Are Surefires really worth the $$$ ?

[Firebladz]

Who would have thought that one simple little question qould have received so much attention? LoL... However, I am asking myself now if surefires really are worth money for example...

I was looking at Inova lights and they seem fairly comparable for a fraction of the cost!

And almost all the Inova light have received 5 stars from flashlightreviews.com

So how can inova offer a premium LED, weather proof, aluminum, HAIII coated, regulated, good optics, lightweight, powerful light for roughly a third or even quarter the price of most SF's??? :huh2:

Firebladz.

 

[Haesslich]

Who would have thought that one simple little question qould have received so much attention? LoL... However, I am asking myself now if surefires really are worth money for example...

I was looking at Inova lights and they seem fairly comparable for a fraction of the cost!

And almost all the Inova light have received 5 stars from flashlightreviews.com

So how can inova offer a premium LED, weather proof, aluminum, HAIII coated, regulated, good optics, lightweight, powerful light for roughly a third or even quarter the price of most SF's??? :huh2:

Firebladz.

They're comparable in the way that a Mini Maglight is comparable with a Streamlight TL-3; they'll both light things up at close range, but beyond that it's hard to compare them in terms of features and performance. The TL-3 puts out more light, is more powerful, and costs a heck of a lot more than the Maglight does... but both will do the job pretty well if you're only shining it at a target 5-6 inches away.

The Inovas use LuxI's or maybe LuxIII's in most of their lights, and I've personally found their performance to be somewhat lacking, perhaps due to the Luxeon in question or the optics which put a bright spot out at a distance... though I find a Scorpion LED to be more useful overall, in its output, even if it costs a bit more.

The Surefires tend to be more expensive due to labor costs, materials costs, and the lifetime service that the company says it puts behind them. And I've yet to see an Inova with a LuxV in it, much less anything that has the sheer luminous output of a L5, L2, or U2.

I need to do a search here to see if anyone's compared a KL1 4th Gen with the Inova T1, which is roughly in the same size and battery configuration category.

 

[Sixpointone]

In my opinion, YES, Surefire is absolutely worth the money.

 

[Grox]

Inovas are good lights in their own right. But if you get an inova there will always be that niggling "what if" in the back of your mind. Bear in mind inova's inflated lumen rating when buying them.

Honestly, once you've got your first SF you'll see what we're talking about. You could try B/S/T here and get a used light. If you don't like it you can just resell it here, probably for what you bought it for.

 

[TORCH_BOY]

If you have got the money they are,
If you haven't some of the other lights
come very close for a lot less Bucks

 

[stogiez]

Hi all,

I too am new to the enlightened world of illumination tools. I'm starting with a SL Scorpion (incan), PT Surge, and a SF G2. I researched extensively to find what I perceive are the better choices for the price & size.

I can only offer an opinion on the G2. I'd pass on it.

I tested them out in the Texas plains at night, in the middle of a 7,000 acre ranch, without any light pollution whatsoever. My buddies and I were on a dove hunt and we waited around until dark to fire up the torches and see what's what. Here are my informal observations:

SL Scorpion - liked it alot. Liked the adjustable beam, for reaching out to about 25-30 yards. Didn't care for the rubber cover. It "hangs up" on pockets. Wonder how long the cover will last before the bottom cuts out and exposes the switch? Lamp is easy to change. Just make sure your work surface is close to you when you change the lamp, because if you drop it, good luck. Those lamps are tiny. But they work well.

PT Surge - The plastic was a bit too slick and it was kinda hard to control at times. Switch is kinda finicky. Battery carrier came unseated a couple of times and would not function. Is this unusual? Loved the beam. Size was good, especially for the amount of light it generates. Didn't have to change the lamp. Loved the water resistant rating, as I do occasional scuba.

