Convoy Lights: Option Comparison Tables and Images

[Phlogiston]

A new Convoy S2+ tidbit: apparently, it uses 4.5kHz PWM, which is a decently high frequency that most people won't notice. That's from a BLF post by ToyKeeper, who is a well-respected firmware programmer and presumably has first hand knowledge.

There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.

Cool, I hadn't heard about that yet. Where did you find out?

Do you know if there's any other differences between the different colour models than the button type?

As far as I know, the only difference is the metal button versus the rubber switch boot. I wouldn't mind seeing the black and grey S2+ models offered with the metal button as well.

Note that the metal button may not be as water-resistant as the rubber switch boot (BLF post by J-Dub74). The metal cap has to slide in a tube to operate the switch, which means that there's a sliding interface where water could get through, unless there's a rubber seal underneath. In contrast, a rubber boot simply deforms without ever allowing an entry route for water.

I'm tempted to take one of my S2+ Red tailcaps apart now, to see if there is a rubber seal under the metal cap, but it's not going to happen until my spare gets here. Any takers in the meantime?

Excellent post on the comparison table.

Contemplating to get some S2+ myself and the information you provided is awesome and very helpful to chose right.
Thanks a lot Phlogiston! :twothumbs

Thank you both, and everyone who's expressed support for this thread :thumbsup:

 

[akhyar]

A new Convoy S2+ tidbit: apparently, it uses 4.5kHz PWM, which is a decently high frequency that most people won't notice. That's from a BLF post by ToyKeeper, who is a well-respected firmware programmer and presumably has first hand knowledge.



Cool, I hadn't heard about that yet. Where did you find

The picture of the green S2+ is already posted at BLF

 

[Phlogiston]

The picture of the green S2+ is already posted at BLF

Thank you - my Google-Fu was failing me. The BLF search box found it, though:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/42401

In the same thread, there's also a post saying that there'll be a UV S2+ as well, and it's going to be a proper 365nm LED to boot.

WARNING: If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).

 

[D6859]

Note that the metal button may not be as water-resistant as the rubber switch boot (BLF post by J-Dub74). The metal cap has to slide in a tube to operate the switch, which means that there's a sliding interface where water could get through, unless there's a rubber seal underneath. In contrast, a rubber boot simply deforms without ever allowing an entry route for water.

I thought so too.

I got my S2+ today. Three instant notions: 1) No green rubber boot! 2) The lanyard has no buckles! 3) I don't like the blueish-grey colour. On the other hand, the light seem solid, the tint is great, it's smaller than TN12 and the output enough for most tasks. I'd say it's great for EDC! And when considering the price point... I think I have to order the red one too.

 

[Phlogiston]

Just noticed that the new Convoy S2+ UV (ultraviolet) light has appeared on Convoy's AliExpress store.

As previously stated, it has a 365nm LED. I found a page on the Nichia website listing various UV LEDs, and I think (but can't be certain) that this is the datasheet for the one in the Convoy light:

http://www.nichia.co.jp/specification/products/led/NCSU276A-E.pdf

WARNING: if you buy one of these, you must take proper UV safety precautions. Among other things:

• Keep away from children.
• Avoid direct exposure to the UV light, including reflections. This applies both to your eyes and those of other people.
• UV-blocking eye protection is mandatory for everyone present while a UV light emitter is in use.

Failure to take suitable safety precautions when using UV light emitters can lead to eye problems such as cataracts, retinal damage and permanent blindness.

UV light can also cause skin cancer. Be at least as cautious about exposing your skin to it as you would be with strong sunlight.

Please check Google for more information on UV safety.

 

[Phlogiston]

I should really stick a protected cell in one of my Convoy lights, run it right down and see what happens

Finally got round to trying it with a protected NCR18650BE cell in my T4-7A (very warm white) 7135*4 S2+ Red.

I was running it in medium mode when the low voltage warning flash started. On my sample, the flash is more like 1Hz than the rated 2Hz, but it's still a perfectly clear indication. I measured the cell voltage at 2.93V, so I'd estimate that the warning flash kicked in at about 2.9V, which matches the manufacturer's rating of 2.9V to 3.1V. I also noticed that the light stepped down from medium to low mode when it started flashing.

I put the cell back in, and the light re-entered medium mode when I turned it back on. I immediately set it manually to low mode using the tail switch, and it ran for at least another 20 minutes before it started flashing again. At that point, the cell was hovering around 2.9V.

I put the cell back in again, turned the light on and it immediately started flashing in low mode. I let it run for another hour, after which the cell was at 2.67V. The light was down to 5 or 10 lumens at that point, rather than the usual 20+ lumens, but still enough to find another light or carefully navigate your way out of trouble. The flashing would be annoying under those circumstances, but you could do it nonetheless.

