Car/Truck maintainance/tuning recommendations
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Minjin
Flashlight Enthusiast
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tis true. But they cycle them before they even install them. Only way to make sure everything is at spec capacity, etc. Nobody has noticed any increase of range on the new Rav4's.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same thing is done with the higher performance engines. They break it in at the factory. I'd bet that the synthetic oil goes into the engine after this is done. Only takes a couple of WOT pulls to mostly break an engine in.
As for manufacturers not saying much about break-in nowadays. First of all, materials and tolerances have much improved, reducing the need for a break-in time.
Secondly, the industry is alot more consumer friendly now. They know that there are people out there, that if given a choice between a car company that specifies a 5k mile break-in (where consumer should avoid abusing car) and a car company that states no break-in, they'll choose the latter. Consumers are lazy...
Mark
Darell
Flashaholic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This implies that Joe six-pack actually pays ANY attention to what the mfg recommends. I find that simply not to be the case. I just can't imagine Joe basing his decision between a Licoln Navigator and a Ford Excursion on break-in miles.
Your typical driver doesn't care what gasoline octane number is recommended, what oil change intervals are suggested, what tire pressure to use, or the best way to break in an engine. It is a rare automobile purchaser who takes any of those items into consideration when making a purchase.
Uh-oh. Slowly drifting off-topic. Let's see if I can fix it...
Some folks swear that engine oil should be changed cold. They say that given enough time, they extract far more oil from the car than if the oil were warm. My thinking is that warm, recently mixed oil holds all the bad crap in suspension better, and thus the change is more effective. Can anybody think of any valid reason for changing the oil cold (besides that it is more convenient and less messy)?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's my dad. Pretty bad when you have to pass up valet parking because the valet won't know the trick to start the car (happened to me).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmm...hadn't heard that. Maybe your $5000000000000000000 Porches but certainly not "lower high performance" engines like those found in your common every day BMW, Saab, or Audi. What I know is that it would be a logistical nightmare to drive every new BMW 6000 miles before delivery--and who wants to pay $70,000 for a car with 6,000 miles on the clock anyway? I do know this is true with really really high performance cars-- (the kind you and I will probably never drive) BMW uses engine blocks with about 60,000 "civilian" miles on them for their race cars. Get better performance out of them and less likely to crack on them. That's nothing like a Ford Taurus or Dodge Viper...
This is the day (in the auto world) of build it faster, cheaper, and better. Faster, cheaper and better. Always. The faster you build them the cheaper they are to build and the better you can build them fast the happier the customer will be and the more money the company will make so they can build more cars (faster)......
**EDIT**
Whoops! Forgot...
Oil itself doesn't really break down. What breaks down is the cleaners, conditioners, and other stuff they put in it to keep your engine happy. If we could run sealed engines with pure gas that burned perfectly we'd never have to change the oil--the engine components would never get dirty. Letting the engine cool a little makes sense (I'm talking 15-20 minutes here) as it allows the oil up in the engine to work it's way into the pan, but even if you change the oil "hot" you are getting most the gunk out and putting lots of additives and cleansers in. It's kind of like the Octane thing--no reason to wait 4 hours after the engine cools down (IMHO) to change the oil...but if it makes you happy go for it.
Minjin
Flashlight Enthusiast
Minjin
Flashlight Enthusiast
Darell
Flashaholic
Before anybody asks. WOT = Wide Open Throttle. Not to be confused with how I usually write it: WFO.
Light-Headed
Enlightened
Saaby makes some good points about the oil. Although, even if we could run sealed engines with pure gas that burned perfectly, you'd probably still have to change the oil, just not very often. Some of the contaminants that get into the oil are actually small bits from the engine itself. Not a lot, but some.
Now...back on topic....I'm still impressed with the synthetic Mobil 1 oil. I've been reading up on it, and not just the marketing hype either. It looks like it just holds up better than conventional oil in extreme cold and extreme heat conditions and under extreme driving conditions. I don't believe that is all due to marketing hype.