SF G2 - Light was equal to the others. Be careful if you put it in your back pocket. You can activate the thumb button, and you will start to get a "warming" sensation. It will get VERY warm. Liked the slick plastic, but I don't think it would just "fall out" of a pocket. I found out that the lamp itself cannot be replaced. You must replace the ENTIRE lamp assembly. I called SF and they confirmed. Why would I need to replace the reflector when only the lamp is burned out? SF can give me all the excuses they want, (and they did) but I still don't get it. Maybe later I will. To me, this increases the ownership costs of this light significantly.

When comparing it to the SL Scorpion, the G2 is not worth the money. Yes, there are issues with the Scorp, but I can take off the rubber sleeve. I'd even recommend the Surge over the G2, because of the costs associated with the lamp assembly.

 

[beezaur]

I found out that the lamp itself cannot be replaced. You must replace the ENTIRE lamp assembly. . . . Why would I need to replace the reflector when only the lamp is burned out?

I used to have a 3P (1-cell version of 6P) that was retired for that reason. I dropped it and wrecked the bulb. At the time, $45 or whatever for the light was a major expendature. I was paying the high grocery store price for batteries. Even though a battery lasted me around 3 months, the lamp assembly replacement was enough to retire the light.

I don't know, but I would guess they do it that way to protect the quality of the beam put out by the light, and the reliability of the bulb. True, you could replace only the bulb. But then you would have to touch the glass, making it more prone to failure, and focus might not be guaranteed.

So they force you to buy the whole thing, which forces you to have a certain level of quality and reliability whether you want it or not. I'm not sure I agree with it either, but there we are. I don't think they do it that way just to make more money on relfectors. It was a decision SureFire made about what their customers will put up with. I don't feel it was a bad decision, just an inconvenient one.

About the soft rubber on the Scorpion, my impression with that light is that neither the rubber nor the switch is very durable. It is a good, average-quality light, but things like that keep it from being exceptional.

They do make you pay for it, but you get "exceptional" with SureFire.

Scott

 

[Firebladz]

If you have got the money they are,
If you haven't some of the other lights
come very close for a lot less Bucks

See this is what I am talking about...
Other lights come very close for a lot less bucks... YES exactly their price tags don't come close...
So is surefire really worth the money say compared to an inova that cost a quarter of the price?
Are surefires really worth 3 and 4 times as much as the competitors lights?:candle:

Firebladz.

 

[kaseri]

Course the G2 will most likely act like a gateway drug.

Indeed the G2 is! Thats what I started with and I have gone through so many lights it's crazy. My favorite light is my SF M6

 

[stogiez]

See this is what I am talking about...
Other lights come very close for a lot less bucks... YES exactly their price tags don't come close...
So is surefire really worth the money say compared to an inova that cost a quarter of the price?
Are surefires really worth 3 and 4 times as much as the competitors lights?:candle:

Firebladz.

I guess I'm just going on the fact that I bought a G2 for $30 at my local Bass Pro Shop. I haven't seen any comparable Inovas at that price. So for the $30-$40 range, get something other than a G2. Because with one replacement lamp assembly, it shoots the price up to the $55-$65 range.

 

[xochi]

Surefires are excellent flashlights but there are MUCH better values out there and if you are just getting into flashlights then enjoy the low price 'CRACK' while it will still get you off.

Streamlight, inova, rock river, nuwai are all generally better values than Surefire.

Surefire lights are generally better than all of the above but they aren't at all shy about asking you to pay quite a bit extra for that superiority. I've owned 2 l4's and an A2 and was very happy with each of them but I've also had just as good of an experience owning much less expensive lights.

I was just in a store and was either going to purchase a G2 for 29.99 or a Streamlight propolymer 4aa for 19.99. I went for the propolymer because it's just as tough and likely just as bright but runs on AA's (I've got lots of 123's in the house but I was thinking of longer term power outages ) and was cheaper. The G2 is much smaller though and more pocketable.

You can't go wrong buying a surefire though.

