Weapon light discussion, (loosely) related topics welcome

[KITROBASKIN]

kerneldrop has already explained that the level of accuracy he requires is met with this method. No one is trying to say this gives refined accuracy.

So long ago there was a gun related shop in Albuquerque that promoted a non electric version of this for AR type rifles.

In a fight, distance between combatants directly correlates with necessary speed for success. Enhanced accuracy is not needed. The time required to get it results in failure with close encounters.

Perhaps kerneldrop will tell us what he thinks maximum range effectiveness for his stated target size with this method?

 

[Voider of Warranties]

Trijicon had a sight called the Ocluded Eye Gunsight or OEG about 30 years ago. It was similar to the Bindon Aiming Concept they use now on the ACOG, except you did not have the option to see through the sight. It took some getting used to.

 

[kerneldrop]

Perhaps kerneldrop will tell us what he thinks maximum range effectiveness for his stated target size with this method?

There may be some misunderstanding from previous posts.
The cover does not change or block the sight picture or degrade accuracy.
Your brain just uses the non-dominant eye to see the target and the dominant eye to see the dot.

1) I can see 100% of the target 100% of the time with the cover.
2) I only pull the trigger when I see the dot on target, 100% of the time. I may shoot a streak or a blur of a dot, but I only shoot when I see the dot on the target. (I know folks that train indoors with the optic off, but I do not)

Since I can see 100% of the target 100% of the time, the maximum range effectiveness is determined by the dot size, skill and ammo quality.
Hwansik Kim, when using this occluded cover, can put 6 shots inside of a golf ball with .17 seconds between shots at 10 yards with a polymer Walther PDP. He can do it in .14 splits with a steel frame walther PDP. That's nearly blinking speed.

How it's a training tool... when the sight picture darkens you are using your dominant eye too much. You stop and start over. The sight picture is bright and clear again. If and when it darkens again, stop, start over. Eventually, your brain learns. Now when I shoot for groups and concentrate really hard at my dot the sight picture darkens. But that's natural. When speed shooting for the 6x11.9" A-Zone my sight picture never darkens.

Seeing the target with your non-dominant eye and seeing the dot with your dominant eye is far faster than your dominant eye processing both the target and dot.

If you have a red dot try this exercise:
Pick a target on the wall. Now point at another place on the wall and look through the optic and try to get to the target as fast as possible.
Now point at the same place on the wall, look at the target then bring the dot to the target. You will be much much faster.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Questioning the validity of this application for 98% of shooters because people just are not shooting as much as Kerneldrop or the Hwansik Kim.

A 6X12 inch target at 10 yards or whatever is pretty large. At least a rifle with a cheek rest, longer purchase, and shoulder weld will offer a more consistent placement of the eyes in relation to this type of sighting method.

The inherent instability of holding a pistol out in front introduces many variables in terms of the relationship of the eyes and the pistol with the red dot, making accuracy more challenging.

To imply there is no reasonable range this method of shooting becomes ineffective is curious.

Range demonstrations with golf balls can be attempted over and over until done right for publication. The stress of Hwansik's mortality if it was a real world problem would certainly impact the golf ball fun, including bragging rights.

What would be more interesting is if kerneldrop dumped the whole red dot sight to see that he was almost as effective at those short ranges and large target, not taking time to align sights. Instinctive shooting, anyone?

 

[kerneldrop]

What would be more interesting is if kerneldrop dumped the whole red dot sight to see that he was almost as effective at those short ranges and large target, not taking time to align sights. Instinctive shooting, anyone?

It comes down to speed.
The faster you go the harder it gets.
At 10 yards 2mm of sight movement takes you out of the 6" width.

Check out this video. It's not directly related but it's an excellent instructional video that all can find helpful

Recoil management Deep Dive

www.hkimshooting.com

 

[SCEMan]

Trijicon had a sight called the Ocluded Eye Gunsight or OEG about 30 years ago. It was similar to the Bindon Aiming Concept they use now on the ACOG, except you did not have the option to see through the sight. It took some getting used to.

That was the Armson OEG. I had the predecessor, the Singlepoint OEG as used by the Son Tay Raiders in '70.

 

[Voider of Warranties]

Armson. That was the name. Thanks for the correction. To be honest, I hated that thing! Lol. I think I just didn't give my brain time to adapt.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

I sport shoot…so it's all about the transition from one target to the next with the goal of hitting a 6"x11" A-zone.

Hey I forgot your post about it being a sport for you. Sounds like you have a system that works well for you.

Thinking the video you linked showed the person using perhaps reduced recoil loads? Does not look like self defense pressures.

Nice to hear him talking about intent/aggression mindset.

His method for slide manipulation seemed to obstruct the ejection port? Was he using the optic as leverage? Do you think he has a reduced recoil spring, making it easier to retract?

 

[kerneldrop]

Hey I forgot your post about it being a sport for you. Sounds like you have a system that works well for you.

Thinking the video you linked showed the person using perhaps reduced recoil loads? Does not look like self defense pressures.

Nice to hear him talking about intent/aggression mindset.

