Dangerous explosion with 2 CR123A primary

[Fulaeetoy]

Good thing everyone is ok. That damage is pretty wicked.

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~ Sent from iOS/Android device

 

[snakyjake]

It was the blue rechargeable batteries that exploded? If yes.... Then this is making sense, as two primaries shouldn't be much risk if used normally. The two rechargeables probably didn't have protection. Probably made cheap and not from a reputable company. Two lithium-ion batteries connected together is EXTREMELY risky (unless you monitor your batteries). Over discharge/charge of lithium-ion batteries are guaranteed to cause cell damage.

 

[GunnarGG]

It was the blue rechargeable batteries that exploded?

No. As I understand it the guy had a charger and some blue rechargeable cells at home but in the flashlight there were a pair of 4Sevens primary CR123 batteries.
Looking at the third pic in the first post it also looks like a 4Sevens primary CR123.
These are wrapped together 2 in a row so you can just slide them in as a pack.
I have seen other brands claiming that packs like these contains batteries from the same batch and therefor should be matched to work together. I don't know if that goes for 4sevens also.
Even if it is easy to use these packs maybe it's better to unwrap them and test each battery before use?

Yes , 13 months is a long time without testing , and can allow the two cells to become un-balanced . One cell usually drains more than the other in use .

For emergency use - I prefer single cell lights - which avoid this problem .

I have, and I think many other also have, a light in the car with 2xcr123 cells that gets very little use. The batteries can last for a year or two.
If the cells are checked and balanced when I put them (new) in the light maybe it's wise to measure them once in a while to make sure they keep there balance?
Is there any difference between using a flashlight for lets say 60 min during a week versus 5 min a month during a year?
Maybe it's good to check the balance even during more intense use?
After reading other threads also now I will not drain the batteries completely in 2-cell lights.
When I get the first sign of the batteries getting weak I will replace them and finish the old one in a 1-cell light.


I have a multimeter but today I'm ordering a ZTS battery tester.

 

[ecrbattery]

Wow, glad everyone is OK. The damage is bad but it could have been a lot worse.

The light maybe 13 months old but the batteries could be a lot older than that.
Are these 2x CR123A have date stamp on them? Not sure if you could read them now after the fire.

You got to love how some vendor claim "matching" battery set without detailing how the matching was done. Do they actually measure the voltage and internal resistance or just assume that the batteries are matched because they came from the same batch?

From my experience, the batteries IR does vary even when they are from the same batch. Even two perfectly matched cells will become unbalance from the heat generated by the light. You should check the batteries voltage once in a while. It is also a good ideal to mark and rotate the cells position. This need to be done often if you run your high-power light continuously. All this is hard to do when both cells are in a "matching" wrap


Base on another member's previous "Scary problem with 4Sevens CR123", here is my theory on what happen:

The cell that sat closest to the head got empty first because of the heat. When the light keep on pulling current through the second cell, it reverse charged the empty cell. The empty cell heated up and vented some flamable gas directly into the warm/hot pill. When the light got really hot, the gas ignited. Now the second cell also got heat up very quickly and join the firery party.


I hope everyone stay safe and check the battery in your multi-cell light often. If the cell read a negative voltage, chuck it and run the other way I really wish "NewBie" would come out of retirement and do some more dissecting of all these new CR123A cells.

 

[CampingMaster]

I would like to thank GunnarGG for his post.

 

[jonnyfgroove]

It was the blue rechargeable batteries that exploded? If yes.... Then this is making sense, as two primaries shouldn't be much risk if used normally. The two rechargeables probably didn't have protection. Probably made cheap and not from a reputable company. Two lithium-ion batteries connected together is EXTREMELY risky (unless you monitor your batteries). Over discharge/charge of lithium-ion batteries are guaranteed to cause cell damage.

Wow dude, it is clearly stated in the first post that the original primary 123 cells that came in the package with the flashlight were the ones that went poof.

 

[snakyjake]

Wow dude, it is clearly stated in the first post that the original primary 123 cells that came in the package with the flashlight were the ones that went poof.

Wow Dude...did you not notice he edited the first post? Besides, there is no reason not to be crystal clear on what was used because I've never heard problems with primaries, only lithium ion. This is the first I've heard of primaries causing problems. So this news is a big game changer on accessing safety vs. risk....once we get all the facts verified.

 

[CampingMaster]

Wow Dude...did you not notice he edited the first post?

The edition was only for small orthographic erros NOT TO CHANGE THE POST.

You should read the post # 19 and 23, you have a real difficulty to read and understand english.

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[Kestrel]

He showed me also all the ten batteries that I bought for him (4Sevens batteries).
To my great astonishment the batteries inside his Regular Quark 123² XP-G R5 were the original primary 4Sevens CR123A included with the flashlight...

The remaining CR123 primaries need to be checked via a ZTS tester. This will be very important information for CPF members.

It is fortunate (from a forensic perspective) that there remains a significant quantity (10) of these cells hopefully from the same production lot (?) that can be analyzed for remaining capacity. If any of the remaining cells have a significantly lower capacity, this will be very revealing for the purposes of this thread.

I'm surprised that some here are surprised that multiple CR123 primaries in series can in rare situations be dangerous - we get threads on this topic regularly.

None of my CR123 lights have housed multiple primaries for a few years now.

 

[CampingMaster]

The remaining CR123 primaries need to be checked via a ZTS tester. This will be very important information for CPF members.

It is fortunate (from a forensic perspective) that there remains a significant quantity (10) of these cells hopefully from the same production lot (?) that can be analyzed for remaining capacity. If any of the remaining cells have a significantly lower capacity, this will be very revealing for the purposes of this thread.

