LaCrosse BC-9009 / BC-900 - The Melt-Downs Continue...

[Mr Happy]

mario jp, probably. I have the notorious v.32 so we know it didn't have the lower temp cutoff which is probably what happened with mine.

Possibly the cut-off wouldn't help. Many have speculated that the meltdown problem occurs when the internal circuit gets locked into a high current on state, possibly due to a mains glitch, and will not respond to any inputs. In that state it would not respond to any high temperature signals either.

 

[45/70]

Possibly the cut-off wouldn't help. Many have speculated that the meltdown problem occurs when the internal circuit gets locked into a high current on state, possibly due to a mains glitch, and will not respond to any inputs. In that state it would not respond to any high temperature signals either.

Just a reminder to all, that nikiwind's capacitor mod seems to eliminate the resetting problem many of these units have. I have frequent (at least once per day) mains instability problems, as I live in a rural area, and have cured the resetting problem with my v.32 BC900 by performing this mod. I don't know whether the mod will prevent the situation Mr Happy mentions above, but it should go a long ways towards helping to prevent it.

As Mario says however, though I improved the thermistor contact area when I did the mod, the v.32 versions are still capable of cooking cells, as the temp cutoff is higher than the v.33 and later versions. Still, I consider this a worthwhile mod, as it can clear up at least some of the problems associated with this charger.

Dave

 

[Light Sabre]

I have 2 BC900's version 32. Have had them 4 years. They are protected first by a surge arrestor and then by a UPS. I only charge AA's at 700mA and AAA's at 500mA. Haven't had a single problem whatsoever. After hearing about all the problems other people have been having I thought about building a safety fuse and cable deal. It would have a jack for the AC Adapter, the fuse in a small project box would be a 4A fast blow, and about a foot or 2 of cable to plug into the charger. If the charger locks up and goes full blast the fuse would blow immediately. This wouldn't require any mod to the AC adapter or the charger itself. You could even put a capacitor in the project box for additional noise filtering.

 

[MarioJP]

I have Version 35 and cells gets hot as it is. I do notice a pattern when cells gets that hot even at 500mA rate. That shows that the cells are becoming crap. I have the Lacrosse AA and AAA cells that came included. Charging AAA cells at 500mA can easily overheat the cells. So I am thinking that the version 35 they lowered the cutoff temp just enough to avoid melting.

 

[Turbo DV8]

Has anyone here ever had LaCrosse replace a charger and the cells it destroyed during the meltdown before?

Although I feel your pain, and own three of the BC-900's myself, I think it bit unreasonable to expect a company to replace your 2+ year old BC-900 which has, what, a one year warranty? If you'd expected this extended duration free replacement period from the get-go, should have done some warranty homework first and gone with Maha's three year warranty in the first place.

 

[Mr Happy]

This is a tricky one. Warranties usually are designed to cover defects in manufacture. But it would appear from detailed analysis by knowledgeable people that the BC-900 is defective in design. Since LaCrosse is evidently unwilling to admit this in public, you are left with two options: buy it and take the risk of a meltdown, or decline to accept the risk and don't buy it.

Quite frankly, I don't understand why LaCrosse has not done the obvious and had the design defects corrected (or at least improved). It seems they would rather do nothing while continuing to deny there is a problem.

While the BC-900 is a charger I found rather interesting and almost bought before I learned more about the subject, I am now very firmly in the don't risk it camp.

 

[Beacon of Light]

Although I feel your pain, and own three of the BC-900's myself, I think it bit unreasonable to expect a company to replace your 2+ year old BC-900 which has, what, a one year warranty? If you'd expected this extended duration free replacement period from the get-go, should have done some warranty homework first and gone with Maha's three year warranty in the first place.

there is a huge difference in warranty issues where the item just stops working and a recall issue where the product melts or blows up causing fires. Safety issues should be covered despite the warranty. Had I placed the cells on the charger and left for a couple of hours to do some errands, I could have returned to my sister's house being on fire.

