Dark Sucks: Research Poll- what do you want to see?

[mvyrmnd]

First, what would all of you think about a Lego turbohead and/or an 18530/cr123 body tube?

YES!

Your current light, with a Warm tint MC-E and the ability to use 18350/18650 by exchangeable battery tube. Yummy!

Your current clip would look great on a 18350 tube.

I prefer floody lights, so the turbo head doesn't matter to me

 

[beerwax]

This is interesting, tell me more about why you like it? Size? Shape? Nostalgia?

maglite 2 aa definitly not nostalgia. weak crappy beam new bulb every 10 hours.
its all size and shape. simple smooth design, definitly no bigger than it needs to be.5.75 inchs long 17.5 mm battery tube 25 mm head.
a lot of aa offerings (xeno e03 thrunite nuetron sunwayman ) are 20 to 23 mm battery tubes with lumps and bumps and ridges. a quark comes close but they are only in black and they are not sleek. theres a jetbeam 1 aa and a nitecore ez aa but they are only single aa. i recall a wolfeyes 2aa but it was only black and had a focusable beam, peak may make one but i cant tell.

so there just doesnt seem to be a sleek minimalist 2aa. there certainly is a pool of folks like me that wont go near lithium batteries. and even if we did you can fit a 14500 in a 17.5 mm tube maybe even 17 mm.

maybe its been tried and its failed, or maybe i look in the wrong places . or maybe its an oppurtunity. im fairly sure the preon revo is a big success and its sleek minimalist high performance (in a aaa and at a 50 dollar price point).

cheers

 

[Gregozedobe]

Second, I got some QTC that I haven't had a chance to play with yet. What about an AA or AAA light with direct drive and QTC with cool, neutral, and high CRI options?

I'd be interested in both AA and AAA lights if they were (this is my personal wish/dream list, other people please feel free to have your own):

Small diameter and length(dd QTC twisty will help) - Something like DQG tiny (AA) or Q Mini AA size would be a good target
Simple UI - start on Lo and ramp to High with zero parasitic drain (QTC)
User replaceable QTC
Less than 1 lumen on Low, with long run time on AAA, very long run time on AA
Optimised for eneloops, with primary lithiums or alkalines as viable options (I promise to only use alkalines in desperate emergencies)
Not black (too hard to find, especially in low light conditions, let alone darkness, so nickel finish would be good )
Alu (SS too heavy, Ti threads not smooth enough), maybe a copper head for heat dissipation
Lightweight (doesn't have to be indestructible, I use my lights for illuminating, not as hammers)
Smooth, Floody beam (optics seem better than reflectors and are smaller too)
High CRI (and NOT cat's **** green tint)
Able to run on high continuously without needing my hand as a heat sink (don't need huge lumens from a pocket light)
Able to tailstand (ie flat tail) If people want a magnet they can glue their own (or make it an option)
Decent deep carry clip (removable)
Smooth shape (for pocket carry without abrading my clothes)
Mild anti roll
Good knurling (important for a twisty)
Polarity protection
Glo O ring in lens
Trit Option/s
Water resistance is good enough for me, don't need water "proof".
Key ring carry for AAA (not AA).
Threads smooth but head not loose (don't want light to fall apart when being carried)
Low battery volatge warning (blinks every 30 seconds or so, or just dim down noticeably without going out totally ? )

Hell, why not just make me an AAA one as a prototype, I'll buy it off you and tell you how it goes as my EDC. It's time I had a change

Given the enthusiasm for the no longer available LF2XT there are obviously plenty of people willing to pay for a premium small light.

 

[archer6817j]

YES!

Your current light, with a Warm tint MC-E and the ability to use 18350/18650 by exchangeable battery tube. Yummy!

Your current clip would look great on a 18350 tube.

I prefer floody lights, so the turbo head doesn't matter to me

Hi folks. Any other interest in a Lego 18350/123 body? This is the lowest hanging fruit an I could have finished product in 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately (for you) the body tube is one of the least expensive components so the price won't go down much maybe 10 bucks or something. Here is my one prototype...fitted with an xpg high CRI @ 1.4A.

I'd you are interested, post here and I'll put some units into the production queue.

 

[richpalm]

Lose the ridges... looks like a... well, you know.

I like the bead blasting though.