I'm surprised that some here are surprised that multiple CR123 primaries in series can in rare situations be dangerous - we get threads on this topic regularly.

None of my CR123 lights have housed multiple primaries for a few years now.

Thank you very much for your comment!

 

[snakyjake]

I have read the posts, and some of us are trying to verify (post 13,16,17). Like I said, what happened isn't something most of us are aware of. We mostly hear about these events with lithium-ion...hence the desire for clarification.

 

[CampingMaster]

I have read the posts, and some of us are trying to verify (post 13,16,17). Like I said, what happened isn't something most of us are aware of. We mostly hear about these events with lithium-ion...hence the desire for clarification.

In these post 13, 16 and 17 instead of reading carefully and trying to understand all the very good information I gave all these people read to fast and try to speculate...

Many others understands very well what happens.

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[snakyjake]

Was Claude (and others you may have gifted) familiar with the risks and safe handling methods of lithium batteries?

 

[CampingMaster]

Was Claude (and others you may have gifted) familiar with the risks and safe handling methods of lithium batteries?

Never I saw in my documentation from Fenix and 4Sevens advices on the use of Lithium Primary or Rechargeable for their flashlights. The instruction booklet is few pages with minimum info.

I only heard of problems charging Rechargeable RCR123A on this forum.

If there is a PDF somewhere on «the risks and safe handling methods of lithium batteries» give me the link. Anyway my friend did the same thing I would do : use his flashlight with approved batteries.

When you buy a flashlight there is no instructions to check with a voltmeter if a batterie Primary or Rechargeable is lower than the other to avoid a dangerous explosion...

All the flashlights I ordered in the last couple of years is because friends asked me to buy one for them because they were impressed of the power of the new LED technologie I had in my holster. Any of these flashlights that I bought was a gift but sold at the same price I paid them.

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[snakyjake]

If there is a PDF somewhere on «the risks and safe handling methods of lithium batteries» give me the link.

Since you slammed me for not reading (or wanting verification), I'll do the same by suggesting you learn how to use the search feature. Many threads have discussed the dangers and safe responsible handling. Plenty on primaries too.

If there are others that have received your generous flashlight gifts (and if you haven't already done so), make sure they are informed and trained.

When you buy a flashlight there is no instructions

I agree there should be a legal warning on lithium, batteries, cell phones, laptops, etc. Then maybe, just maybe, we would be better informed of the risks and safety procedures.

Even after reading tons of posts, and trying to piece them together between people saying something that "we have a better chance of breathing asbestos than having a battery explosion" or "safe lithium-ion battery chemistry"....it is somewhat difficult to really know what is really safe. I have to rely on what every else says and figure out who actually knows what they are talking about.

Posts like these make me think of going NiMH.

 

[CampingMaster]

Since you slammed me for not reading (or wanting verification), Hey hey hey !!!

I'll do the same by suggesting you learn how to use the search feature. Many threads have discussed the dangers and safe responsible handling. Plenty on primaries too. Many threads is not one PDF, sorry I read them all.

If there are others that have received your generous flashlight gifts (and if you haven't already done so), make sure they are informed and trained. Never myself was informed and trained by Fenix nor 4Sevens nor will be the customers/friends who ask me to buy the latest technologie for them. What happens to my friend might happens to any well trained or informed user because it happens in few seconds.
And let me tell you something :You still don't read my friend... I said to you and I quote "Any of these flashlights that I bought was a gift but sold at the same price I paid them".

Ultimate CampingMaster

 

[snakyjake]

Read this sticky:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?124776-123-Primary-Lithium-cell-info-testing-links

It is a bit difficult to read your messages with the grammar, communication style, and punctuation errors. I don't walk all over you for your English efforts, I hope for the same courtesy when I'm trying to read it and ask for clarity.

 

[Kestrel]

Everyone, please no sniping & stay on topic. Thanks,

 

[TooManyGizmos]

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For those interested in reading similar threads like this one .....

You may click on this link to the "Archived pages" of the Battery Sub Forum :
"Smoke and Fire, Hot Cells and Close Calls - The dangerous side of batteries"

This "Archive" is a list of threads detailing certain "battery mis-haps" over the years on CPF . You can learn a lot from each thread .

The mis-haps include Primary type and Lithium-Ion rechargable type cells .
Both while being used in multi-cell lights and while being re-charged .

By reading these various threads we ALL learn from their mistakes .



Here is also a link to ALL the CPF Archives available : "Archive Index"

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[TooManyGizmos]

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The Heads of our lights need to be metal for heat-sinking purposes .....

But maybe we could get by with plastic end caps for switches and battery loading.That way maybe excessive pressure build up in a battery tube would just strip the plastic threads on the cap and pop it off , since it would be the weakest point of the metal battery tube . Seems that would be safer than these threaded pipe bombs that we are currently using . We just never know ..... any of us might be next to have an un-expected incident .

On twistie lights with no end caps , maybe the rear half of the body tube could be plastic , so it would rupture and split .... rather than explode and go flying .


Before it happens to you , maybe we should be collectively seeking a better solution to this on going problem . Holes drilled in the tube and filled with wax or a semi-permanent filler as a pressure relief valve , has been previously suggested . I am not sure the hole could be large enough to expel rapidly expanding gasses fast enough to prevent a violent explosion like the one seen in this thread .


Is it time to put Safety before aesthetically pleasing (metal) pipe bomb end-caps ?

Could you members tolerate threaded plastic safety end caps on your lights ?



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