

later i ended up swaping screens....ya i sure agree about dell....regardless, next time i buy something new i will get a 5 year exchange warrenty. they all have problems (even apple- i spent some time there, [great lunch setup-macafe])

best of luck-rob