Donate CPF Emergency Lights...

Hey guys,
The "cheers" aspect of this is embarrasing and I am not worthy, plain and simple. However there is an aspect that is worth considering me thinks.

At all levels from private citizen to commercial and public concerns, the money needed in the disaster area is not needed to sit in a bank account and gain interest; it is needed for acquisition of goods and services required in the clean up and rebuilding of the area. The process of acquisition itself is time consuming and has its own costs. Many of us have sent funds to the area, one way or the other. If there is any way any of us can "fast track" and get needed goods down there, then we have saved the step of acquisition. If I were a baker and new of a way to get loaves of bread down there, I would do so. I am not and I get bested by TV dinners!

If I owned a hardware store, I'd rather ship boxes of nails and rolls of duct tape than a cash transfer to some organization because I would know that 100% of my contribution was in "real goods" and of immediate use and availablilty where it could be used.

I make flashlights and after communication with Steve, I understood that he was working with folks doing what they could and needed to be done in the area. I asked if some lights could be used by these guys and he said yes. The US Postal Service is functioning between me and Steve so it was easy for me to send him some lights.

CPF is about flashlights! Beyond financial assistance to our effected members in the area,who presumably have light needs covered, it would be (have been) cool if there were a means of us pulling a Lloyd Bridges (Airplane) trick and dump all the lights we could on the area! :nana:

As we all know, when the grid is down, illumination is a great thing to have and it's *our* area of expertise!

Heck, we could have some cases of "CPF" edition flashlights standing by and available for shipment to an area in need. We're "flashlight" people allow us to help light your way!

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Don,

I like your idea of a CPF emergency light shipment!!

Well built, but inexpensive lights, (so as many as possible would be available) with the CPF logo would be cool.

CPF EMERGENCY SERVICES on the lights would make everyone aware of what they were and who to contact for needs!

Once again, a brilliant idea from a brilliant mind!

Bill

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Nice idea. Who was it who had that "World Torch" project going? They would be a good option for a situation like this. Or we could pool money and buy empty bodies from someone and cram some other circuit in there. Durable circuits, LEDs, whatever. I like the idea.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Princeton Tec will print on their lights. Perhaps we could get them to run some "CPF Disaster Relief" Attitudes. I would donate to the cause.

Great idea Don and Bwaites.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Before this gets out of hand, it would perhaps a good "exercise" for the community to identify a couple appropriate and low cost but up to the task designs or configurations that would make sense. I think that a CPF "quallified" emergency light had better be up to some reasonably riggorus and abusive use! A personal and long running light as well as a more powerful and further reaching light would make sense to me.

If we have an expertise, as a group, a CPF sanctioned light should not be an iffy POS, IMHO!

It is not our call to decide what and how CPF can be used but if something makes sense, I suspect that Sasha would embrace it. A well designed and executed KISS light could either be identified as already on the market or we certainly could find a manufacturer willing to consider the build; especially if it is a light or couple lights, that make sense. "End-cap appeal to customer" should step aside to allow for appropriate, in use, function and reliability! I think a company like Pelican for instance, might be up to a small boxed emergency light with battery spares "kit". I know some of the guys there and it might be worth bouncing the idea off them. We could also look to some of our off-shore vendors for cost effective solutions but I hope that this is taken in the right vein, a proper light has to be the real thing and not just a "pretend", wannabe, POS!

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Don,

I agree 100%.

I would say it needs to be an LED, preferably with dual levels of operation.

(I know, I know!! I'm a hotwire guy, but in this case an LED makes more sense!)

I should be a single cell 123 or possibly 2 cell AA and run on all the available AA configs.

In my mind, a tough plastic light would make more sense, as it would be lighter and easier to transport. It might even be designed to float. That plastic case limits overdrive on the LED, though, so that needs to be considered.

After carrying Don's PD, I have come to realize that 3-5 lumens is enough for most emergency tasks and that 30-50 is enough for most of the rest, so that should be possible also.

Ideas?

