Maglight Solitaire - Why not an LED?

[M@elstrom]

12 years later, I finally disposed of that disposable flashlight. 12 years . . . Not one of my M@glites came close to being as good, yes even quality-wise, as that $1.99 GE flashlight. Best two bucks I've ever spent in my life. 12 years of reliable service. Once again, none of my M@glites (past or present) were even remotely as good as that GE disposable I bought all those years ago.

But okay, I'll give M@glite credit for actually opening up their R&D department since sealing the doors and apparently bricking over them for almost 40 years.

Well now you can have a Maglite with as much output as your $1.99 light except in a AAA form factor :thumbsup:

 

[tickled]

As the LED mini mag came out at over 2.5x the price of the incan models and is still normally priced around $20 vs less than $10 for the incan we backtrack a $6 solitaire to $12-$15 range for an LED version.

$15 would be too much for this. There are too many much nicer competitors available at $20 and some of them are even available at some traditional B&M stores. Though I suspect that despite a high price, it would fare well thanks to the name.

 

[karnevil]

This simply isn't their target market.
And where would the avg American go to buy cr123 batteries?

They sell Surfire 123's at Lowes in a 2pk for about $5.

 

[Monocrom]

Well now you can have a Maglite with as much output as your $1.99 light except in a AAA form factor :thumbsup:

To be honest, I'd rather track down another one of those "Halloween style" GE flashlights.

Owned it back before I developed a true interest and fascination in lights. I wasn't exaggerating about how good that GE light was.

 

[bstrickler]

I'm thinking the LED solitaire requires almost a complete redesign as the tiny size has to include a boost circuit and change reflectors possibly adding a longer one. If they go with a 5mm LED then pricing has to be lower than with a more powerful LED solution. In a light that uses a AAA battery either they will have to include a lithium battery or use an underdriven cree in it so it will give somewhat useful runtimes off alkaline batteries. If they could do as dorcy did with their AAA LED light but one better put a cree in it and multimode driver and offer it for $15 or less it could sell but the average person may look at it and spend $5 more for a 2AA or 3AAA light instead.

If you use something like the ZXLD380, you can get the board to about 7mm, probably even smaller, if you design a multi layer board. Easily fits inside a Soli. Similar output to an E01, and cost less than ~75 cents for you and me to make, so you figure it'd cost them maybe 10-20 cents to make, not including LED, if they redesign it.

Without knowing any actual numbers, it would not surprise me to discover it's sold primarily as a corporate logoed promotional item. That's what mine was, along the my two AAA MiniMags.

Mine is a Marines Solitaire, so they probably made a fortune off the military.

 

[peterkin101]

Credit for moving forward? The guy in charge sat on his laurels for close to 40 years. And then often tried to sue all of his competitors out of business. A few of the lawsuits were legit. Many were beyond frivolous. Clearly the competition realized that they have to spend a great deal on attorney fees if they hoped to make a profit in this industry. It's only because of all the competitors who couldn't be sued out of existence that M@glite even bothered with upgrades just a couple of years ago.

I can't think of another company that has managed to sell the very same products, made exactly the same way, for almost 40 years while turning a profit. And, having owned more M@glites than any other brand of flashlight (except SureFire) I can honestly say that I found the M@glites I've owned over the years to be no where remotely as good as my first full-sized disposable flashlight. My orange 2D, GE model with a black plastic bezel lasted me far longer than any of my M@glites. 12 years of trouble-free service. And, the beam quality from its dimpled, plastic reflector, was considerably better than the various full-sized M@glites I've owned.

I even remember the night I bought that flashlight. I needed to inspect my car for damage from a small fender bender that was my fault earlier in the day. I stopped at the outskirts of my neighborhood, parked, and went to a late-night convenience store I remembered being nearby. Asked the clerk for the best flashlight they sold. He held up an orange GE model that he told me had served him well on a nightly basis. He then pointed to a barrel that was full of them. $1.99 without batteries. I bought one, bought a couple of D-cells, and headed back to my car to check the damage that night.

12 years later, I finally disposed of that disposable flashlight. 12 years . . . Not one of my M@glites came close to being as good, yes even quality-wise, as that $1.99 GE flashlight. Best two bucks I've ever spent in my life. 12 years of reliable service. Once again, none of my M@glites (past or present) were even remotely as good as that GE disposable I bought all those years ago.

But okay, I'll give M@glite credit for actually opening up their R&D department since sealing the doors and apparently bricking over them for almost 40 years.

I know where you're coming from with the general point you make about Mr Maglica suing competitors.