After a further hour, the light was still flashing at a moonlight level - useless to me, but I know many people here on CPF could still use it at that level in an emergency. The cell voltage was 2.56V at that stage.

The light subsequently flashed for another 20 minutes, steadily dimming towards a firefly level, until the cell's protection circuit finally tripped out at what I presume to be 2.5V.

In total, the light lasted for 2h 40m after the low voltage warning first started flashing.

Conclusions:

• The S2+ won't shut down prematurely and leave you in the dark. The warning flash at 2.9V will notify you well in advance that power is low, and the light will still be producing something like a firefly level of output even at 2.5V.
  
  Please note that this will vary wildly depending on the ambient conditions, the cell you use and even from one S2+ sample to the next. In particular, this test was conducted at room temperature.
  
  Low temperatures will severely reduce the cell's ability to keep the light going at low voltage. You might only get a few minutes under those circumstances.
  
  
• If there's a risk that the light could be switched on for a long time by accident - in your backpack, for example - then I strongly recommend using a protected cell and / or locking the light out (unscrewing the tailcap by half a turn).
  
  Otherwise, the S2+ will drain your cell completely dry.

P.S.

I've also updated post 12 with thoughts on more accessories I've tried with my Convoy S2+ lights.

Update: I've now seen the same light running at 2.4V, using a different cell whose protection circuit hadn't quite triggered yet. Even at that level, the light was still flashing very faintly.

 

[Grijon]

Another excellent post with great information; thank you, Phlogiston!

 

[KeepingItLight]

Agreed. Learning how a Li-ion flashlight behaves in the face of over-discharge is mandatory for me.

Frankly, I wish all Li-ion flashlights had low-voltage cutoff circuits that completely turned them off when their batteries got too low.

Edit: Forgot to say that I started a thread about this!

Over-discharge of Li-ion – A Request for Flashlight Reviewers

 

[RetroTechie]

If there were 1 thing I could have different about Convoy lights (that is: sold as complete lights), it's drivers with a lower low, and a more modest medium setting as well.
For example a 1-2% low (vs. 5 or 10%) and a ~15 to 20% medium (vs. 30 or 40%). That is especially true for higher-current drivers as with a %, the lower modes move up as well. A 1.0 or 1.4A driver with 1%-20%-100% modes (and no flashy modes!!) would be damn near perfect for me. And I think a whole lot of other people, too. Personally I have a strong preference for neutral or even warm white LEDs over cool white, but that's easy to do if host, driver, and LED boards are sold separately.

Great to hear that red S2+ can be used with 18350's, too. Nice & short, and (compared with 16340) there's much better battery options in 18350 size.

There's a green S2+ version in the pipeline as well.

Nice... may I suggest gold and/or purple as next options?

Only got a single Convoy myself so far (S2, self-assembled from host + driver + LED board), but it's one of my most lights due to its combo of replacement cost (read: not being too scared to damage it or lend it to someone), built-to-taste, price/quality ratio and performance. Recommended this brand several times already to newbies on this forum.

 

[Phlogiston]

Another excellent post with great information; thank you, Phlogiston!

Agreed.

Thank you

Learning how a Li-ion flashlight behaves in the face of over-discharge is mandatory for me.

Frankly, I wish all Li-ion flashlights had low-voltage cutoff circuits that completely turned them off when their batteries got too low.

If a light had a built-in low voltage cutoff, I'd want it to be set to a very low level: 2.6V, for example, to allow a tolerance band above the 2.5V minimum that seems to have become a de-facto standard among new Li-Ion cells lately.

That would give me the option of running a cell right down in an emergency, if I had no other choice. I find myself imagining a nightmare scenario where I'm changing over to my last backup light or spare cell, drop it and can't find it again, so I have to carry on with whatever a near-depleted cell can give me.

I like the way the S2+ handles a low voltage condition by giving the user plenty of warning, in a way which is annoying and persistent, but doesn't render the light totally unusable. It's also compatible with protected cells, unlike some other lights, so you effectively get the choice of whether to add a low voltage cutoff or not.

On a related note, I consider it a significant design defect when a light can't use protected cells. Even lumen blasters should be able to run on protected cells, if only in lower modes.

If there were 1 thing I could have different about Convoy lights (that is: sold as complete lights), it's drivers with a lower low, and a more modest medium setting as well.

It occurs to me that the Convoy driver has two mode groups, one with 3 modes and one with 5. If I were in charge at Convoy, I'd do this:

Group 1: Strobe, SOS, 1Hz flash.