Bill

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

I think AA's are "better" for this, just because they still tend to be more readily (and cheaply) available than 123's. Or maybe "D"-size for increased runtime? Plastic sounds reasonable and durable. Would a LED "hybrid" (5mm + Luxeon) make any sense to tackle the high-low option, or would this be served better with just a Lux at different currents?

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

I think lithium primaries are strongly favored due to the shelf life. If the AA platform were used due to "availablilty" the light should work on both and be "packed" with lithium, IMHO. I can't tell you how many ditch bags and kits I have seen at least on boats or in PFD kits that had good water proof lights that were garbage due to alkaline death inside. The ACR FireFlys on the other hand were good to go with lithium on board. :shrug:

An intelligent light design for emergencies would go well beyond the scope of our "market" and quite possibly be embraced by a manufacturer for a larger market and economies of scale that we could enjoy. The design goals and criteria should be well identified and not short cut. Efficacy of the LED should be embraced not only for the run time but the lack of thermal excess as well. In the real dark, you don't need testostrone levels of flux or lux, for that matter! I am convinced that a molded light with some metal mass within and possibly partially exposed could take care of the thermal needs as well as be cost effective in manufacture.

EDIT: In volume, I think a twisty light with plastic battery pack and Lexan window/ bezel could embrace an anodized reflector/head combo that had an integral two stage LE. A 30 mA/ 300 mA combo on a CR123 for instance would provide all the light one would need in a personal light and it would provide good run time.

I see two lights here. One for personal use and in quantities to be available to the individuals and then one for "team leader" or S&R function of the group where greater power and throw would be used for signaling or "lead out" of the situation. These lights would not be in the same quantity as the personal use; 1:10 maybe?!?! It would seem that a good drop pack would have a number of personal lights, a single high power light and a weather proof pack of extra batteries. :shrug:

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

I really like the idea of CPF emergency lights! :thumbsup:
Something with AA's, lithium capable, resistored for runtime, tough "plastic" (preferrably in a signal color) and not too expensive, but I'll leave it to the experts to figure it out.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

I would agree with Don on almost every point. I hadn't considered an aluminum bezel on plastic, but it makes GREAT sense!

I thought the lithium issue was a done deal. If you are going to store lights, they've got to go with Lithium cells. The light should run on cheap alkalines, because they are available everywhere, but storage and immediate use equate to Lithium.

I would change the big/little to 5:1 or 6:1, since in my experience in emergency situations of this nature, (and it is admittedly limited) that ratio works better for groups.

The 30/300ma ratio is a good one, and I would say a single 123 or 2 AA's. 2AA's make more sense in some ways, because their capacity is greater for the amount of space consume. Cheap S bin LEDs would be a good choice. If you build these out of the plastic/aluminum combo, I would hope to keep the cost around 5-10 dollars each. They can be direct drive if you need to keep the cost down.

Bill

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

McGizmo said:

Heck, we could have some cases of "CPF" edition flashlights standing by and available for shipment to an area in need.

We're "flashlight" people allow us to help light your way!

Click to expand...

First I would like to point out that this true artisan/humanitarian has once again shown a high level of class by shifting the focus of a cheer for him, to that of another higher purpose.

That is something truly rare today.

Second if I understand the task/project being brain stormed, we would hopefully have a bunch of lights at the ready for deployment in a future unfortunate circumstance.

If that is the case then IMHO the type of batteries used may not be a problem (AA Alk/Lithium) because they would not be sitting installed in the lights. They could even be purchased the day of deployment.

Third the light/lights themselves....I think plastic bodied LED (Luxeon) would do fine. (the SL Propoly 4AA Lux comes to mind) I also like Don's 1:10 ratio of High output/personal lights, but perhaps a happy medium could be found.

At any rate

and will monitor this thread so I can donate what I can if/when it reaches fruition.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Very impressive "gift"!...

Especially coming from one individual. :wow: :bow:

Immediately after the Twin Towers fell, CPFers got together and shipped dozens if not hundreds of flashlights and many hundreds of batteries to rescue crews, but I don't remember offhand if any one person was so generous, although a couple of the CPF commercial dealers offered product at cost or a little below and did "yeomans duty" in getting the lights to the right people quickly.