Also that customer service representative was supposed to email me instructions on returning the charger and power supply back to LaCrosse and not surprisingly I got nothing from them. I will be calling again Monday morning. I'm going to get a manager on the phone and raise some hell to get some satisfaction with this assbackwards company.

 

[WDG]

...Quite frankly, I don't understand why LaCrosse has not done the obvious and had the design defects corrected (or at least improved). It seems they would rather do nothing while continuing to deny there is a problem...

I'd guess they're following the advice of their legal counsel on this (not that it's necessarily good advice.) Anytime a company corrects a discovered defect or problem with any product, it's an admission that there was a defect or problem to begin with. Some companies wither from the potential legal liability that exposes them to. Others 'man-up' and say, "You know what? We made a mistake. Now we're going to make it right."

In the 80's there was long debate in the motorcyclist press about the issues with shaft-drive, where acceleration would push the rear tire down and deceleration would pull it up, potentially causing a loss of grip at an inopportune time. The solution was known to pretty much everyone, but almost no company wanted to implement it, as it was expected to expose them to an endless string of lawsuits.

From what I'm reading here, it seems plausible that LaCrosse may be trying to walk a very fine line between getting sued for admitting a problem and getting sued for ignoring it. When someone gets hurt, maybe that'll bring it to a head.

(P.S. I'm not an attorney, so the above are merely my personal observations & opinions.)

 

[Beacon of Light]

So there have been no casualties resulting from the BC-900 or BC-9009 causing fires which caused someone's death? If this thing caused a fire, you can bet a lawsuit would result. All the documented cases of meltdowns and such would be brought into evidence as well.

Lord knows had this charger caused a fire at my sister's place, I would have gotten a lawyer ASAP and sued the crap out of LaCrosse.

 

[Turbo DV8]

there is a huge difference in warranty issues where the item just stops working and a recall issue where the product melts or blows up causing fires.

But just for the sake of argument, La Crosse would counter that neither the BC-900 nor it's power adapter was ever recalled!

 

[Turbo DV8]

In the 80's there was long debate in the motorcyclist press about the issues with shaft-drive, where acceleration would push the rear tire down and deceleration would pull it up, potentially causing a loss of grip at an inopportune time. The solution was known to pretty much everyone, but almost no company wanted to implement it, as it was expected to expose them to an endless string of lawsuits.

The "almost no company" would be BMW, which solved the issue of "shaft-jack" long ago with their Para-lever final drive... do I get a brownie or a gold star? Anything?

 

[Beacon of Light]

But just for the sake of argument, La Crosse would counter that neither the BC-900 nor it's power adapter was ever recalled!

I know that's exactly the angle the idiot customer service agent (Michelle) said when I mentioned the numerous cases of meltdowns of the BC-900 v.32, I countered that while they were never recalled, they SHOULD have been with the possibility of causing fires, regardless of if it was out of warranty or not.

 

[WDG]

The "almost no company" would be BMW, which solved the issue of "shaft-jack" long ago with their Para-lever final drive... do I get a brownie or a gold star? Anything?

Yep! BMW it was. I'm fresh out of brownies, so a Gold star to you! I haven't kept up with bikes so much in the last ten years, so I'm uncertain if this is still the case, but would not be at all surprised to learn nothing has changed.

When I was researching for my first helmet (Marushin) it was said that around 25% of the cost of helmets was legal expenses from lawsuits. That was around 1987, so I'd bet it's higher, now.

 

[illumiGeek]

Wow, those pics in the flickr link are the same charger I have. I thought most of the troubles were with the 9009, but now I'm wondering if I should sh*tcan my BC-900?

Mine says v22 on the bottom, but when I plug it in the display reads:

01 01 35

so I'm guessing that means v35 firmware? The wall-wart says model KSAFE0300400W1US on the sticker, and there's a 1308 stamped in the plastic.

