Marduke
Flashaholic
There is also the possibility that your off brand 700mAh's are either not in the best of shape, or never were. It's hard to tell without doing a discharge test though.
Coleman Cree XR-E headlight
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TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
brjones, do you have any AAA Eneloops you could try in it? They're reliable batteries with a nice even voltage output.
I find the Coleman headlamp interesting since it claims such a really high output for a runtime similar to what I estimated for the medium mode of a headlamp I made a few months ago. That medium mode would definitely not be 105 lumens; with its Cree XR-E P4, 22-35 lumens depending on the battery state would be about right. That implies that the change in brightness of the Coleman headlamp in order to last 6 hours would be really large, and makes a representative brightness figure hard to nail down.
Reasons I've seen for "M@glite" include not wanting to clutter the search engines, not liking the way Mag Instruments does business (something to do with a law suit from way back, I gather), or referring to a generic sort or similar style of torch made by someone else. I remember a thread about that and "fauxton" which I found quite informative.
I find the Coleman headlamp interesting since it claims such a really high output for a runtime similar to what I estimated for the medium mode of a headlamp I made a few months ago. That medium mode would definitely not be 105 lumens; with its Cree XR-E P4, 22-35 lumens depending on the battery state would be about right. That implies that the change in brightness of the Coleman headlamp in order to last 6 hours would be really large, and makes a representative brightness figure hard to nail down.
Reasons I've seen for "M@glite" include not wanting to clutter the search engines, not liking the way Mag Instruments does business (something to do with a law suit from way back, I gather), or referring to a generic sort or similar style of torch made by someone else. I remember a thread about that and "fauxton" which I found quite informative.
degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
Got mine last night. Looks like a good supplemental light at good price. Wide reflector=hard to keep up with 2005 outdated lux1 with narrow 6 degree smooth reflector for tasks (though better with colors). I did see a serious drop in output in 45 minutes use. It couldn't hold candle to my Browning Nitro headlamp, especially my modded 3 AA Nitro and 25 ohm pot.
It beats the Nitro on price and availability. The low setting is nice, so I won't need a pot. I might buy a radio shack 1 AA and 2 AA holder, Then Hotglue and solder in a center strap, with 1 aa in front and the 2 aa in rear of strap. This will cost about $4, but should triple runtime with little added weight.
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I don't consider myself a flashaholic. Since, once I replace all my lights with brighter ones, I can happily live without all my current lamps. Plus, its headlamps that I really fancy.
It beats the Nitro on price and availability. The low setting is nice, so I won't need a pot. I might buy a radio shack 1 AA and 2 AA holder, Then Hotglue and solder in a center strap, with 1 aa in front and the 2 aa in rear of strap. This will cost about $4, but should triple runtime with little added weight.
---
I don't consider myself a flashaholic. Since, once I replace all my lights with brighter ones, I can happily live without all my current lamps. Plus, its headlamps that I really fancy.
Picked one up the other night to compare it to my Seoul modded EOS. It's a very nice little headlamp! With fresh hybrids in each, the Coleman is brighter with a very nice beam. Nice hotspot and lots of bright flood. The one I picked up has an awesome tint. Love the UI on this thing ( very fast and easy to change modes ). I'm sure it's not the best out there but for $25.00 it's awesome! Might be my new hunting and night fishing headlamp.
degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
Agree on all points (price, ui, flood, hotsp,), except color-though not as bad as a Lux1 or nichia. But this bin of Cree (I have one 3 AAA and one headlamp as of now) quickly goes a sickly green with lowered batts, compared to a rebel 100. My two rebels (browning phantom rebel 70 and nitro rebel 100), esp. the Nitro rebel 100, make all my Crees, lux3 warm, or Seoul I own, look pale for color rendering. Although, they are way better than a lux 1. Since I am using to paint professionally, this is important. Even at lower light, I can see more detail with a Rebel.
I've yet to head to head compare to a special warm seoul or special Cree bin, with the Rebel 100.
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degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
I got a current meter to supplement my ailing 14 year old meter.