Now...back on topic....I'm still impressed with the synthetic Mobil 1 oil. I've been reading up on it, and not just the marketing hype either. It looks like it just holds up better than conventional oil in extreme cold and extreme heat conditions and under extreme driving conditions. I don't believe that is all due to marketing hype.
papasan
Enlightened
just a note to say that using synthetic oil in an old engine can be a baaaad idea.
following a guy home who had just filled up his 1970s VW van with 100% synthetic. we get about 45 minutes down the road, half way to his house, and suddenly my windshield is clouding up with some wierd gunk. it's an overcast day so i think that it's some sort of odd acid rain or something. after a few seconds i realize there is a brown haze eminating from the back of the VW in front of me. after pulling over and discussing the problem he decided to drive home thinking that the synthetic oil coating would be enough to see him through. a week later this guy said he has found a friend of his to put a brand new porsche engine in his van =). i wished him luck and offered him a ride home.
i would think that if you have a leaky engine that's gunked up with oil deposits then even going with a gradual change would still cause it to leak eventually.
btw, i have a '92 toyota pickup that just got a brand new short block. the head gasket blew but luckily it was a recalled part so they replaced the engine for free =). $370 for new belts and hoses and i got a brand new truck. you may want to check with toyota and see if your head gasket is recalled as well, but i think it was only 91-95 or something like that.
following a guy home who had just filled up his 1970s VW van with 100% synthetic. we get about 45 minutes down the road, half way to his house, and suddenly my windshield is clouding up with some wierd gunk. it's an overcast day so i think that it's some sort of odd acid rain or something. after a few seconds i realize there is a brown haze eminating from the back of the VW in front of me. after pulling over and discussing the problem he decided to drive home thinking that the synthetic oil coating would be enough to see him through. a week later this guy said he has found a friend of his to put a brand new porsche engine in his van =). i wished him luck and offered him a ride home.
i would think that if you have a leaky engine that's gunked up with oil deposits then even going with a gradual change would still cause it to leak eventually.
btw, i have a '92 toyota pickup that just got a brand new short block. the head gasket blew but luckily it was a recalled part so they replaced the engine for free =). $370 for new belts and hoses and i got a brand new truck. you may want to check with toyota and see if your head gasket is recalled as well, but i think it was only 91-95 or something like that.
Hi gang,
I had hoped to avoid this thread as I used to do all my lubes and tune ups but with all the black boxes and Jiffy Lube $29.95, I don't use the floor jack or jack stands any more. I would like to comment on synthetic oils:
My first experience was with some Amsoil synthetic from Amway back in late 70's. At the time I had a VW rRabbit that I had turbo charged. That engine always idled at 900 RPM, rain or shine, hot or cold. I put some of the synthetic oil in and started the car and it idled at 1250 RPM. To my way of thinking, this was a pretty good indication of reduced friction!!!
25 years later, I have a Chevy 5.7L truck and wait until I have about 25000 miles on it; I had been warned years before that introducing synthetic in an angine that hadn't broken in would reduce the wear to the point that it would never really "break in".
I switch to synthetic, (don't remember the brand) and within 1000 miles I have an annoying oil spot on the driveway. It never got real bad and I could never determine if it was coming from the distributor shaft seal or the rear seal. I wasn't about to drop the tranny and replace a rear seal because of a few drops of oil but I sold the truck a few years later and it still liked to leave its mark wherever it was parked; one or two drops of oil.
- Don
I had hoped to avoid this thread as I used to do all my lubes and tune ups but with all the black boxes and Jiffy Lube $29.95, I don't use the floor jack or jack stands any more. I would like to comment on synthetic oils:
My first experience was with some Amsoil synthetic from Amway back in late 70's. At the time I had a VW rRabbit that I had turbo charged. That engine always idled at 900 RPM, rain or shine, hot or cold. I put some of the synthetic oil in and started the car and it idled at 1250 RPM. To my way of thinking, this was a pretty good indication of reduced friction!!!
25 years later, I have a Chevy 5.7L truck and wait until I have about 25000 miles on it; I had been warned years before that introducing synthetic in an angine that hadn't broken in would reduce the wear to the point that it would never really "break in".
I switch to synthetic, (don't remember the brand) and within 1000 miles I have an annoying oil spot on the driveway. It never got real bad and I could never determine if it was coming from the distributor shaft seal or the rear seal. I wasn't about to drop the tranny and replace a rear seal because of a few drops of oil but I sold the truck a few years later and it still liked to leave its mark wherever it was parked; one or two drops of oil.
- Don
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks, I'll get some WIX for my car. I just picked up four OEM Oil filters from a friend at Toyota yesterday ($3.85 each) for my other car.Originally posted by Light-Headed:
Hey axolotls,
I posted up above about my dad being an auto mechanic for over 40 years and he highly recommends WIX filters which is what I'm using now. They have a nice website with an area called "where to buy". You can enter your zip code there and it can guide you to the nearest locations that stock them. Hope that helps.http://www.wixfilters.com/
JackBlades
Enlightened
I'm going out to find me a WIX filter today.
