Are Li-ion driven flashlights really safe??

[jkdguy]

I understand Li-ion driven flashlights can put out some major lumens... but, if so much care has to be taken in the charging/discharging and use of Li-ion cells in flashlights, is it worth the risk of overheating, or exploding?? What if your little one at home gets a hold of your prized torch, and leaves it on high in his pocket?

What do you guys think? Is it an overreaction to avoid Li-ion all together? So far I have decided to play it safe, and stick with my Eneloop AA/AAA driven lights!

Thanks for you help...

P.S.- I apologize for posting this in the wrong forum... Can a moderator move this to the battery section for me?

 

[Jarl]

If you keep an eye on you li-ion cells, you'll be VERY unlucky to have one vent with flame on you. If you're that worried, check out IMR18650's that AW is selling in the marketplace. It's a safe chemistry which can't vent with flame, but has the same voltage as traditional Li-ion, unlike LiFeP04. Also has a higher max charge (2.5 or 3C, can't remember exactly) and discharge (10C) rate . They're not protected though, so it's possible to overdischarge the cells and damage them. In this case damage leads to higher internal resistance and lower capacity, hence lower cycle life.

 

[richardcpf]

Li-ion chemistry is widely used in most of electronic devices. Cellphones, ipods, laptops, toys...

There are thousand millions of li-ions battery users in the world, and only few reported accidents related to flashlights. Most of these accidents, if not all, are caused by unproper use of these cells, Such as short circuiting, over drawing current or overcharging.

If a kid leaves your flashlight turned on high in his pocket... nothing will happen. But of course, it is your responsability to know the safety rules when operating with li-ions and not letting kids play with it.

There are hundreds of threads related to li-ion safety and accidents.. just do a search.

 

[PhantomPhoton]

My personal opinion is they are quite safe.
Most problems happen during charging, or improper use (short circuiting, putting too much load on unprotected cels,overdischarging, etc)
Using a quality light esigned to be used with LiIons, and using quality cells with a quality charger means there's very little extra work or worry involved. Nothing a cheap multimeter and 30 seconds can't handle.

The only instance I wouldn't reciommend a LiIon flashlight is a profession that requires certified safe lights like a firefighter. And then its the matter of the light, not necessarilly the LiIon cell.

 

[mdocod]

This was posted in the wrong part of the forum for a question about batteries, which is the case with about 75% of battery related question so I digress...

I'm sure DM51 will be along shortly to "fix" this... I'm sure he's getting sick of transferring a half a dozen or more threads per day to the batteries/electronics section... If anyone reads this, please, watch where you are posting things, there is a category for almost everything illumination or electronics related topic on this forum.

---------------------

With that said...

Li-Ion chemistry often gets lumped together unfairly into one big heap. And often Li-Ion rechargeable cells take the blame for explosions that had nothing to do with li-ion cells. If you want to be scared of a cell type, do a search for exploding cells and see what explodes most frequently... Cheap lithium primary CR123 cells! After that in the line of danger we have: More pricey USA made CR123 cells! After that: User error related cases of Li-Ion use, sometimes it's not even a li-ion cell in question but instead a CR123 that someone THOUGHT was rechargeable. I am not aware of a SINGLE report of an exploding li-ion cell on this forum from a reputable brand when used in accordance with manufacture suggestions.

Beyond that, Lithium Cobalt is the only common li-ion chemistry that is even technically all that dangerous, we now have lithium manganese oxide and lithium iron phosphate chemistry, which are both remarkably safe if you wanted to use something different... They have a lower energy density though, so, IMO, just use NIMH powered flashlights if safety is an issue, stick to eneloops to replicated most of the advantages of li-ion. (low self-discharge, cycle life, etc etc)...

Eric

 

[kramer5150]

safety comes with responsibility. Its no different than saying handguns, and cars are unsafe.

I use both protected and unprotected cells in various lights, as well as primaries.... safety comes with responsibility.

You have to evaluate what kind of user you are. Do you just want to load em', charge em', deplete em'... and not think about it? Or are you the "type" who is relentless with rules, safety precautions, and the likes?

I have about a dozen (or so) rules I live by to keep my Lithium-ion use safe. One of those rules is to ALWAYS keep cells AWAY from my children. They should almost be treated and stored like live ammo.

 

[orcinus]

Are petrol driven cars really safe?