Tested two Coleman lights I own--105 lumen head lamp and 117 lumen 3 AAA $25. Both seem to be driven at about 200 milliamps on new NiMh 1.2 volt x 3 cells (.72 watts). This makes me doubt the lumen rating; at least last December the best Cree's were up to about 100 lumen per watt.
To me converting to a wrist light, (just hack saw head off and velcro/solder onto a 4 AA holder with variable resistor to get it brighter. Though this doesn't make a suitable, typical 3 AA conversion headlamp, since the dim hot spot doesn't compare to a properly setup brinkman lux 1 or garrity lux 1.
I will need to remove internal resistor, I guess. And perhaps add a controller. What a pain.
Tested two Coleman lights I own--105 lumen head lamp and 117 lumen 3 AAA $25. Both seem to be driven at about 200 milliamps on new NiMh 1.2 volt x 3 cells (.72 watts). This makes me doubt the lumen rating; at least last December the best Cree's were up to about 100 lumen per watt.
To me converting to a wrist light, (just hack saw head off and velcro/solder onto a 4 AA holder with variable resistor to get it brighter. Though this doesn't make a suitable, typical 3 AA conversion headlamp, since the dim hot spot doesn't compare to a properly setup brinkman lux 1 or garrity lux 1.
I will need to remove internal resistor, I guess. And perhaps add a controller. What a pain.
Blacklight
Enlightened
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 217
Your drive current is way off. not sure why though. I just can tell you that the drive current on these lights is much higher than 200. Either you have a defective light, or maybe an issue with your meter, since both of them test at 200, i would say its an issue with your meter. We don't do a 117 Lumen light, do you mean you tested it and it came up 117 lumens?
TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
degarb, did you use the 200 mA range on your multimeter? If so, could you try again with the highest current range, 10 A for example?
hopkins
Enlightened
hey Degarb - if you have a few components this simple circuit will
vary the output of the Cree. The only real critical value is to get a transistor
that can handle the current when running full blast, although stacking small
signal transistors up to get the current handling capability of a power trans
is done with ok results during saturation (LED at full blast!).
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/variableoutputcircuit.jpg
..........
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/varicircuit001.jpg
vary the output of the Cree. The only real critical value is to get a transistor
that can handle the current when running full blast, although stacking small
signal transistors up to get the current handling capability of a power trans
is done with ok results during saturation (LED at full blast!).
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/variableoutputcircuit.jpg
..........
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/varicircuit001.jpg
degarb has got me thinking. i am electronics novice. how much voltage can this unit handle, before it is toast? since AA holders can be found easily, i wonder if there are 18650 holders? I have an old laptop pack I'm gonna bust open. This unit expects 4.5V. Rigging a single 18650 starting at 4.2V would be nice, but why stop there. I wonder what happens if you nail it with the 8.4 volts of two 18650's in series... or, more humanely, four AA's 4.8V NiMH or 6V on alkalines. I don't know 'bout removing the internal resistor or what that's for. We just can't leave well enough alone, can we? But seriously, with more capacity (and I think voltage), if reliable it could actually be useful for more than getting your mail and spying on skunks.
On a different note, I obtained a few freebie 9-LED GreatLites. Nine half-watt LED's makes 4.5 watts on paper. Biggish hotspot with very little spill. Even shining two greatlites on the same spot, it was nothing in comparison to the Coleman. And it wasn't just so much the light output, I could just SEE so much more (detail) with the Coleman--I guess it was the tint. It was surprising, I could "see" more, and it was pretty much a world away. The Greatlites were not bad for free, but I didn't think tint made THAT much difference--if that's what it was. Perhaps the best thing about the greatlites was that they came with what appears to be a three-AAA to "C" adapter in series, from all I can gather. I was wondering what evil things I could do with a few of these voltage-boosting adapters in something which took C cells. Of course, then I came back to reality and realized it's prolly easier to just buy a cheapo DX lite which takes self-respecting cells than bob & buff some M@gL!te with a drop-in.
@Torchboy: I don't have Eneloops, but I'm obviously in the market for some AAA rechargeables if you have hot tips where to pick 'em up.
If I were like some of you "modder" guys I'd definitely want to replace those two red LED's with one or two low-output whites and have a true 3-mode lamp.