BTW when I drain my oil I remove the plug, then the filter (Chevy SB) and let the old oil hot-drain for about 30 minutes. (time enough for a couple cold *ones)
After I pour it into the recycling container, I examine the bottom of my drain pan for metallic stuff. Yes, I have too much time on my hands, but at least my boredom is used to my truck's benefit!!
*Insert favorite beverage here.
BTW when I drain my oil I remove the plug, then the filter (Chevy SB) and let the old oil hot-drain for about 30 minutes. (time enough for a couple cold *ones)
After I pour it into the recycling container, I examine the bottom of my drain pan for metallic stuff. Yes, I have too much time on my hands, but at least my boredom is used to my truck's benefit!!
*Insert favorite beverage here.
DonL
Enlightened
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is true, but only to a point. The knock sensors will rein in any detonation and adjust accordingly. For high octane use, though, the KS will simply "top out" at whatever the programmed computer setting is. If a motor can reach the pre-programmed max settings, say 34° of total advance at 3000 rpm with 87 octane, then feeding the car 92 won't have any benefits.
The real benefit of using a high octane fuel is when the engine is specifically tuned to use that extra octane. Very high compression, radical cams, that sort of thing.
My GTI is supposed to take "min 89 octane" in stock form. However, since I have a high-performance aftermarket computer chip in the car, the more agressive spark timing curves require a steady diet of 92. In this case, I can certainly feel a slight difference in fuel types.
Some "low octane" vehicles experience combinations of driving conditions that would benefit from using a higher-than-recommended octane level. These are usually extremely hot conditions with heavy engine loads, such as towing large trailers and such. Sometimes the KS system simply can't reel back the timing sufficiently to eliminate the knocking, and higher octane is the best bet in trying to control it.
As for oil:
I've used Mobil 1 for years now. I've run four vehicles to well over 100K miles, and two of them to nearly 200K. All it took was a steady, regular diet of good synthetic oil and filters, usually at 5000-6000 mile intervals.
While "hot rodding" one of the cars, the head was pulled at ~135K. The inside of the head was very clean, and the original cross-hatch machining marks could still be seen in the cylinders.
My current GTI, with 171K miles, had the compression checked last summer. All cylinders registered levels inside of the "new" engine limits in the service manual.
With a couple of other cars, I've used filters more usually seen at your local auto parts store, such as Wix or Delco, but for some reason (gladly now) never Frams.
My VWs have always been given factory Mahle or Mann filters. The anti-drainback and bypass valves are more closely matched to factory specs (you can't even find specs for most filters, especially those that do have anti-drainback valves). They seem put together from better materials at a better level of quality than some filters I've seen. This is my second VW with >170K miles on, and the factory filters have been great.
Light-Headed
Enlightened
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Looks like I'm going to have to contact WIX and ask them to start paying me.
Another thing that sold me on WIX filters was their air filter. My father showed me the piece of crap air filter that those "quick change" places put in my car compared to a WIX air filter. It was like night and day. The "quick change" air filter really was a piece of junk and I'll never let them change my air filter again. I may let them change my oil for me when I don't have the time, but it's so easy to change your own air filter with a quality one without getting too dirty or having to crawl under your vehicle.
Oh..I'm ressurecting this thread. Most the broken images are smileys from the old board software.
We took my sisters Volvo into Jiffy Lube today where they tried to sell us $500 worth of fluids. I let them change the air filter (Which they couldn't do because they don't stock a Volvo air filter) and put in Pennzoil high milage oil. I'm not really sure what High Milage oil is but it sounded good and I figured 1 cycle of it through her 98,000 mile engine couldn't hurt. Plan on doing blend from here on out.
I couldn't believe all the stuff they try to sell you!
I did have a reason to bring this back to life, just can't remember what it is now...
We took my sisters Volvo into Jiffy Lube today where they tried to sell us $500 worth of fluids. I let them change the air filter (Which they couldn't do because they don't stock a Volvo air filter) and put in Pennzoil high milage oil. I'm not really sure what High Milage oil is but it sounded good and I figured 1 cycle of it through her 98,000 mile engine couldn't hurt. Plan on doing blend from here on out.
I couldn't believe all the stuff they try to sell you!
I did have a reason to bring this back to life, just can't remember what it is now...
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