How worried should I be about using this charger?

 

[Light Sabre]

Wow, those pics in the flickr link are the same charger I have. I thought most of the troubles were with the 9009, but now I'm wondering if I should sh*tcan my BC-900?

How worried should I be about using this charger?

IMHO I belive what is happening is that the electronics are pretty good and work decently. There are 3 problems going on. 1) the case of the charger has the batteries too close together for high current charging. Seems like a lot of people go by the 1/2C charging rule which puts you ~1A. 2) No fan to keep the batteries cool. My Rayovac IC3 charger has the batteries further apart and has a fan and can charge the IC3 batteries in 15-20 minutes. 3) When charging at 200mA sometimes the -delta V at the end of a charging cycle is too small for the charger to detect. So the charger just keeps going and going.

I have a version 3.2 BC-900 charger which from what I have read online has some problems. After reading all the messages on CPF about the BC-900 and BC-9009, what I do is charge AA's at 700mA and AAA's at 500mA. I have had no problems with this setup. The batteries get luke warm at end of cycle. My 2 chargers are here 2 feet to my right. I frequently check the display readings and battery temperature by hand. Both units sit on top of a small metal cookie sheet (non flammable). The power path to the chargers wall warts is as follows: wall plug, high joule surge arrestor, UPS, and a power strip with a short cord which has a largish night light plugged into it so that I can see from across the room whether the chargers are on or not. Lastly the power strip is turned off when the chargers are not in use. I have very few power glitches or power outtages where I live. So I think I have all the bases pretty much covered.

 

[45/70]

......what I do is charge AA's at 700mA and AAA's at 500mA. I have had no problems with this setup.

That's a good recommendation, Sabre. I do the same with my v.32 BC-900. It's been modified, but still has problems at lower rates than what you use. At the other end, in the Winter, when the room is a bit cooler (~65F), I usually go for 1000mA for AA cells, and haven't had any problems.

You do need to keep an eye on all of the La Crosse chargers, though. They aren't C9000's, that's for sure. Still there are some advantages to the La Crosse chargers that make them worthwhile. The biggest plus being that when they complete the charge, the cells are pretty much charged, unlike the C9000's, which require an unmonitored 2 hr "top off" charge.

Dave

 

[Batang Regla]

So its not advisable to buy these two models and buy bc700?

 

[45/70]

So its not advisable to buy these two models and buy bc700?

If you're referring to the La Crosse BC-9009 and BC-900, I 'd say yes. The BC-700 has had far fewer problems, however I believe it (and almost all "smart" chargers utilizing -dV) can have problems with termination, if the charge rate is too slow.

As for the Maha, it's a much better charger/analyzer, in my opinion. Still, it has it's caveats, but none seem to be safety issues. I have three C9000's and one BC-900, so......

Dave

 

[Trancersteve]

I have had my V33 for 5 years now and have never had a problem with it not terminating the charge. I always use 500mAh, 700mAh or 1000mAh charge current.

I also have the C9000 which I think is a fantastic charger. However the high frequency whine that my C9000 produces is boarding on unacceptable, so much so that I have banished it to the spare room when I use it!

What I like about the BC900 is the batteries come off the charger FULL! Unlike the C9000 which needs further time to reach maximum charge by trickle charging.. something which I find quite annoying if you are in a hurry and want a truly charged cell.

 

[Notsure Fire]

I have had my V33 for 5 years now and have never had a problem with it not terminating the charge. I always use 500mAh, 700mAh or 1000mAh charge current.

I also have the C9000 which I think is a fantastic charger. However the high frequency whine that my C9000 produces is boarding on unacceptable, so much so that I have banished it to the spare room when I use it!

What I like about the BC900 is the batteries come off the charger FULL! Unlike the C9000 which needs further time to reach maximum charge by trickle charging.. something which I find quite annoying if you are in a hurry and want a truly charged cell.

Well said. I observed the same things.