Degarb, the idea for a wristlight was cool. However I don't think you need to hack it up. Wal-Mart sells velcro strips, some with strong "permanent" adhesive backing (also with no adhesive you could epoxy on). You could make yourself a fuzzy "bracelet" and pop the lamp onto it. Easily popped back on the mount, plenty of clearance. Altho wouldn't the light move a lot on your wrist? Maybe put velcro backing somewhere else, like on a backpack strap?
I did actually remove the screw in the middle of the twisty last night. It enables the plastic cap to pop off which cap moves the actual switch inside. So that screw shouldn't have any bearing on how much resistance the twisty gives (even with cap on and no screw, there's resistance). However, my twisty is now inexplicaply slightly easier to turn. Still somewhat tight but I can turn it without ratcheting the angle now.
Despite being an "is what it is" lite, I've gotten a fair amount of use out of it so far as an "interim" headlamp, and wouldn't feel bad about risking sacrificing it to the mod gods to make it more useful now.
I still think the easy-detach undocumented (if incidental) feature (not a defect) is way cool. I feel bad that Garand's piece separates so easily. Mine definitely does not, and I wouldn't have any worry about the capsule flying off the headpiece while riding. I wouldn't use it for motoring though unless I didn't mind changing batteries every 15-45 minutes, depending on your cells.
A further undocumented feature is that with the capsule/lamp detached, although the shape is cylindrical, it will point whatever direction you want it to (up, level, diagonal). I mean it is balanced, or does not have a weight point which makes it always roll to one position, at least with my NiMH. I don't think that was intentional, but it's quite coincidental. So IMO, better than some d*ck light which supposedly can stand on end in "candle mode" but in reality could not stand in most "real world" scenarios like camping or on bare earth. This thing will point wherever you want, and since it's side-firing, no need to attempt to stand it on end. Or just keep it on its base and point it wherever you want; then it's really going nowhere. Just needs better runtime or regulation. And maybe more JUICE!
Best way to get the battery back off is to push under the compartment lever with your thumb ("shove", not "pry")... if you have a thumbnail.
No evidence of waterproofing on the batt compartment, but would probably do OK in the rain anyway.
I could be going out on a limb here, but it almost seems this thing was originally designed for two or three AA's, owing to the spacing between the AAA cells. Were it not for the bulky switch, there'd be enough room lengthwise. And widthwise, there's enough room for at least two, possibly three AA's. Now that would've been neat, if heavy. Seems bigger than necessary for 3 x AAA. Maybe it was originally a AA design, and redesigned for weight concerns.
I noticed my reflector is off-center from the emitter (or vice versa), and the reflector has the faut-pas flat ring at the back, but none of these seem to mean much in actual use. While not 'white wall hunter perfect', for someone who grew up on incandescents, it's still a trip.
On a different note, I obtained a few freebie 9-LED GreatLites. Nine half-watt LED's makes 4.5 watts on paper. Biggish hotspot with very little spill. Even shining two greatlites on the same spot, it was nothing in comparison to the Coleman. And it wasn't just so much the light output, I could just SEE so much more (detail) with the Coleman--I guess it was the tint. It was surprising, I could "see" more, and it was pretty much a world away. The Greatlites were not bad for free, but I didn't think tint made THAT much difference--if that's what it was. Perhaps the best thing about the greatlites was that they came with what appears to be a three-AAA to "C" adapter in series, from all I can gather. I was wondering what evil things I could do with a few of these voltage-boosting adapters in something which took C cells. Of course, then I came back to reality and realized it's prolly easier to just buy a cheapo DX lite which takes self-respecting cells than bob & buff some M@gL!te with a drop-in.
@Torchboy: I don't have Eneloops, but I'm obviously in the market for some AAA rechargeables if you have hot tips where to pick 'em up.
If I were like some of you "modder" guys I'd definitely want to replace those two red LED's with one or two low-output whites and have a true 3-mode lamp.
Degarb, the idea for a wristlight was cool. However I don't think you need to hack it up. Wal-Mart sells velcro strips, some with strong "permanent" adhesive backing (also with no adhesive you could epoxy on). You could make yourself a fuzzy "bracelet" and pop the lamp onto it. Easily popped back on the mount, plenty of clearance. Altho wouldn't the light move a lot on your wrist? Maybe put velcro backing somewhere else, like on a backpack strap?