How about gas driven stoves?
Or oxygen driven humans, for that matter? Oxygen enables some pretty volatile reactions... :nana:

 

[jkdguy]

Thanks for the responses... and sorry about posting this to the wrong area. I do understand that one would need to use quality Li-ion cells, and be responsible in the usage of them. (The responsibility factor applies to many things in life... cars, guns, knives, time machines, etc.)

 

[orcinus]

(The responsibility factor applies to many things in life... cars, guns, knives, time machines, etc.)

Don't forget very large magnets!

 

[Gunner12]

As you found out, they are safe as long as you do what your supposed to.
Don't overcharge, Don't overdischarge, Don't short then out, Don't put too much load on them(protected Li-ion batteries prevent against those four, IIRC too much load is over 2x the rated capacity), Don't puncture them, Don't throw them in fire, Don't shoot them out of a gun, Don't try to eat them, Don't boil them.....

Don't forget very large magnets!

YES, I got pinched a few tomes by smaller ones.

 

[divine]

I was reading specifications for an MRI machine the other week and there was a note on one of the pages that said, "The weight of the magnets is 391,000 lbs."

 

[MKLight]

Hey! Search CPF Member "CY". His sig line has a link to useful info he's put together.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[roymail]

There are currently some very bright lights which operate at 1.0-5.0 volts on NiMH lsd cells.

 

[Sgt. LED]

They are great!

I find them very safe but then again I carried real grenades for years........

Just have enough good sense to buy AW protected cells and you'll be fine.

 

[KiwiMark]

What do you guys think? Is it an overreaction to avoid Li-ion all together?

Yes!

I have several lights running on AW protected Li-ion cells (1x16340, 1x14500, 1x18670, 2x16340) and I am NOT kept up late at night with worry.

I have ordered 2 x Protected D-Cell Li-ion (and a suitable charger) to run in a Maglite 2D - this will give a superior amount of energy (over twice the power of 6xAA cells) to run a Malkoff drop-in with voltage of 6 NiMH cells in the size of 2 cells. This is an option provided by Li-ion and I am happy to try it.

 

[jkdguy]

What do you guys think? Is it an overreaction to avoid Li-ion all together? So far I have decided to play it safe, and stick with my Eneloop AA/AAA driven lights!

Is it an unspoken rule to "never quote thyself"? Oh, well.... I realized after writing my original post that I actually use Li-ion devices often. I've never thought twice about putting my cell phone up to my ear, laying my hand on the keyboard of my Mac laptop, or dropping my iPod in my pocket!

So maybe my avoidance all together of Li-ion torches is a bit overly cautious!
Thanks again for all the ideas, and the laughs!

 

[DM51]

This was posted in the wrong part of the forum for a question about batteries, which is the case with about 75% of battery related question so I digress...

I'm sure DM51 will be along shortly to "fix" this... I'm sure he's getting sick of transferring a half a dozen or more threads per day to the batteries/electronics section... If anyone reads this, please, watch where you are posting things, there is a category for almost everything illumination or electronics related topic on this forum.

Thank you - I couldn't have put it better myself!

I'm moving the thread to the Batteries section now.

 

[Fallingwater]

do a search for exploding cells and see what explodes most frequently... Cheap lithium primary CR123 cells! After that in the line of danger we have: More pricey USA made CR123 cells! After that: User error related cases of Li-Ion use, sometimes it's not even a li-ion cell in question but instead a CR123 that someone THOUGHT was rechargeable

If you're talking about searching just this board then yes, but if you broaden your search to the entire net you'll see that the most dangerous cells are by far high-discharge LiPo ones for RC use. The high discharge capacity coupled to complete lack of protection and soft casing make them extremely excitable little things.

 

[45/70]

I've said it before, I feel considerably safer with a Li-Ion in my pocket than a lithium primary. I don't want to put an exact number on it, but if you search the forums, you will find that a lithium primary, or an alkaline, for that matter, is about 10 times more likely to blow up in your pocket than a Li-Ion. Unless you go around charging batteries in your pants pocket, IMO, Li-Ions are safer.

Dave

 

[5.0Trunk]

I have ordered 2 x Protected D-Cell Li-ion (and a suitable charger) to run in a Maglite 2D - this will give a superior amount of energy (over twice the power of 6xAA cells) to run a Malkoff drop-in with voltage of 6 NiMH cells in the size of 2 cells. This is an option provided by Li-ion and I am happy to try it.

Can you tell me what and where you ordered the Ds from?

Thanks