 

[mvyrmnd]

Jason, I've just tried to PM you, but your mailbox is full. I'll send you an email

 

[sassaquin]

Hi folks. Any other interest in a Lego 18350/123 body? This is the lowest hanging fruit an I could have finished product in 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately (for you) the body tube is one of the least expensive components so the price won't go down much maybe 10 bucks or something. Here is my one prototype...fitted with an xpg high CRI @ 1.4A.

I'd you are interested, post here and I'll put some units into the production queue.

What are the dimensions of the 18350/123 light? Will light be able to use primary
123? Also, what is the finish is on the larger light, it appears brownish gold in color?
Thanks.

 

[smarkum]

can you add some additional pictures as well as dimensions? thanks!!

 

[brembo]

Size- Small EDC form factor. CR123, AA, possibly 18650 single.

Emitter- This gets a bit sticky. I think an offering here is in order, XPG for some throw and XML for flood. The thing that is a must is guaranteed tint. Be it cool or neutral or warm, the customer must KNOW what's arriving in the mail. Weird tints on lower levels is just not acceptable when laying out cash for custom jobbies.

Material- Well, AL is the most logical choice for heatsinking, machining, coatings and cost. It is not the best for durability and bling factor tho. And let's be honest, bling has it's place on high-end custom torches. For me I'd love to see a Al bodied light with a SS crenelated bezel (light crens, for headstanding with some light seeping out, nothing tactical) and a SS tailcap. The tail should have a metal button with some slots for trits already milled. Side slots for decent gauge lanyard cord or keyring.

Material finishing- HA III of course is industry standard. Some like black, some like natural. Outta be an option. Xeno is having some real success with red, blue and black on their E03 light. Folks are buying multiple lights just to have some color in their pockets (granted they are only 30 bucks a pop). Knurling is a double-edged knife sometimes. It provides grip but might eat up the pocket it rides in. Make it an option

Clip-Some people won't even look at an EDC that lacks a well thought out and executed clip. Others won't look at a light that has a clip. Make it an option.

Power-The light, if it is an AA must accept any chemistry. I won't go near an AA sized light that won't fire on a 1.2 volt alky. If it'll support a 4.2 li-ion that's icing on the cake.

Overall-I think you have this licked. The light should feel "right", tight and impervious to abuse. Think solid rod of aluminum that just happens to have a clear end when a very smooth tactile button is mashed it emits light. Haptic feedback also conveys a sense of quality. Go mash a few buttons in a premium Audi, then go mash one in an eco minded Chevy, feel the difference?

And last, we as consumers on CPF are not big-box store consumer whores. You are selling items to consumers that may very well know more about the components going into your light than you do. Any dancing around issues will be quickly and brutally pointed out. Take the time to design, proto and process the lights so the final product is a known entity. Disclose any oddball behaviors and be prepared to make anything right (within reason of course). Good customer service helps sell lights, great customer service will create a waiting list.

 

[archer6817j]

This is Lego-able with my current lights.

Head dia-1.2"
Body dia-1.0"
Overall length-4.25"

The gold/brown finish is my standard electroless nickel plate. The "shorty" is raw, unplated aluminum.

It will "run" on primary CR123s but the board has a low voltage warning (beacon) @3.2v to protect lithium batteries and cuts off entirely @ 2.8v. Basically I'd consider a primary 123 an "emergency" option.

 

[archer6817j]

Having followed Dark Sucks since its inception, I appreciate the craftmanship and quality in your lights...but a $200 light should come with a pocket clip without an additional charge.

First, thanks for sticking around to watch the show. Second, you make an interesting point about the clip...but...can you give me an example of a high end custom light that actually comes with a clip included in the price? I could charge $225 and include the clip for free Seriously though, from a market research perspective, I'd love to know if someone is doing that because I haven't seen it yet.

Also, would you settle for an AA light or does it have to be CR123? One reason I haven't done that is because most of the custom builders already seem to be in that space.

 

[hotlight]

+1 to a side clicky p60 host.

If you're just asking about ANY product, I'd like to see more C-series products. Heads, bezels, bodies and tailcaps.
Always wondered about a twisty or side clicky P60 host.

 

[sassaquin]

First, thanks for sticking around to watch the show. Second, you make an interesting point about the clip...but...can you give me an example of a high end custom light that actually comes with a clip included in the price? I could charge $225 and include the clip for free Seriously though, from a market research perspective, I'd love to know if someone is doing that because I haven't seen it yet.

Also, would you settle for an AA light or does it have to be CR123? One reason I haven't done that is because most of the custom builders already seem to be in that space.