I did actually remove the screw in the middle of the twisty last night. It enables the plastic cap to pop off which cap moves the actual switch inside. So that screw shouldn't have any bearing on how much resistance the twisty gives (even with cap on and no screw, there's resistance). However, my twisty is now inexplicaply slightly easier to turn. Still somewhat tight but I can turn it without ratcheting the angle now.
Despite being an "is what it is" lite, I've gotten a fair amount of use out of it so far as an "interim" headlamp, and wouldn't feel bad about risking sacrificing it to the mod gods to make it more useful now.
I still think the easy-detach undocumented (if incidental) feature (not a defect) is way cool. I feel bad that Garand's piece separates so easily. Mine definitely does not, and I wouldn't have any worry about the capsule flying off the headpiece while riding. I wouldn't use it for motoring though unless I didn't mind changing batteries every 15-45 minutes, depending on your cells.
A further undocumented feature is that with the capsule/lamp detached, although the shape is cylindrical, it will point whatever direction you want it to (up, level, diagonal). I mean it is balanced, or does not have a weight point which makes it always roll to one position, at least with my NiMH. I don't think that was intentional, but it's quite coincidental. So IMO, better than some d*ck light which supposedly can stand on end in "candle mode" but in reality could not stand in most "real world" scenarios like camping or on bare earth. This thing will point wherever you want, and since it's side-firing, no need to attempt to stand it on end. Or just keep it on its base and point it wherever you want; then it's really going nowhere. Just needs better runtime or regulation. And maybe more JUICE!
Best way to get the battery back off is to push under the compartment lever with your thumb ("shove", not "pry")... if you have a thumbnail.
No evidence of waterproofing on the batt compartment, but would probably do OK in the rain anyway.
I could be going out on a limb here, but it almost seems this thing was originally designed for two or three AA's, owing to the spacing between the AAA cells. Were it not for the bulky switch, there'd be enough room lengthwise. And widthwise, there's enough room for at least two, possibly three AA's. Now that would've been neat, if heavy. Seems bigger than necessary for 3 x AAA. Maybe it was originally a AA design, and redesigned for weight concerns.
I noticed my reflector is off-center from the emitter (or vice versa), and the reflector has the faut-pas flat ring at the back, but none of these seem to mean much in actual use. While not 'white wall hunter perfect', for someone who grew up on incandescents, it's still a trip.
TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
unless you incorporate a suitable driver. A resistor could do the job if nothing better was available.If they are the holders I'm thinking of they're bigger than a C cell.
My hottest tip is at a shop that sell 'em cheap. You might like to mention where you are, and whether you want to buy online or at a local brick-'n'-mortar, or just look up a "Where do I buy Eneloops?" thread. They're worth looking for. :twothumbs
degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
"I just can tell you that the drive current..."? You can just tell? Did you test with a multimeter?
No, just bought a brand new meter for $30 at RS. And still, about 200 milliamp draw from 3 cells on all three coleman lights, give or take a few milliamps.
I will say, after converting power supplies, driving these new coleman's (xr-e and xr-x version) at 300 to 400 milliamps, they really light up. The xr-c can light up a tree from hundreds of feet too. On a wall, that thrower makes all the other lights seem on low.
adirondackdestroyer
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 2,018
I have both the Coleman 3AAA headlamp and the Coleman 2AA Flashlight sold at Walmart, and there is no way they are only running at 200MA.
The headlamp is over 100 lumens out the front with fresh cells, and the flashlight is around 95 lumens out the front. When you factor in light loss from the reflector, that means the LED must be putting out at least 125 lumens or more. This would mean that even with the most efficient (Q5/R2) the LED would need over 350MA to be this bright. I also highly doubt Coleman is using high bin crees as they are more expensive and the average customer doesn't even understand.
I'm only guessing, but I would say they are running at around 450MA or more.
The headlamp is over 100 lumens out the front with fresh cells, and the flashlight is around 95 lumens out the front. When you factor in light loss from the reflector, that means the LED must be putting out at least 125 lumens or more. This would mean that even with the most efficient (Q5/R2) the LED would need over 350MA to be this bright. I also highly doubt Coleman is using high bin crees as they are more expensive and the average customer doesn't even understand.
