Regulated M6 hotdriver (and PIR) coming soon

Inadvertently i discovered a way to 'hack' a hotdriver into submission to make it work in an M6.. you'd be able to use 6xLiON in a 2x3 config or 6xNiMH 'A' diameter in a series config (a little more work to make the end-caps for series). The beauty is i don't need to make a new driver board and the end-caps especially for LiON use can be made with just circles of PCB. (actually on one side i'll just use a piece of copper to keep the thickness down).

I have a loaner lined-up to perfect the solution and when i have the solution complete i will post a 'who wants one' on BST. There is a fair amount of labor involved to make the hack (cutting traces, a jumper or two).. but it's reasonable and i think i'll be able to offer a complete pack with 6 LiON for under $100, hopefully that will even include the modified tail cup.

I will also show the 'cookbook' so somebody with the skill can just buy the hotdriver and make the modification themselves, probably save about $30.


here's the hotdriver


here's the battery pack that it will go on (orange).. shown with a stock M6 MB20 battery pack.

the M6x6 will run nearly 40 minutes in an M6, probably 30+ minutes of that is in regulation.

My favorite part.. it looks like i can work out voltage and current regulation, so that it will run the HOLA or the LOLA with no changing of any settings.. just fully automatic!

-awr

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

andrewwynn said:

it's reasonable and I think I'll be able to offer a complete pack with 6 LiON for under $100, hopefully that will even include the modified tail cup.

Click to expand...

:huh: Finally coming to fruition! Looking forward to it now. . .

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

:popcorn: "sign" me up scotty, when your ready (oops wrong quote) :sssh:

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

I'm in!

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

You already know what I'm gonna say Andrew but here it goes:

put me down for 2

glad to see you advertising this finally.

doug

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

AWR,

If the driver is set to the best level for the MN21, it will be too low for the MN20, and if set for MN20, will be too high for MN21.

Also, could you elaborate on exactly what has to happen to the tail cap?

From what I know of the M6 body and space inside, it looks to me as if something radical will have to happen in order for this pack and regulator to be able to fit. But if the TC is the only part that needs modding, then people could just buy an extra TC and be able to go to regular or M6-AWR configuration. SO that's cool.

Anyway, for anyone who is waiting on my M6-R list and would rather be on AWR's list, I will happily release you from your commitment and refund your money. Not a problem. Just shoot me off a PM.

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

the only difference on the tailcap is that the 'cup' inside has to be cut down (if you modify the original). I will be getting parts machined that will be a 'swap out' replacement. In addition, the pack can be built smaller with NiMH batteries and fit inside stock, probably with GP2000 cells which will get you 1.9-1.95AH which will get about 20-23min runtime vs the close to forty with the 3.3AH pack made from LiONs.

I will make as i mentioned, inner cups for the TC which is all that is needed to swap back to the total stock unit.. in-addition, all you need is a longer spring to use the modified tail cup with the MB20 pack, so you don't have to swap back for a short-term use.. i.e. keeping the MB20 loaded as a 'reserve' just keep the spring with the pack so you can swap it in.

It will still be maybe a month for getting to the point where i can offer these.. since i won't do production on them myself (due to nano obligations).. i have to get leigh caught up and done on hotdriver production, but she'll be needing work and it'll likely be the M6x6-R.

hope to have the prototype running next weekend, from that test i will know what the labor will be so how much it will take to make and when i can get a time-line made i will start a BST.

Any work that i can offload from the M6-R can get JS and bwaites to their next project which i'm dying to see myself.

The driver isn't set ONLY by voltage, JS.. it's set for a max voltage and a max current.

E.G. It will be set for a maximum current of approx. 4.9A and a maximum voltage of approx 7.3V.. (which from what i understand it could be higher for the LOLA).

So.. if you put in the LOLA, it will regulate to 7.3V and whatever amperage.. but if you put in the HOLA, it will try to get to 7.3V but it will hit 4.9A around 6.8V so it will stop and regulate around 6.8V.. (basically i will set the amperage 'til the voltage is what i want).

-awr

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

AWR,

SWEET!!! Max voltage AND max current set points! I love it!

Now THAT'S what I call an elegant solution to the problem. Nicely done, Andrew. Nicely done.

