SABRE PEPPERLIGHT PEPPER SPRAY

[alpg88]

Yes, I am aware of NYC's predicament. It is why there is an exodus of New Yawkahz. People voting with their feet. BTW, what is the prospect of renting a U-Haul in NYC now? Last I heard, they had a shortage due to the exodus.

I'm pretty sure you can rent one now. exodus was mostly during pandemic, there was a shortage of not just u-haul trucks, but cars in general, prices went thru the roof, new and used, cars that you would not touch with a 10 foot pole, were selling like hotcakes for unbelievable price, but it starting to come down now. Everyone who could and wanted to leave already did, actually people moving back now a little due to companies ending remote work,

 

[alpg88]

The thread is about a flashlight and pepper spray (weapon)

Your advice is to not have anything in your hands! Good luck.

Do not twist my words, that is not what I said,

...keeping both hands occupied is the worst thing you can do when shtf.

it is pretty clear from the context I meant both items need to be in one hand leaving another one free.

 

[alpg88]

These lights were all over the surplus market the last few years. Would have bought one if I hadn't sold my Uzi first. Not my pics:

View attachment 46619

View attachment 46616

View attachment 46617

That is not something you want to use as a civilian in USA, and i do not mean Uzi, but a light attached to a weapon, you do not want to shine that on anyone, cuz you will be pointing a weapon, and pointing a loaded firearm on anyone without a good reason is a felony, whether the reason is good or not depends how DA sees it, and how good he is at convincing a jury, but 100% of the time DAs are not on your side if you are in a court room.

 

[DRW]

Do not twist my words, that is not what I said,


it is pretty clear from the context I meant both items need to be in one hand leaving another one free.

Good grief.

 

[DRW]

...cuz you will be pointing a weapon, and pointing a loaded firearm on anyone without a good reason is a felony...

Please provide a link to this law.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Yea, fortunately they were dropped, after pressure from pretty much all news, and media, there was another case, same as this, a bodega clerk was assaulted he stabbed the guy in his store,, spend a week in jail, on murder 1 charges, but it is only 2 cases, The point is made, do not dare to defend yourself, our justice system is on the side of criminals. Our Da known for dropping charges all the time.... against violent criminals, often he does not even charge them, nor sets any bail, lets them out same day to commit more violence tomorrow.

That's a damn shame.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

That is not something you want to use as a civilian in USA, and i do not mean Uzi, but a light attached to a weapon, you do not want to shine that on anyone, cuz you will be pointing a weapon,

...but this is what we are talking about, and whether or not it was a good reason is up to the individual in the moment--the DA ain't there, and neither is the jury--you are--all alone--no help--just you and an assailant. That weapon--with or without a light--is all there could be between you and the grave. You seem to be more afraid of the legal system than being killed by an assailant. It has been said before, and I will say it for you, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". Maybe you are prosecuted, and lose your case and go to prison, you are still alive. Anything can happen as long as you stay alive. Look at Mandela. Sentenced for life, served 27 years then became the leader of a country. I'm anti-communist, but just using him as a famous example of someone who got a life sentence and got out and did big things. Don't be so afraid of defending your life that you give in to helplessness. LEOs and military have lights on their weapons for a reason, primarily, you must identify your target, and make sure it is an enemy before you pull the trigger. In the civilian world, a separate hand-held light is generally better to I.D. a Bad Guy, then use the weapon with the light that is mounted on it. LEOs and military have both hand-held lights and weapon mounted lights for that reason.

and pointing a loaded firearm on anyone without a good reason is a felony, whether the reason is good or not depends how DA sees it, and how good he is at convincing a jury, but 100% of the time DAs are not on your side if you are in a court room.

Once you identify a threat, you have established "a good reason", and then it is legal to point your weapon with its light at the threat. No one is advocating pointing a lethal weapon at an innocent person. Also, keep in mind that pepper spray (also known as OC) is not a lethal weapon, nor generally viewed as an offensive weapon, but as a defensive, non-lethal weapon, which most LEOs and many military get sprayed with as part of their training.

 

[letschat7]

That is really cool. What kind of battery did it use?

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

That is really cool. What kind of battery did it use?