 

[cy]

part of the engineering that makes surefire is the bulb assembly. in particular P60 series bulbs are designed to survive gunfire.

look carefully at how P60 lamp is constructed. notice how ground wire is tack welded to spring, insuring a solid conection.

two layers of springs combined with M2 head suspends bulb assembly and batteries. allowing Surefire to survive shock while mounted as a weapons light.

with G2 what you have is a low cost light with surefire quality beam.

note while replacement costs are high for P60 bulbs. if you are going to have problems with the bulb. probably will be within first few minutes of burntime.

I've never had a surefire bulb fail with exception of two brand new lights burning out. called surefire about problem and they promptly sent a replacement.

that's customer service!

 

[daloosh]

Hey Stogiez, welcome to CPF, and why dontcha stay awhile!

Your story is refreshing, thanks! It's funny, I started with a SL Scorpion as well, and liked it a lot. But instead of a G2, I started also with an E2e, and loved it more than the Scorpion, which rapidly became a backup light, then desk drawer light.

The E2e is small and bright and modular and better than the Scorp in many ways, so I decided I could live with lamp assemblies, instead of pulling out the the little bulb in the Streamlight. And I never looked back.

However, you started with the G2, which of course is the low end for Surefire, and I can see and identify with your frustration over that quite expensive LA! The G2 was one of my last-bought Surefires, and I just wanted to see what it was like. I think it I got it first, I might very well have the same feelings about SF. I appreciate the wakeup call!

On the other hand, SF makes some exceptional lighting instruments, so I hope as you jump into this hobby, keep an open mind and try some more out!

welcome again,
daloosh

 

[Dabbler]

I dropped a 3p a while back and the light went out. Recently I called Surefire and discovered the bad news, lamp assembly required! I got a lot of use out of the light, way beyond the warranty period. So now I'm debating wether to replace the assembly or purchase another light such as Scorpion or G2. I really don't want to spend much more than that since I have better places to invest my meager earnings, like insulin for my diabetic cat

Any suggestions would be appreciated comparing the 3P to others. Should I switch or sink $30 bucks into another assembly?

Thanks much, love reading the tales of adventures in the dark with all this neat hardware.

 

[joema]

stogiez said: "Scorpion - liked it alot....Didn't care for the rubber cover. It "hangs up" on pockets. Wonder how long the cover will last before the bottom cuts out and exposes the switch?...PT Surge - ...Battery carrier came unseated a couple of times...Is this unusual? Loved the beam...there are issues with the Scorp, but I can take off the rubber sleeve. I'd even recommend the Surge over the G2, because of the costs associated with the lamp assembly."

Stogiez, thanks for the nice review.

I've had the Scorpion (incandescent & LED versions), PT Surge, and SL TL-3.

I personally didn't have problems with the Scorpion rubber handle hanging up on clothing, but I see how that's possible.

If you like the Scorpion except for that, consider the SL TL-2, which has similar output/throw but without the rubber handle. Similar but more power is the TL-3.

The PT Surge is very impressive, but overall I wouldn't recommend it. Just too many batteries (8 AAs), battery carrier too difficult, short run time. For people wanting that output, I'd recommend the SF G2, SF 6P, SL TL-2, SL TL-3, SL Scorpion, or Pelican M6. The Surge is dive-rated, however.

 

[rcashel11]

I, too, started off with a SL Scorpion and thought it a great light at the time. Last week I bought my first SureFire, the E2e, and it's my new EDC light. The Scorpion is now in my desk drawer at home.

Got the G2 two days ago. The P60 LA appears less fragile than the bulb for the Scorpion though the higher cost does give me pause. Most likely, I'll give the G2 to my brother like I'd intended to when I bought it.

 

[Robt]

Hey Dudes. I wonder if anybody "out there" can tell me where i can get a "SUREFIRE" flashlight at a cheaper price than what Craig Johnson posts at his LED Museum website.. Yikes, the prices Craig mentions is enuff to scare me away. Is there other flashlights with those LED's or LUXEON bulbs that are at least 50% cheaper than the "Surefire" brand. ??? Maybe I should email Craig Johnson. HEY CRAIG!!! If yer out there and read this, email me please!!!! thanx dudes..