Group 2: 1%, 5%, 15%, 40%, 100%.

The 1% mode would be virtually useless to me, but the light has mode memory, so I'd just leave it in 5% mode every time (as I do anyway) and it wouldn't be a problem.

 

[KeepingItLight]

If a light had a built-in low voltage cutoff, I'd want it to be set to a very low level: 2.6V, for example, to allow a tolerance band above the 2.5V minimum that seems to have become a de-facto standard among new Li-Ion cells lately.

That would give me the option of running a cell right down in an emergency, if I had no other choice. I find myself imagining a nightmare scenario where I'm changing over to my last backup light or spare cell, drop it and can't find it again, so I have to carry on with whatever a near-depleted cell can give me.

I have mixed feelings about this. I understand your point, though. For someone like you, who knows to toss a battery that becomes severely over-discharged, what you describe is good. The Convoy S2+ gives you the choice to ruin a battery in an emergency.

The downside is that most purchasers of Li-ion batteries are not as careful or knowledgeable as you. More significantly, even experts make mistakes.

One highly experienced CPF member, for instance, who proudly switched to unprotected batteries a couple of years ago, recently got into trouble. His ZebraLight SC62w was in a jacket pocket in the back seat of his car. The light was accidentally activated when he briefly sat on the jacket, and since he moved to the front seat, he never noticed that the light was on. He found out the next day, by which time the battery was depleted. The only thing that prevented an over-discharge was the low-voltage cutoff circuit built into the SC62w. It turned off his flashlight for him. If he had been using a light that did not have a cutoff, he surely would have over-discharged his unprotected cell.

Now multiply by 2 billion people in the developed countries of the world. Lots of them own Li-ion flashlights. Lots of them will have similar accidents.

How real is the hypothetical case you make out? For you, probably not very real at all. You carry backup flashlights, and perhaps batteries, as well. You would have to be in a real SHTF situation before all your light was gone.

What about the same 2 billion people I cited earlier? For them, it's a different story. I bet there are many of them who would blithely let their battery run low when they had no backup at all!

So, like I said, I have mixed feelings.

 

[RetroTechie]

"Optimize for the most common case" = protect battery against dumb or careless behavior from users. Which goes nicely with "err on the safe side".

Personally I think a clear warning (flashing) -> step down to a really low mode (so light can still be used somewhat) -> switch off when battery is further discharged to a point where battery damage may occur.

I'd argue about what is sensible cut-off points (or how to measure state of charge). Not about whether it's sensible to have those cut-offs.

 

[Danielsan]

I love the low voltage warning at 3.0V ! I always search fpr such lights because i can give those to my father as well and the blinking once the light hits 3.0V is perfect. We can always contruct wild emergency situations but you can always use a new battery or use a fully loaded cell every day. 2.5V would be much to low, i heard its bad for the cell when you discharge them so much.

 

[Phlogiston]

I think we're all actually closer to agreement than it seems. I'm an engineer, safeguarding the unsuspecting user is part of the job.

I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V. I handle the lack of a low voltage cutoff by using a protected cell.

I'd be fine with a built-in low voltage cutoff as well, I just want it to be set to a very low level. I suggested 2.6V in my previous post, because most currently available protected cells seem to trip at 2.5V, which would be 2.6V ± 0.1V, allowing Convoy the same tolerance as they're already using for the existing low voltage warning.

In common with most Li-Ion specific flashlights, the Convoy S2+ barely produces any light at 2.5V, so a low voltage cutoff at 2.6V would safeguard people using unprotected cells whilst still leaving me something like 90% of the current emergency rundown capability. That's a tradeoff I'd be happy to make.

What I don't want is a light that triggers a low-voltage warning at 3.2V and then shuts down completely at 3.0V, for example, despite the cell still being capable of two more hours in low mode without compromising safety.

How real is the hypothetical case you make out? For you, probably not very real at all. You carry backup flashlights, and perhaps batteries, as well. You would have to be in a real SHTF situation before all your light was gone.

I am Phlogiston, Archpriest of Murphy! Tremble before me and my Staff of Chaos!

Yes, that really is what I call my blind person's cane. You would not believe the cascading accidents I can set in motion

Normally, I'm kitted out for the zombie cat flu asteroid Apocalypse, but I have been known to jump into a friend's car to go for a walk somewhere on a nice summer evening with no jacket and no backpack. In that sort of scenario, I'll be carrying two lights and no spare cells.

The first light I'll use with gay abandon until I run out of power, the second one I'll be a lot more circumspect with. So far, so good.