1xCR123A

 

[alpg88]

...but this is what we are talking about, and whether or not it was a good reason is up to the individual in the moment--the DA ain't there, and neither is the jury--you are--all alone--no help--just you and an assailant. That weapon--with or without a light--is all there could be between you and the grave. You seem to be more afraid of the legal system than being killed by an assailant. It has been said before, and I will say it for you, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". Maybe you are prosecuted, and lose your case and go to prison, you are still alive. Anything can happen as long as you stay alive. Look at Mandela. Sentenced for life, served 27 years then became the leader of a country. I'm anti-communist, but just using him as a famous example of someone who got a life sentence and got out and did big things. Don't be so afraid of defending your life that you give in to helplessness. LEOs and military have lights on their weapons for a reason, primarily, you must identify your target, and make sure it is an enemy before you pull the trigger. In the civilian world, a separate hand-held light is generally better to I.D. a Bad Guy, then use the weapon with the light that is mounted on it. LEOs and military have both hand-held lights and weapon mounted lights for that reason.

Once you identify a threat, you have established "a good reason", and then it is legal to point your weapon with its light at the threat. No one is advocating pointing a lethal weapon at an innocent person. Also, keep in mind that pepper spray (also known as OC) is not a lethal weapon, nor generally viewed as an offensive weapon, but as a defensive, non-lethal weapon, which most LEOs and many military get sprayed with as part of their training.

What you feel at that moment is irrelevant in a court room, unless you can prove it, entire states court system will be against you, if you think jury are an understandable bunch and will look for truth or justice, you are sadly mistaken, 99.9% of the time they are bunch of people who often do not want to be there, and want to get home fast, they do not care about you.
Does not matter what cops have or do, they are a special class that will get away with anything 99,99% of the time, laws work differently for them, they are part of the same system, judges are on their side 100% of the time.
Of course I will be defending myself or my family, if I have to, but unfortunately in todays political climate in half the states, you are between an anvil and a hammer when you do, so i chose to know all obstacles, and navigate between them, cuz if you think you survived the fight you are out of woods , nope, your problems only began. state can take your life saving, job, your freedom, ruin your family's life. and in civil court you can lose everything you have, cuz that MF family, or himself will sue you, and if you have a conviction related to that defense, they automatically win. I have a lawyer in my family, who sees real cases every day, Court system needs convicts, it does not care about justice. I call it prison cartel, not a justice system, cuz cartel describes it much better. If you think every case will be similar to Kyle Ritterhouse, or Zimmerman, there is 99% it will go the other way.

 

[letschat7]

Please provide a link to this law.

That may be state by state basis. When I was a CCW permit holder I was under the understanding that I could not draw my weapon without it being used as that is called brandishing. You can't even threaten to use a weapon. You may only draw and fire if you are in fear for your life because you are being attacked.

At some point due to my 'activities' I lost my permit but the state laws were due to change in like a week so I told the Sherriffs Deputies this and they got upset. I carried later on openly. When I totally lost my firearms rights I still carried. Now I have a felony over violating federal gun laws.

I'm not the 2nd amendment kind of guy because the constitution is a joke and I don't really care what the Americans think about anything nowadays. If you have money and can afford a weapon you should be able to have one. Laws only hurt law abiding citizens that are trying to stay out of trouble.

Any teenager can get a firearm, any criminal can get a firearm, any terrorist can get a firearm. The laws are a total joke. Even in places with strict regulation there are plenty of quality illegal firearms floating about.

I was locked up with a felon that used a gun acquired during an incident. It was used to kill an armed man who had discharged a different firearm. He got 10 years and was appealing it. It is hard to say how things play out in court but expect the bad guy and/or the police to make up any kind of story to make you seem to be the bad person.

Your best bet is try to avoid bad situations and bad people.