His method for slide manipulation seemed to obstruct the ejection port? Was he using the optic as leverage? Do you think he has a reduced recoil spring, making it easier to retract?

My system works, but I'm still slow and inaccurate.
It's really a simple process.... the bullet goes where the muzzle is pointed when the trigger breaks. Just that easy. lol
If you stay relaxed, consistent and pull the trigger in a way that the muzzle doesn't move then you will be a very good pistol shooter.

Look up the Bill Drill. It's the gold standard benchmark drill that in 6 shots demonstrates all the above.

They are reloads, but they are not reduced recoil. He'll stay around the same power factor as factory ammo.
I imagine he uses a 12-13lbs recoil spring. Factory recoil springs slam the slide forward and causes a muzzle dip.

His slide manipulation will not obstruct the ejection port. Most of the pro level stages will have designed ejections so you need to have a 100% reliable and fast ejection method.

I grab both the optic and slide.
Grabbing the rear serrations from behind is too slow.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Opinions? Discuss amongst yourselves. 😁

 

[SCEMan]

Opinions? Discuss amongst yourselves. 😁

Over 10 lbs loaded
Too heavy for an old man like me...

 

[desert.snake]

I read somewhere that the lenses of flashlights for weapons are also lubricated with grease, a thin layer, so that carbon deposits do not eat into the glass and can be easily wiped and a new layer of lubricant applied. Does anyone actually use this trick? Something like a protective hand cream that dries, you can fumble around in various dust and dirt, and then you wash your hands and are clean again

 

[kerneldrop]

Opinions? Discuss amongst yourselves. 😁

16 rds....what's not to love? $1k at Palmetto State

My biggest problem with defense shotguns is the super heavy trigger pull. Even that one advertises an 11lbs trigger pull.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

Over 10 lbs loaded
Too heavy for an old man like me...

Watching a few videos of the DP-12 one downside consistently mentioned is the weapon's heft. However, something worth thinking about is how much time elapses during an average home defense scenario.

Ten pounds x how many minutes or seconds one needs to carry/shoulder it during a home defense situation. .......

I just held a five-pound weight (rifle style) in each hand for 20 seconds. DAMN! I need to start working out.

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

16 rds....what's not to love? $1k at Palmetto State

I know. RIGHT!

My biggest problem with defense shotguns is the super heavy trigger pull. Even that one advertises an 11lbs trigger pull.

11 lbs!? That's too heavy for an old man like me. 😟

 

[Chauncey Gardiner]

If PK had a son -

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

IF one is military fit or better, and IF one trains diligently with it, THEN I could see it being used practically as a tactical home defense weapon. But how many of the people that buy that monster fit that profile? IMO, a PCC would be more practical in that size package. If you want a shotgun, there are a lot of conventional tactical shotguns that I think are more practical for the average person. If you really want to get silly, get one of the old Streetweepers or one of the AK style shotguns. Likely no more impractical than the DP-12.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

KSG Series Bullpup Shotgun | Downward Shell Ejection | Specs | KelTec

Looking for the best tactical pump-action shotgun? The KSG has dual tubes for fast reloading, downward ejection, and a max 12+12 Capacity.

www.keltecweapons.com

7 lbs. unloaded, 5 lbs. trigger pull.
I have no experience with it.

 

[alpg88]

I read somewhere that the lenses of flashlights for weapons are also lubricated with grease, a thin layer, so that carbon deposits do not eat into the glass and can be easily wiped and a new layer of lubricant applied. Does anyone actually use this trick? Something like a protective hand cream that dries, you can fumble around in various dust and dirt, and then you wash your hands and are clean again

YEa, i saw that video, someone coats the lens with a vaseline, a thin layer, it maybe helpful with powder burn clean up, but can't see how it does not affect the beam. it would also attract dust and dirt before it is even used, powder residue will stick to it even more.

HOwever I noticed different brands of ammo use different power, my p94 has ss slide, with some ammo front of it turns very dirty after a box of ammo, with other even after several boxes there is very little residue, wipes off clean with no solvent

 

[IMA SOL MAN]

YEa, i saw that video, someone coats the lens with a vaseline, a thin layer, it maybe helpful with powder burn clean up, but can't see how it does not affect the beam. it would also attract dust and dirt before it is even used, powder residue will stick to it even more.

HOwever I noticed different brands of ammo use different power, my p94 has ss slide, with some ammo front of it turns very dirty after a box of ammo, with other even after several boxes there is very little residue, wipes off clean with no solvent

The CCI Blazer Brass 9mmP FMJ that I have shot was really dirty. I haven't fired SD ammo in some time, so it may have better powder that burns cleaner, maybe for low muzzle flash, IDK.

As far as a film applied to a light lens, I wouldn't use petroleum jelly (Vaseline), that is flammable. Yeah, I know, a thin film likely won't "burst into flames", but it just seems "wrong" to me.

There is a lens product called Cat Crap, that is used to prevent fogging of lenses. That might be good, IDK. Then there is Rain-X that might be an option, too.