However in his shoes, would YOU stand idly by whilst a ex partner and child set up a rival organisation, attempted to muscle into your hard-earned market and attempted to poach your staff and trade secrets (by default)?

And I've owned Maglites in one form or another for over twenty years.

Yep there's a few valid moans insomuch that they aren't at the cutting edge of torch technology at present.

But all this knocking their reliability?

I owned a MagCharger for over 15 years and had been soaked, banged and dropped from 3m onto a hard concrete pavement.

Apart from a gouge out of the head it worked and continued to work perfectly until sold for a V3 model.

Everything else from the Solitaire to the 6D has always served me well and apart from battery leakage (NOT Maglites fault of course) have been faultless in their operation and reliability.

As for Maglite selling the same products for over 40 years will little or no change.

If something is right first time does it need to change?

When did you last come across a non-circular steering wheel?

It's been done over here in the UK, a long forgotten about car called the Austin Allegro was offered with a 'Quartic' steering wheel which was a square shape with rounded edges.A stunning runaway success-NOT!

It's good to hear you got an extreme bargain with your $1.99 torch-sometimes it can happen like that.

There is some merit in your points that Mr Maglica is slow at introducing anything new.

Newer isn't automatically better though.

But I for one,having found out the hard way with an ASP torch, will NEVER EVER buy anything with a CR123A power ever supply again.

So yes I'd love to see Mr Maglica at the tip of the blade when it comes to technology but I'll be buying his products on an as-needed basis provided he sticks to providing tough reliable products at reasonable prices.

 

[peterkin101]

They sell Surfire 123's at Lowes in a 2pk for about $5.

Try getting them in the UK at that price.

Absolutly FNC where NC stands for No Chance.

And the biggest problem is that if you are out in the middle of nowhere or maybe not in a big city in the UK the chances of acquiring CR123A's is next to zero.

Finally when did you last come across a CR123A powered torch which gave you any idea at all then the batteries were about to run flat?

 

[peterkin101]

Maglite refuses to give knowledgable consumers what they want. A tail cap switch on the 2aa models, orange peel reflectors for better beam quality, a light with a cr123 form factor, a real tactical light, a light that produces over 250 lumens, the list goes on. Most of the new rechargeable flashlight take lithium-ion packs and all are led. Maybe in 2020 the new led magcharger with a lithium-ion battery pack will be released along with a led solitaire.

Well there are one or two points you raise here and whilst I would like to see Maglite introduce some of these I listed below my opinions as to why it isn't happening. This isn't 'insider knowledge' just my 'feel':

1) Lithium Ion technology-big advantages with weight, minimal 'memory effect' and power density enabling Lithium Ion cells to be smaller and more powerful than NiMh and NiCd. Disadvantages include need to incorporate sophisticated power management and safety circuitry in both the cells and the charger. Lithium-Ion cells can be VERY dangerous if they go faulty. A few posts in CPF will show why.

2) LED Technology-big advantages in brightness and also in power consumption. Although getting better all the time, LED's are like diamonds-have to be graded for colour temperature (white light or blue,purple,green tint?). Maglite have started introducing LED Technology into some of their range. But when was the last time you came across an American manufacturer of LED's for use in torches? AFAIK ALL are Made in China-and that makes Mr Maglica's blood boil. He is FANATICAL about keeping Americans in work as much as possible.

3) Tactical light with CR123A's-there is a model called the MagTac but hasn't come out yet for whatever reason. I for one will NOT be buying it-sorry but I HATE CR123A's great for a time and then go flat without warning.

4) IMHO the 'Tactical' market is absolutly AWASH with models. CR123A (or even 18650) powered, 200+ Lumen, made with aircraft grade aluminium with Type III Hard Anodised coating, waterproof to IPX8 standard, Surefire style crenallated fronts. Take your pick from dozens!

The other thing to bear in mind is that most if not all of this is patented elsewhere. If Maglite want to start incorporating all this in one go they'll be shelling out for royalties or facing lawsuits of their own.

Finally, I think there is enough inertia now for Maglite to introduce an LED replacement for the MagCharger but Mr Maglica is playing his cards very close indeed to his chest.

So when it comes out we'll all fall over with shock.

 

[mat_the_cat]

Finally when did you last come across a CR123A powered torch which gave you any idea at all then the batteries were about to run flat?

My Surefire A2 does - the incandescent goes dim for a while, then refuses to light, then finally I have many hours left on just LEDs:nana: Doesn't make it the right torch for everybody though, and I sympathise with being able to find CR123A batteries over here in a shop at a good price, although I have recently found a good mail order supplier who happened to be local too!