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

What you feel at that moment is irrelevant in a court room, unless you can prove it, entire states court system will be against you, if you think jury are an understandable bunch and will look for truth or justice, you are sadly mistaken, 99.9% of the time they are bunch of people who often do not want to be there, and want to get home fast, they do not care about you.
Does not matter what cops have or do, they are a special class that will get away with anything 99,99% of the time, laws work differently for them, they are part of the same system, judges are on their side 100% of the time.
Of course I will be defending myself or my family, if I have to, but unfortunately in todays political climate in half the states, you are between an anvil and a hammer when you do, so i chose to know all obstacles, and navigate between them, cuz if you think you survived the fight you are out of woods , nope, your problems only began. state can take your life saving, job, your freedom, ruin your family's life. and in civil court you can lose everything you have, cuz that MF family, or himself will sue you, and if you have a conviction related to that defense, they automatically win. I have a lawyer in my family, who sees real cases every day, Court system needs convicts, it does not care about justice. I call it prison cartel, not a justice system, cuz cartel describes it much better. If you think every case will be similar to Kyle Ritterhouse, or Zimmerman, there is 99% it will go the other way.

Look, I understand all of that. You aren't telling me anything new. I've been reading and watching that kind of stuff for years. Now, I think it is okay that you post that for the rest of the forum community that isn't into self-defense to read, but even with all that, a person should not be so intimidated that they do not defend themselves. If you go through hell, don't stop, keep going. You will either get through it or die, but one way or another it will end. There are legal plans for CCW licensed persons who are involved in a "good shoot". I won't list them here, but when you search for them, locate the one with Massad Ayoob involved in it, that would be a good one to consider. He has been testifying as an expert (former LEO) in SD trials for years.

 

[bykfixer]

You mean having nothing will make a more effective defense?

Yes. Think about it. You think you have a protective device. Your confidence goes up. Next thing you know innocent people get sprayed for "looking scarey" or worse, the user sprays them selves thinking they were turning on the flashlight.

Next time you're in an all you can eat buffet restaraunt or a WalMart imagine many of the trogolite offspring you see there having a flashlight with pepper spray. Sounds harsh, I know but reality is what it is.

 

[ABTOMAT]

That is really cool. What kind of battery did it use?

The Uzi light? Internet says two 2R10 3V batteries. Looks like you can get adapters that hold a CR123 in a 2R10 shell.

 

[letschat7]

Not defending yourself only empowers really bad people.

Small arms act as a deterrent for crime and can empower an otherwise weak individual to defend their self, perhaps even from multiple attackers.

They passed a lot of laws in my lifetime and it doesn't stop violent crime in this country. It only seems to be getting worse. I don't follow the news but people tell me about it.

When I was a kid I remember a gun attack in a gun free zone and all the police did was surround the place and let the attackers finish the job. They won't save you when need them, if they even show up.

Carrying a weapon and having the will and skills to use it could save your life or others.

 

[letschat7]

The Uzi light? Internet says two 2R10 3V batteries. Looks like you can get adapters that hold a CR123 in a 2R10 shell.

Oh thats cool. I just discovered some weird batts recently one being a 4.5v used in EU and a big screwtop lantern battery. I like the unusual cells.

 

[alpg88]

Yes. Think about it. You think you have a protective device. Your confidence goes up. Next thing you know innocent people get sprayed for "looking scarey" or worse, the user sprays them selves thinking they were turning on the flashlight.

Next time you're in an all you can eat buffet restaraunt or a WalMart imagine many of the trogolite offspring you see there having a flashlight with pepper spray. Sounds harsh, I know but reality is what it is.

well if you put it that way, yea, a complete moron with a oc spray is worse than one without.
As far as confidence, yes and no, Me personally i'd never use a spray, cuz it wont stop a determined attacker, especially on drugs, wind can blow it back at you and then you wont see anything, and again liability, spray someone who is sick or allergic, they god forbid they die, you go in for murder, even if this is the attacker you sprayed. even if they do not die, they will sue you for everything they got.
But as in the context of the thread we assume, for the sake of argument a person using it knows all of that, that is why i think he'll be better off with 1 hand free rather than both occupied.

 

[letschat7]

CS/OC spray does what newbies assume a flashlight does. It can blind a person and allow you to escape.

 

[alpg88]

Not defending yourself only empowers really bad people.

absolutely, could not agree with you more, however a DA, and a court system that lets violet criminals out , and prosecutes victims does it 100 times more,

 

[letschat7]

Well you see violent criminals often work with the police. They inform on other criminals or set people up for crimes so they can be out and about committing further offenses.