 

[Somy Nex]

Well... depending on which SF light you have settled on, there are quite a few places you can try. The first place I'd look would be the B/S/T section right here (link from the main forum). oldgrandpajack, Sigman come to mind first, but i'm new too and i'm sure there are quite a few more selling SF lights there, almost all for pretty nice prices.

Edit: Also check out the dealers thread, though the lights I see here are more from other brands and less SF. some nice deals though =)

Also take a look at this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/92307 if you are interested in the SF A2 Aviator, although reports have been on & off, it seems that Supreme Co. does listen to feedback and my experience with them has been great. It's a great deal on the A2, although their stocks must be running pretty low by now.

Also, in the Group Buy section, there's a great deal going on SF lights (and possibly more?) from Mike from OpticsHQ, look for details on the thread here.

 

[TonkinWarrior]

I own a handful of Surefires ... along with Inovas, Streamlights, Pelicans, Nuwais, and Mags.

While the non-Surefires are generally good "values," I've yet to find ANY non-SF brand that consistently EXCEDES EXPECTATIONS like Surefires. Oh, the others generally do fine for a while, but then ya start to notice little shortcomings when the "new" wears off.

OTOH, the Surefires never seem to wilt... or reveal another side to their character that makes you wish you'd maybe spent a few more $$ for a light that just plain inspires no-sweat confidence, night after night.

Maybe its just the fact that Surefire consistently UNDERSTATES their beam potency and runtimes. Or the fact that SF's after-sale customer service (with occasional wrinkles) still leads the pack. Or the fact that elite military and LEO units (who really do their homework) always want SF's (when budgets permit).

Cost IS a key Buy-Decision element for most of us. However, INITIAL cost is a very different animal than LONG-TERM/REAL WORLD cost... where the performance-vs.-value equation should also reflect product failure under the stressful and extreme conditions on the Mean Streets and Battlefields. However, I'm assuming here that you buy your lights for tasks beyond dazzling friends with interior beam-shots.

Here's one historic example of this performance-value equation.

When the vaunted Colt M-16 rifle first entered the U.S. military arsenal back in Vietnam, it had many failures in the field (jungles). Failures that cost good lives. Why? Because Pentagon bean-counters decided that they could save about $3.98 per rifle by eliminating the original designer's specified chrome-plated chamber/bore... a little feature which greatly facilitated cleaning... AND preventing jams. The Pentagon's original decision saved Million$. It also got American troops killed and undermined confidence in their main battle weapon. Now, flash-forward a couple decades. With extensive field lessons plus continuous engineering refinements, the M-16 evolved into great/reliable rifle. It's cost went up. too.

The Surefires are like that. You certainly DO pay for a ton of research, engineering, and field-testing refinements with their lights... pricey "development" stuff that their competitors aren't necessarily burdened by. For the average consumer who might only burn his 1 or 2 flashlights a few hours per year -- under nice, domestically-ideal conditions -- it's hard to see the value of SF's twice-the-cost products. However, re-write that consumer's
"field test" script to include a bunch of nasty little Murphy's Law (everything goes wrong) life-or-death scenarios... and he'll soon scream for something a helluva lot better... at ANY cost.

I've been there, seen the elephant, and I don't ever want to have any doubts about my survival gear when the bell rings the next time. I'm not selling my other lights, because they're a lot of fun to play with. And most of 'em make good back-ups... to my Surefires.

 

[Phredd]

Don't buy a Surefire!

I bought an E1 a couple years ago. I loved it so much, I wanted more - I bought an E2. Still not enough - I bought an Aviator. I even tried a U2 not too long ago - awesome! I finally sold the E1 and E2. But, I can't give up the Aviator. I'm happy with just one for now, but I still go back occasionally to see the other lights they have.

Their design and craftsmanship are exceptional. And they're very robust. Not that I've tried, but I doubt I have anything in my house, including my car, that could destroy a Surefire. Besides admiring the flashlight, it's nice to know that it will always work when I need it to.

Phredd