Jason,
Please accept my apologies if I offended you. My intent was not to single you out for your pricing policies, but to question why clips are such a big deal with flashlight makers (production and custom). All too often, I read about the frustration people have with flashlights not having clips. They either do not come standard, are available as an option at additional cost, have to be cannibalized from another light or sought out from a custom fabricator. Excuse my ignorance of materials and production costs, but why is this so, are clips that expensive to make? When I look at all the parts that go into a light, the clip seems so insignificant and inexpensive in relation to the rest of the light. I do not own, or know of, any high-end custom lights, or for that matter, any low-end custom lights (oxymoron?), that I could cite as an example of having a standard issue clip. Sadly, there are far too many production lights without them also. Anyhoo, sorry for calling you out, when I should have made a separate post about my issues with clips.

Yes, I would love to see a Dark Sucks AA light. Actually, more so than a CR123 light as smaller is better.:thumbsup:
I'm surprised that you feel there isn't room for more custom small lights as I see so much excitement when any new ones are introduced. Oh well, I hope that any designs you come out with are successful, and thank you for listening.

 

[archer6817j]

Jason,
Please accept my apologies if I offended you. My intent was not to single you out for your pricing policies, but to question why clips are such a big deal with flashlight makers (production and custom). All too often, I read about the frustration people have with flashlights not having clips. They either do not come standard, are available as an option at additional cost, have to be cannibalized from another light or sought out from a custom fabricator. Excuse my ignorance of materials and production costs, but why is this so, are clips that expensive to make? When I look at all the parts that go into a light, the clip seems so insignificant and inexpensive in relation to the rest of the light. I do not own, or know of, any high-end custom lights, or for that matter, any low-end custom lights (oxymoron?), that I could cite as an example of having a standard issue clip. Sadly, there are far too many production lights without them also. Anyhoo, sorry for calling you out, when I should have made a separate post about my issues with clips.

Yes, I would love to see a Dark Sucks AA light. Actually, more so than a CR123 light as smaller is better.:thumbsup:
I'm surprised that you feel there isn't room for more custom small lights as I see so much excitement when any new ones are introduced. Oh well, I hope that any designs you come out with are successful, and thank you for listening.

No problem at all! I'm happy to discuss any topic and always value feedback from the other side of the table.

For a large manufacturer clips should be no big deal. For a custom builder they are a PITA. To start, titanium is several times more expensive than any other material that is used for clips. Factor in the amount of time it takes to make each one and even at $25 it's just barely breaking even. From my perspective, I'd rather make the choice to spend $25 an option rather than a requirement since the price point is already high. It's just too expensive of a part to include as a "throw away" with every light. My neighbor asked me what my equivalent hourly wage is based on how long it takes to make a light and what I sell them for. It might seem like a lot when you are paying side, but the labor side the number is laughably small. No one is ever going to get rich making custom lights. Frankly, most custom lights on the market should cost double what people are selling them for in "real world" dollars.

In any case, I know at least a few large manufacturers that include a clip, but any titanium clip I've ever seen is a limited production affair.

I'm not opposed to making 123 based lights but I wanted to avoid that category (for my first entry) to show respect to my betters (McGizmo, Mac, Ku, Data, Download, and Photon Fanatic just to name a few). I don't think it's gentlemanly to come into a small community like this and go head to head with the "big guys" without showing some of my personal work first. I'm not here for rough and tumble competition and I'm certainly not here to copy anything that other people are doing. That's really hard cause there are only so many ways you can stick and LED and battery into a tube. It's also the reason I didn't buy any lights, let alone custom ones, before I started designing and building my own lights. I needed to prove to myself that I could do it, as well as proving it to all of you. I didn't need my solutions to be unique, but I at least wanted them to be original.

Anyway, if I do a small light, right now it's looking like an AA size and hopefully direct drive with quantum tunneling composite (QTC) to deliver infinitely variable output. I'm also hoping I can come up with a mechanical design that will eliminate some of the "wandering" in brightness that people are reporting on low settings. Haven't tried anything yet so who knows.

Today I also hatched another exciting idea that I've never seen before but that will have to remain a secret till I get some traction on that.

 

[sassaquin]

Thanks Jason for an eye opening look into the woes of clip manufacturing. Now that I understand all that goes into making them, I'll be much more accepting of the cost.