Sorry to go O/T. I still like Maglites, as I know that simply because of their huge numbers sold, spares won't be a problem even if Magite themselves stop support for older models. It's useful having a Solitare to hand just to realise how far we've come since then!

 

[karnevil]

Try getting them in the UK at that price.

Absolutly FNC where NC stands for No Chance.

And the biggest problem is that if you are out in the middle of nowhere or maybe not in a big city in the UK the chances of acquiring CR123A's is next to zero.

Finally when did you last come across a CR123A powered torch which gave you any idea at all then the batteries were about to run flat?

The post I responded to asked where a general American could get a 123A at a decent price. As for a 123A light with low battery warning, the Nitecore EC1 and EC2 are have an indicator light.

Finally, I think there is enough inertia now for Maglite to introduce an LED replacement for the MagCharger but Mr Maglica is playing his cards very close indeed to his chest.

So when it comes out we'll all fall over with shock.

Check out the Maglite ML125. It is pretty much an LED MagCharger.

 

[Monocrom]

I know where you're coming from with the general point you make about Mr Maglica suing competitors.

However in his shoes, would YOU stand idly by whilst a ex partner and child set up a rival organisation, attempted to muscle into your hard-earned market and attempted to poach your staff and trade secrets (by default)?

I stopped buying M@glite products after learning about a certain lawsuit against Arc in which the issue was placement of lettering along the bezel of Arc's single-AAA keychain offering. Ridiculous beyond belief! As for other lawsuits . . . It's clear that the founder of M@glite genuinely believes that he's invented every single flashlight innovation that exists, has existed, and will exist in the future. Sue-happy is far too mild a term to describe him. If I were in his shoes, would I protect my creation? Absolutely! Would I file one ridiculously frivolous lawsuit after another until my lawyers were practically dropping dead from exhaustion? No.

And I've owned Maglites in one form or another for over twenty years.

Yep there's a few valid moans insomuch that they aren't at the cutting edge of torch technology at present.

But all this knocking their reliability?

Simply relating my previous experience with numerous M@glite models. Yes, they've failed on me. To be clear, different models, different issues.

I owned a MagCharger for over 15 years and had been soaked, banged and dropped from 3m onto a hard concrete pavement.

Apart from a gouge out of the head it worked and continued to work perfectly until sold for a V3 model.

No doubt M@glite builds the MagCharger to a much better standard than their other full-sized models. Personally, I had a 3D M@glite that lasted 3 years riding beside the driver's seat in my car. One day, I went to check to see if the batteries needed replacing. Light wouldn't switch on. I then noticed I couldn't screw the tailcap back on. I decided to inspect the lamp too. Now I couldn't screw the head back on. Removed the bezel ring, same issue. That light literally fell apart in my hands. I was left holding a bunch of pieces. Keep in mind, that light did nothing more strenuous than ride along with me in my car for 3 years. Not even my cheapest 3AAA No-Name lights from China suffered from that problem.

Everything else from the Solitaire to the 6D has always served me well and apart from battery leakage (NOT Maglites fault of course) have been faultless in their operation and reliability.

I honestly wish my M@glites performed that way for me as well. However, I'd be lying if I said my numerous M@glites have been completely reliable.

As for Maglite selling the same products for over 40 years will little or no change.

If something is right first time does it need to change?

No. Perfection needs no improvement. However, based on my personal experience over the years with numerous examples of their lights, M@glite is no where remotely close to perfection. And, definitely didn't get things right the first time.

When did you last come across a non-circular steering wheel?

When I saw a classic 1903 Oldsmobile. But getting back to lights . . .

It's good to hear you got an extreme bargain with your $1.99 torch-sometimes it can happen like that.

There is some merit in your points that Mr Maglica is slow at introducing anything new.

Newer isn't automatically better though.

When it's been about 40 years, and your competitors are drastically eating into your market-share, yeah; that would be an example of when newer is definitely the way to go.

But I for one,having found out the hard way with an ASP torch, will NEVER EVER buy anything with a CR123A power ever supply again.

So yes I'd love to see Mr Maglica at the tip of the blade when it comes to technology but I'll be buying his products on an as-needed basis provided he sticks to providing tough reliable products at reasonable prices.

Well, that's the thing. I haven't found his products to be tough, or reliable. There's something seriously wrong when a cheap disposable costing two bucks can outperform a full-sized M@glite in terms of output, beam quality, ruggedness, reliability, and price.