I'm only guessing, but I would say they are running at around 450MA or more.
TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Perhaps there's a production variation here, but there are other possibilities too. Is it possible for you to try shorting the multimeter leads while reading the current, so the resistance of the ammeter is taken out of the circuit? Does the light get brighter? Have you tried using one of your meters to measure the resistance of the other when it's in ammeter mode?
I would hope not. 200 mega-amps would melt it instantly.
"Is it possible for you to try shorting the multimeter leads while reading the current, so the resistance of the ammeter is taken out of the circuit?"
Could you elaborate on this a little? I haven't heard of the trick before.
Could you elaborate on this a little? I haven't heard of the trick before.
TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm not sure how you're taking the reading, so it may not even be possible. My idea is that if your ammeter has a high resistance on the range you're using then shorting the ammeter out of the circuit by touching the probes to each other will remove its resistance from your circuit. If the current flowing in the circuit was being limited by that resistance the LED would get brighter.
I found a few weeks ago that that in their 200 mA ranges my three multimeters vary from about 1 ohm to about 5 ohms (!), which makes accurate current measurements hard with at least two of them in that range.
I found a few weeks ago that that in their 200 mA ranges my three multimeters vary from about 1 ohm to about 5 ohms (!), which makes accurate current measurements hard with at least two of them in that range.
degarb
Flashlight Enthusiast
Well, who else is going to try a multi meter reading and post their current? I will play another day/night.
Another thought, these are made in China, they cheat on everything. They might have a big bin, a pot porri, of resistors.
All three of my lights were 3 AAA version so I could soup them up a tad--one headlamp, one 3 AAA flashlight, and one xr-c. I didn't think the hotspot on either xr-e's tolerably bright enough, so I hacked a more aggressive power source for them. The $20 xr-c (almost 30 lumen less rating than the xr-e) is in a whole new class for led hotspot brightness (As in, are my other lights turned on high?), far beyond my Energizer Hardcase Cree 2 AA. While the modified xr-e, makes you think someone turned on a 40 watt bulb in the room behind you, it still has a fraction of the xr-c hotspot and throw,
Another thought, these are made in China, they cheat on everything. They might have a big bin, a pot porri, of resistors.
All three of my lights were 3 AAA version so I could soup them up a tad--one headlamp, one 3 AAA flashlight, and one xr-c. I didn't think the hotspot on either xr-e's tolerably bright enough, so I hacked a more aggressive power source for them. The $20 xr-c (almost 30 lumen less rating than the xr-e) is in a whole new class for led hotspot brightness (As in, are my other lights turned on high?), far beyond my Energizer Hardcase Cree 2 AA. While the modified xr-e, makes you think someone turned on a 40 watt bulb in the room behind you, it still has a fraction of the xr-c hotspot and throw,
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My batteries aren't exactly freshly charged, but they are totaling 3.87 volts. In high, my lamp is pulling 310 mA from the cells. On low 60-70 milliamps. I didn't bother to try the red leds.
A little embarresed to admit it, but these are with RadioShack 700 mAh nimh.
Of course, this doesn't mean that is what the led is receiving, there is some sort of buck circuit isn't there?
A little embarresed to admit it, but these are with RadioShack 700 mAh nimh.
Of course, this doesn't mean that is what the led is receiving, there is some sort of buck circuit isn't there?
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TorchBoy
Flashlight Enthusiast
With just three AAA cells there isn't much spare voltage to buck.
I dunno about that. Fresh alk's should be about 1.6 volts. Yes, I know it will sag some under load, but we are only talking less than a third of an amp, and I can't imagine the led voltage much over 3 ~ 3.2 at the most. (at that current). Something is controlling the current.
You can see a pretty large resistor inside, but one resistor alone wouldn't control both high and low of course. I am kind of surprised to see a metal film type instead of smd. Well maybe it is just a "dumb" circuit.
You can see a pretty large resistor inside, but one resistor alone wouldn't control both high and low of course. I am kind of surprised to see a metal film type instead of smd. Well maybe it is just a "dumb" circuit.