Hopefully, a Dark Sucks AA using QTC comes to fruition along with that exciting idea you're toying with.:twothumbs

 

[archer6817j]

Did I sound gloomy? I wouldn't say "woes" exactly but it's just harder than it looks to accomplish at a small scale

I guess I also forgot to mention waterjet cutting is a pretty expensive process in itself, but in small volume it's the only one (besides laser) that makes sense. A large company would create a stamping tool that could cut the material and bend it in the same process...but the tool would cost thousands of dollars and the manufacturing cost of 10,000 parts would be pennies. In my case the waterjet cutting costs far more than the material it's cut from. In a "normal" production environment that would be reversed.

With modern tools like CNCmills, lathes, and waterjet machines us "individuals" can do a lot of amazing work that, in the past, only huge companies could create. It's a lot of fun but we are using tools and processes for production that the same huge companies use for prototyping. It's really exciting to have those resources available though. Even just a decade ago it wouldn't have been possible to up and decide to start manufacturing my own flashlights without a massive capital investment.

I digress If you have more suggestions, keep 'em coming!

 

[nbp]

McGizmo sticks a crazy hot clip on everything he makes. If you want to see a good looking clip that sticks like flippin' glue, get something from Don. That is how clips should be done.

Btw, tiny AA light incorporating QTC could be very cool. If it's small enough, I'd love to see it in SS.

 

[Tkklemann]

So I thought I would post here as well seeing as though I just purchased a 2x AAA light..
I have three uses for all of my lights really, that I will classify into groups:
1. Work Light - I use my Eagletac PN20A2 for my work as it is small, bright, and easily pocketable.
I do have one complaint about it which seems consistent with some of peoples comments on here; The
pocketclip broke, and a good quality pocket clip is a must. I am disappointed in the light now,
it just floats around in my pocket now which is quite annoying. This is perhaps my most favorite
light as it is relatively clean, small, and easily pocketable. The light is very very useable
without being overly bright to where I can't see what I'm looking at. When I get home from spending
a long day at work, this is the light I use to first scan around my properly to look for primarily
rattle snakes, copperheads, cottonmouths etc.. before I let my dog out. When I go inside to get
my dog, I grab the No. 2 light.
2. General purpose "At home" light. I use a Lego Solarforce L2T with the Lighthound drop-in. I
like this set-up because it's modular, (Wanting to pick up an XML drop-in like the nailbender 3-mode
XML which would be perfect) plenty bright and great for using around the outside of my house. I live
next to a swamp, so I see all sorts of wildlife, a few of which are very dangerous animals, so its
imperitive I have a reliable light that's bright enough for me to see in all the nooks and crannies
around my place.
3. Entire Back Yard Burner - My Maglite with an SST-90. I use this in the morning after I wake
up to open the back door, turn the light on, and quite simply, see what animals are in the back
yard. This light is perfect because with the flood, I can see the entire yard, and with the spot,
I can immediately light up anything I see.
In the order I use the lights the most, bar none:
1. Eagletac PN20A2
2. Lego Solarforce with Lighthound Drop-In
3. Maglite.
I can see a trend with what people are saying on here, a very useful light is a 2x AAA light. I
really love my PN20A2, and would love to see a 2x AAA 180-200ish light on Max, with a medium mode
around what my Eagletac is. (~100 OTF) And of course a pocket clip that doesn't break like my OEM
Eagletac has done already. (I have only had it about 2 months, disappointing.)
If I could design a perfect light somehow, it would be a smoother version of the Eagletac, 180-200 OTF
on High, 100 OTF on Med, 10-15 OTF on Low, forward clickie, a pocket clip that could survive a bomb,
and maybe in a few colors. (I would love a red and a blue anodized version, even though I know you
aren't a fan of anodizing). I would take two of those if it was offered in a good price.
Hope this helps from your average flashaholic..

 

[psychbeat]

Id bet a 1X26650 COPPER p60 host or just a C head compatible body would sell.
the FM 1X26650 would sell out pretty fast I remember.
that battery is getting pretty popular and with all of these "hi power" drop-ins people
want more current.
the Cryos bezels seem to be popular too- imagine a Cryos bezel on a copper 26650 body?
sounds good to me

keep up the good work BTW!

 

[Brasso]

Here is why I haven't bought your light, or any of the other high output makers, lights. That dam Shiningbeam driver. You need something more customizable. The 10% low is just too high. I want my low to be around 1 lumen or less. The medium to be about 80. And the high can be as bright as you can get it. To me, the low-low is the most important feature.

Secondly, I want High CRI, or at the very least a warm tint.

I would also want to be able to use standard 123's in addition to the 18650's.