Now, in the old days when I was driving, I had to change plenty of tyres at the side of the road in less than ideal conditions. Think about how often people drop their keys - or their phones - down a storm drain, then imagine that tyre change on the way back home, in the dark, with the backup light. Plop. Oops.

Not desperately likely, but neither is over-discharging a Li-Ion cell (for me, at least). I consider the ability to run a cell right down to be just as valuable to me as the low-voltage cutoff would be. That's especially true when I add up all the "not desperately likely" scenarios I can think of and arrive at "actually, something like that is going to happen to me sooner or later."

In short, emergency rundown capability and low-voltage cutoff both represent extra lines of defence against different scenarios. I just don't want to completely sacrifice one for the other.

2.5V would be much to low, i heard its bad for the cell when you discharge them so much.

2.5V isn't actually that bad, as long as you recharge the cell ASAP. It will shorten the service life of the cell, though, so it wears out sooner. You can lose several normal charge-discharge cycles for every deep discharge. That's why I only do it when I have a good reason (like investigating how one of my lights handles it).

Reputable manufacturers like Panasonic rate their cell capacities by discharging to 2.5V. They wouldn't get away with that if it weren't safe to do so, so I'm comfortable with it on that basis.

Leaving a cell lying around for several days at 2.5V is a bad idea, however. If I ever come across one of my cells at 2.5V and I don't know how long it's been in that state, it'll be going straight to recycling.

 

[Phlogiston]

Just noticed that the Convoy S2+ Green is now available from the manufacturer's store (Shenzhen Convoy Electronics) on AliExpress.

There's also a new L2 variant with an XPL HI LED in it

 

[Rob420]

Just ordered the newest S2+ grey.
According to Simon's note on Shenzhen Convoy Electronics "the new version S2+ gray, the color of tailcap is black and a little change with the hole in the tail."
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm273/rcheply/S2 Grey 2.jpg
I hope to receive the much more attractive black tailcap rather then the previous florescent green. And the double hole will work perfectly with a lanyard which I prefer to use. The single hole causes the lanyard to interfere with a stable tail-stand. Subtle, but noticeable improvements.

 

[Phlogiston]

GearBest are running a special deal on the Convoy S2+ UV light for USD $19.10. That gets it in under the customs limit for the UK (GBP £15, currently about USD $20.50) and various EU countries (up to EUR €22, currently about USD $23.50).

Posted as a "Good Deals" thread here.

WARNING: If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).

 

[gyzmo2002]

GearBest are running a special deal on the Convoy S2+ UV light for USD $19.10. That gets it in under the customs limit for the UK (GBP £15, currently about USD $20.50) and various EU countries (up to EUR €22, currently about USD $23.50).

Posted as a "Good Deals" thread here.

WARNING: If you're interested in getting a UV light, you will need to take very careful safety measures (read this and check Google as well).

I watched it last week but I hesitated. But at this price, I think it's a good buy. Just ordered my first Convoy. Now, I want a L6 XP-L HI. Thank you Phlogiston.🙂

 

[Rob420]

Phlogiston says "I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V" Can someone tell me what that low voltage warning at 3.0V looks like. Also does the light close down below 2.5V ? I'm using hybrid Panasonic NCR18650 batteries which should be relatively safe but are unprotected. Also, does the same apply to my Convoy C8 ? Thanks in advance for any info in this regard.

 

[Phlogiston]

Phlogiston says "I like the way that the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V" Can someone tell me what that low voltage warning at 3.0V looks like. Also does the light close down below 2.5V ? I'm using hybrid Panasonic NCR18650 batteries which should be relatively safe but are unprotected. Also, does the same apply to my Convoy C8 ? Thanks in advance for any info in this regard.

The low voltage warning is a steady flash at 1 or 2 Hz, ie. one or two flashes every second. The light keeps doing that until you change the cell or run out of power. It also steps down to its lowest output mode. As long as you don't leave the light unattended, you can't miss it.

I don't know what happens below 2.5V, because I used a protected cell for the test, and it tripped out at 2.5V. I wouldn't do that test with an unprotected cell, just in case I made a mistake and let it run too far.

For safety's sake, assume that the light does not cut off at all, not even below 2.5V.

You'll find an older post I wrote here with everything I know about the Convoy S2+ in low voltage operation.

I don't have a Convoy C8, but any Convoy light using the same driver should have the same behaviour. There's a list of all the Convoy lights I know about with that driver in the first post of this thread (check the section marked Applicability), and the C8 is one of them.

I watched it last week but I hesitated. But at this price, I think it's a good buy. Just ordered my first Convoy. Now, I want a L6 XP-L HI. Thank you Phlogiston.��

You're very welcome