I like some of the ideas mentioned in the thread. Maybe we need to start a new thread in a different place to discuss it. Not sure where would be the best place though... LEDS? CAFE? General Lighting?

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

This is a great idea, and hopefully we can, Get er' done!

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Let me add something here.

The Alephs Don provided will fill a specific hole in the load-out of some of the rescue people; specifically, our SWAT guys. We have SF 123-powered gun lights, but those are left behind when doing this sort of work. We are issued Stingers for "personal"/individual use; which have a narrow, intense spot, and don't last for squat.

The Aleph 3s and that wonderful corona light up a room (or a back yard or a street) like no "personal" light I've ever seen. Don couldn't have made a better choice for a donation.

But for a general purpose light for rescuers, Aleph 3s are a bit on the expensive side. The ones Don provided have been issued on the basis of one per element (team), to be used by whoever in the element is first in a particular structure or area. We don't have a designated 'point man' or any of that nonsense; every operator is equally trained and skilled.

I'm wandering here. What I'm trying to say is that FEMA is providing just about everything the "regular" cops could possibly need. And what FEMA does not have readily to hand, they go out and buy locally. Its an amazing deal.

I saw a pallet of 3D Mag-Lites the other day. Before you moan and groan, remember that the 3D Mag-Lite has its own government stock number and is issue for many government agencies, such as the US Park Service.

My point is this; while admirable, your generosity would, in this case, be probably misplaced. Lots of donated stuff that isn't immediately usable is being dumped in warehouses and may never again see the light of day. And there is another, darker aspect to consider; had Don's gift arrived through normal channels, with no strings attached per se, I can just about guarantee you those Alephs would never have reached New Orleans. You can speculate about that as you choose; I won't say any more about it.

Again, your desires to help are noted and much appreciated. But this one is under control now, and its basically all over but for the clean-up and re-build.

Thanks again Don; and to the rest of you as well. We'll get through this.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Steve,

I think we're thinking more along the lines of the next "big thing". The 8.2 earthquake in California or Seattle, or the next hurricane or whatever. We move a lot faster than FEMA or insurance companies.

We had funds in CPF'ers accounts by Tuesday or so after the storm. If we had some caches of lights around the country, and for that matter, the world, they would be on scene rapidly and deployable by those in immediate need. I don't think we're talking about quality like the Alephs, so much as a "starts first time, everytime" kind of basic light to handle the common stuff, not the stuff like you are doing.

For that matter, they could be placed in emergency 72 hour kits, and those could be distributed.

But who knows, maybe all the brainstorming is just that, a way to get our frustrations out because we can't be there to help and want to make sure we make a bigger contribution next go round!

Bill

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

McGizmo, it is truly oustanding what you have done. Hats off to you! I've long admired your thoughtful posts, and envied your technical abilities, but your immense generosity here just boggles the mind. I need to go and find a higher pedestal now...

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Should I put "Alaska CPF Coordinator" on my hard hat now?

This is an outstanding idea, as long as we don't get "ripped" off by some money hungry manufacturer...the "good intentions" are there for sure. We've got enough "smarts" around these halls to prevent a "rip-off".

Is a custom build being thought of here or more of a pre-designed tool? Cost is certainly a major consideration (wanting to get the best build quality for the money spent - of course realizing that these torches aren't going to "Flashaholics" that will critique them, other than usefulness). I will assume that maximum utility will be proportional to price - but hopefully the expertise around these halls will get us the most for the minimum?

Long run times in a quality body - KISS for sure to prevent failure!

We could have another "fund raiser" for this goal??? Maybe a manufacturer would be willing to do a "partial donation" of material and/or cost savings for a project such as this?

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Wow! I work my way through the board from the top down, and stumble on this! First a jeer to Don for a somebody-class OT diversion. :nana: I think CPF could fund $1k+ useful/long running lights in a stand-by mode, ready for the next disaster. The challenge will be how to arrange their distribution! National Guard units would IMO be the first choice, but they're State-specific, and the bureaucracy(sp) would present a challenge! We need a reality-check on what is possible and how much of a real contribution CPF can make. Maybe, and :thumbsup: for the mission/concept!