Listen, I'm having some thoughts about something that may interest you. Give me a call. PM sent.

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

I am In please put me down for one!
I "Need" a rechagable solution for my M6 please count me in. PP ready just let me know when to send it.

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

:popcorn:

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

I'll take one... Gotta find an M6 now!

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

Really hope you'll find a solution with the Li-ions that will allow the battery to be a true drop-in, stock M6 body, stock tailcap and all...

I can't mod a simple Maglight to save my life :crazy: -Guess I'm a minority in that department but it's one of the reasons why I bought the M6!

Burining to see the final result!

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

Flea Bag said:

Really hope you'll find a solution with the Li-ions that will allow the battery to be a true drop-in, stock M6 body, stock tailcap and all...

I can't mod a simple Maglight to save my life :crazy: -Guess I'm a minority in that department but it's one of the reasons why I bought the M6!

Burining to see the final result!

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this awesome regulated battery pack that Andrew has designed depends on the 6x17500 LiIon cells, which don't physically fit inside a SF M6. The modification for the new cup is rather easy, as shown in this post - you simply pull the OEM cup with pliers, and press the new one with your fingers - done!. As Andrew stated above, using a longer spring (normal leftover from M*g mods), you will be able to use the OEM MB20 battery pack in an "emergency" as well ;)

Will

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

Flea Bag said:

Really hope you'll find a solution with the Li-ions that will allow the battery to be a true drop-in, stock M6 body, stock tailcap and all...

I can't mod a simple Maglight to save my life :crazy: -Guess I'm a minority in that department but it's one of the reasons why I bought the M6!

Burining to see the final result!

Click to expand...

This pack is not a true drop-in, but as long as you are willing to get an extra Tail Cap, it's more or less a drop-in w/modded tail cap. You just switch to the stock TC for MB20. Or, as mentioned, you can install a longer spring on the modded TC to use the MB20, but that would not bring the light back to true stock condition. Or you can replace the internals of the Tail Cap with the original internals and get back to stock that way. But if it were me, I'd just have two Tail Caps. It's not that much money to buy a new M6 LOTC, and then you wouldn't have to constantly be messing with the internals to switch back and forth.

The other thing to note is that this pack is not fully regulated. It is partially regulated. That's not necessarily a bad thing! And I'm not trying to knock it. Just pointing out that this pack will have a brightness plateau in the beginning, and then gradually dim off over the rest of the runtime. Some people actually would prefer this to a warning flashes followed by sudden dimming, I think. And the runtime is great!

Plus, Li-ion cells can just sit around and be happy as a clam. NiMH can NOT sit around unused for too long or they start to go bad.

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

Well, TBH when I heard JS gave up on any more M6-R's, I gave up on the SF-M6, cause there's no way I'm going through $1.75 123a's like water in this light.....half of which is **** poor light as the batteries run down.

Now, getting a SF-M6 is back on the table for me, and if Andrew says he can get the Li-ion's to fit (even if they are not 6x17500 which wquiles says don't fit--but the picture sure looks like they will), I'm sure he will "git-er-done."

This is really awsome work, and I'm down with this complete package including modded tailcap. WOW!

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

No, 6x17500 does "not" physically fit without the new easy-to-swap tailcup:


Another possible rechargable solution (for the MN60 and 61) that "does" fit is when using 3x17670 cells:


Will

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

js said:

SWEET!!! Max voltage AND max current set points! I love it!

Now THAT'S what I call an elegant solution to the problem. Nicely done, Andrew. Nicely done.

Click to expand...

yeah i know, i was soo happy to discover the coincidence that the HIGHER power light uses LOWER voltage but HIGHER current to allow this method. There are other solutions that can be worked out with hotdriver.. example 1060 lamp at 6.6V but 4.0A and the 1111 lamp at 7.2V and 3.7A.. if you set a hotdriver to 7.2V and 4.0A, you can swap at will between those two lamps! The osram 35W lamp pulls like 6.3A at 7.0V and is another possibility.. set the hotdriver to 6.3A and 7.2V and you can swap between 1111 lamp and osram 35W.. I've been telling people the chip the HD is based on is pretty cool.

fleabag.. there are a couple options, like the one mentioned by JS.. having a second tailcap with the modded cup.. you could buy a spare and just cut down the cup inside yourself (literally took me 5 minutes with a dremel).. or buy the modified cup. ... or the 'lower power' option would be to use lower capacity cells like 6xNIMH in series but using GP2000 cells.. drops the capacity from 3.3AH to 1.9AH but you'd get over 20min. runtime with an NIMH pack vs LiON pack and it will fit in the stock light.