As for not wanting to rely on lights running off of multiple CR123 cells, I can understand that. I'd go with Streamlight's selection of non-CR123 based models. Especially their older rechargeable models.

 

[Blue72]

Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.

Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.


As far as lawsuits, you might as well boycott surefire and a host of other light companies for doing the same thing. Then also boycott Chinese light manufacturers for infringement, or misleading claims to the consumer

 

[tam17]

Sorry to interrupt the further derailing of this thread, but I have one trivial question to ask:

Are there any M@g insiders, dealers (or just well informed forum members) who are willing to share the MSRP and date of arrival in stores for the LED Soli? Official announcements and replies to customer queries coming from M@g are proven to be unreliable and very frustrating...:scowl:

Cheers

 

[peterkin101]

Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.

Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.

As far as lawsuits, you might as well boycott surefire and a host of other light companies for doing the same thing. Then also boycott Chinese light manufacturers for infringement, or misleading claims to the consumer

I was going to reply to Monocrom's rather anti-Maglite reply.

But you've done it just nicely.

Thanks very much.

 

[Slazmo]

I've got 1 and 2/3's of the Maglite Solitare and find them both 'weak as urine' in a nice way to say it...

Replaced them both with the Led Lenser K3 and never looked back - the only downside of the K3 is the button cell batteries that are hard to replace and have the contacts all go in properly...

Otherwise such a better light, in construction, light output and overall lifespan and warranty.

 

[srfreddy]

The only three lights that have failed on me are the incan AAA and AA minimags, and the Rebel AA minimag. YMMV, but I don't trust them.

 

[Monocrom]

Monocrom, I think you are the exception rather than the rule.

Are there better flashlights than maglite....of course. But let's not kid ourselves, maglite would not be as big as they are today if they were not decent lights. I have a minimag light that I have used for the past twenty years on almost a daily basis. Granted I have changed bulbs and eventually to aftermarket led, but the light has seen lots of use and some abuse.


As far as lawsuits, you might as well boycott surefire and a host of other light companies for doing the same thing. Then also boycott Chinese light manufacturers for infringement, or misleading claims to the consumer

You have to admit, it is rather odd that I've bought several M@glite models over the years from several different stores; and yet more than a few failed on me. The worst one being the one mentioned above that did nothing more than ride in my car for 3 years straight. I mean, last time I checked I didn't offend a witch who put a mild curse on me. Nor do I own a black cat as a pet that likes to cross my path on a consistent basis.

One of the reasons why M@glite is so big is clearly due to marketing. When I bought most of my M@glites I didn't have an interest in lights. Back when I was just "normal" I assumed, just like the vast majority of the population, that M@glite was the King of The Hill, the Top of The Mountain, the Impossible-To-Do-Better. Just a No-Brainer that if you wanted the best, you bought a M@glite! . . . And then I encountered that $1.99 GE model. Then, a few years later, I developed a real interest in flashlights. Let's face it, M@glite makes their money by selling primarily to the masses, not to flashaholics.

I had a 2AA Mini-Mag that, while swapping batteries, I sneezed. Completely unexpected sneeze. I squeezed down on the hollow barrel. Image my surprise when I couldn't insert the new batteries into the light. Took a closer look . . . When I squeezed down on the barrel, I deformed it into a slight oval instead of a round shape. Must admit, for about a second; I felt really strong. Sampson and Hercules had nothing on me! But then I came back down to reality.

Honestly, I think my position as one of SureFire's biggest critic of their odorous marketing practices on CPF is secure. I've been the one pointing some of them out on these boards. But as odorous as those practices are, seeing some of the incredibly frivolous lawsuits filed by M@glite . . . It's like saying a Sun-dial and a Rolex watch are both the same because they're both time-keeping tools. As for Chinese light manufacturers, I don't buy from the brands that engage in such shady business practices. Not all Brands from China operate that way though.

 

[Monocrom]

I was going to reply to Monocrom's rather anti-Maglite reply.

But you've done it just nicely.

Thanks very much.

Or perhaps you couldn't come up with an intelligent rebuttal to the points I brought up in that particular post. My points were not anti-M@glite. They were honest and truthful. Based on personal experience with numerous products from the company, over numerous years. To simply label them as "anti-M@glite" makes it clear that I'm dealing with a blindly devoted fan-boy who thinks the company and its products are perfect, always have been, and always will be. This is the last response to one of your posts you will get from me. Have a nice day.

 

[tam17]

Announcement on other specialized website stated "Expected Availability: July 2012".

Any news?

 

[Robin24k]

Nothing yet...the 2D LED Pro and 2AAA LED will be available first.