Larry

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Wow Don, nice going! Talk about deluxe search and rescue lights!

I think Steve C has a point. Unless you have a direct person who can deliver donated goods who knows where they will end up, even if everyone involved is honest? I like the idea of using CPFers as recipients in troubled areas. I think that's the best chance of donations getting to the source where they are needed. I would also think a waterproof light that floats would make a nice light since so many disasters seem to accompany flooding.

Re: Heartfelt Generosity.....

Great job, Don. :nana:


About a "lights cache" - here are my couple of thoughts on the subject. Not denying the SAR folks need good lights, the best that you can get, but the ordinary folks who had to make a run for it could possibly get by on just a little less. As it's been said, when there's no light around you, ANY light could possibly be the best light in the world!

Who here would EDC a crank-light? Nobody - yup, true enough! Would I ever recommend a crank light? You gotta be kidding!

.... except after I read a story where someone bought $200 worth of $5 crank-lights and shipped them out to NOLA after the hurricane. In that instant I realized that these could possibly be the best lights for the job - no batteries whatsoever. Runs down? Wind a little bit more. LEDs too, no less. Crank light it is.. :goodjob:


Now, on the topic of battery powered lights - lithium doesn't seem like a cost-effective way to go, at least as I see it. Not enough mAH, not enough bang for the buck. The suggestion for D cells is a good one.

Alkalines stored in a reasonably cool, shaded place should live out their 7-year shelf life. DON'T store them loaded in the lights, when the cache is needed, we tear them out of the plastic packs and load them by hand. It's not too much work. That way if they do happen to leak we can simply discard them without ruining the light itself.

www.cheapbatteries.com - load the page and press Ctrl-F to search for EV-3251 to find the $1 Eveready D cell flashlight. Not the greatest in the world but put these together with http://www.cheapbatteries.com/duracell.htm and you'd have a $2.60 flashlight good to sit for seven years. The idea being that you can put these in the hands of as many people as possible.

There's another $2 Eveready D with Heavy Duty (read "Carbon Zinc" read "3 year shelf life") cells preloaded, but 3 year shelf life.. naah. And carbon zincs just don't have the staying power.

Energizer says 6 hours at 500mA continuous drain for carbon zinc and 18 hours for alkaline D.


If anybody wants to start a collection to donate so that we can reach the 'price break' quantities and any of the local CPFers in the disaster areas want to carry the lights in, I'm willing to donate. I'm in. I can serve as PP coordinator as well. We just chalk up $200 and we have a hundred lights going in (for this one we can use the cheap carbon zincs).

After the disaster folks may look upon these lights fondly and say "Hey, we can get replacement cells at the supermarket".. mission accomplished!


Looking into the future, some of us may be able to donate time and manpower to get these lights converted to LED. Most of the cheap lights have copper strips which touch the bulb, not even a nice PR base pedestal like Mags do, but this is to our advantage since it will be trivial to solder a large 10mm LED onto them. Don't get the crappy 10mm's with 20mA forward current, get the GOOD ones with 100mA or 150mA ratings. In the context of this project they are expensive though, a couple of dollars each.

Sleeve the lights with paper, load them with 3C cells and a 6-8 ohm resistor, and there you go. Each light will still be under $5 except that it'll be LED-powered.


PS: Another approach would be to buy a whole boatload of lantern 6V cells, add a cheap switch, a resistor and one of those 10mm LEDs. Betcha these will run forever.

http://www.cheapbatteries.com/lantern.htm

The surprise is that the $1.60 Energizer is a zinc/MnO2 chemistry battery, same as our alkalines and therefore SHOULD have a longer shelf life (I dunno? Not stated in the datasheet).

At 12 amp hours, driving a LED at an average of 50mAH, it'll give you 240 hours of light. Turn it on eight hours a night and that'll be thirty solid days of illumination.