Considering the advantages of LiON like the low self discharge and the fact that with a very small mod that is reversable, i would myself stick with double the runtime and a pack that can sit for weeks and not self-discharge.

If you really wanted to keep completely stock, you'd be able w/o too much difficulty make a shorter, lower capacity pack from a hotdriver and some GP2000 cells. I will likely make a prototype with them to see how difficult it will be and maybe offer that as an option when selling them.

(since it's harder to make and GP2000 cells cost more.. it will probably be the same price.. just won't have the metal replacement tail cup).

oh.. btw.. i probably will have enough springs to include them for the 'backup' use.

js said:

The other thing to note is that this pack is not fully regulated. It is partially regulated. That's not necessarily a bad thing! And I'm not trying to knock it. Just pointing out that this pack will have a brightness plateau in the beginning, and then gradually dim off over the rest of the runtime. Some people actually would prefer this to a warning flashes followed by sudden dimming, I think. And the runtime is great!

Click to expand...

Actually a 'bit' of a misnomer.. since LiON cells are almost completely depleted at 3.45V.. and with the HOLA, the regulated output will be about 6.8V, the pack will be in regulation for at least 90% of the runtime, with a bit of dimming right at the end (not a lot of warning, maybe 1 minute).. and with hotdriver it just 'shuts off' when the batteries die.. however you can let the voltage recover a bit and use in 'short, controlled bursts' for a long time.. say you are stuck in the middle of a woods.. you could 'blink' your way out no problem.

With the LOLA, Jim's description is a bit more accurate.. since the regulation would be set about the Vnominal of the batteries.. the output would be dead-level for the first 20-30% of runtime, followed by a long plateau of a slight decline in output (would not be a visible dimming but would be measureable).. and at the end of cycle, the output would drop like a rock for a few seconds before shutting off.

The hotdriver shuts off at 75% output.. your eyes really won't notice a 25% dimming because they will 'open up' a bit as it gets darker, so you will usually not detect the dimming, but consider that with LOLA, you'll probably get 75-80 minutes of runtime.. anybody that is used to using the M6 will be blown away by how long this solution lasts!

-awr

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

andrewwynn, wquiles, js, thanks for the explanations. Didn't see the thread about the tailcap shortening modification. Now that I did, I'm all for the li-ion version.

Erm... Perhaps I'm running scared since I missed out on the M6-R group-buy so put me down for two rechargeable li-ion packs with parts for two modified tailcaps please! :grin2:

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

there will be no need to worry about missing out. I plan to get at least 100 tailcups made and will make as many of these as people want. since the labor is farmed out the turnaround will be reasonable once the metal parts are made.. that will take about 2 monhts once i get the $ to order them.

-awr

Re: Regulated M6 hotdriver coming soon

Hi Andrew -

This is my current ( waiting for the new tailcap-insert etc. ) short term solution



This uses a Modamag 6AA adaptor modified/shortened to 2s3p-LIR123 and runs for 15mins down to 3.3V/batt.

The space at the bottom will allow a regulator to fit.

With your orange batt-pack I take it you will not be using the large spring.

Will you be using the new high current AW-LiIons instead of the raw 17500s shown ? (edit: Just noticed Orange cells are ICR17500 so guess that means protected cells !) Will it be a pack charging system solution or removable cells ?

With the new Tailcap-Insert will there be room for a PIR1 or is the PIR1 too tall - looks taller than the HotDriver overall - Hybrid system using your Pack and Tail-Insert with a PIR1 could give High and Low output using just an MN21 ( sorry if I'm being rude mentioning the PIR1 in your thread )

Anyway - all looking very interesting now its coming together and can't wait for the final recipe to be cooked up

Thanks Pete