hawkhkg11
Enlightened
Don't even get me started on Chomsky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I have this (nerdy) mini-poster on my wall:
double-you bush and his plastic turkey (bird)
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Silviron
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
hawkhkg11 said:
Don't even get me started on Chomsky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I have this (nerdy) mini-poster on my wall:
[/ QUOTE ]
Why am I not in the least surprised!
If you told us he was your Father we wouldn't be surprised. It would explain much. Your excellent writing skills and your ideology; so advanced in the case of writing and "progressive" in terms of your philosophy, especially for one so young.
hawkhkg11 said:
Don't even get me started on Chomsky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I have this (nerdy) mini-poster on my wall:
[/ QUOTE ]
Why am I not in the least surprised!
If you told us he was your Father we wouldn't be surprised. It would explain much. Your excellent writing skills and your ideology; so advanced in the case of writing and "progressive" in terms of your philosophy, especially for one so young.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why am I not in the least surprised!
If you told us he was your Father we wouldn't be surprised. It would explain much. Your excellent writing skills and your ideology; so advanced in the case of writing and "progressive" in terms of your philosophy, especially for one so young.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh come on, that's just baiting.
You may not agree with him, but there are several points of view for any discussion. If everyone were to agree, there wouldn't be much point in talking (well, writing in this case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).
Why am I not in the least surprised!
If you told us he was your Father we wouldn't be surprised. It would explain much. Your excellent writing skills and your ideology; so advanced in the case of writing and "progressive" in terms of your philosophy, especially for one so young.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh come on, that's just baiting.
You may not agree with him, but there are several points of view for any discussion. If everyone were to agree, there wouldn't be much point in talking (well, writing in this case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).
whiskypapa3
Enlightened
Spelling error in subject line...
It's "Duuh--Bah--Yew"...
It's "Duuh--Bah--Yew"...
eluminator
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's dubya where I come from.
I don't much care for dubya, but I'd probably prefer him to whatever it was on the Democrat ticket.
The fact is, as long as we allow irresponsible people to vote, we're going to get bad government. And nothing will change until there's no trace left of the America I used to know.
One of many things that discourage me is 18 year old voting. The government says 18 year olds are to young to drink alcohol, but old enough to vote. Apparently Americans think it takes more wisdom, maturity, and understanding of the world in which we live, to drink a bottle of beer, than to choose our form of government.
And we are choosing our form of government. Big government vs. small government, or if you prefer, socialism vs. freedom.
I give up. It's all over, we just don't know it yet.
I don't much care for dubya, but I'd probably prefer him to whatever it was on the Democrat ticket.
The fact is, as long as we allow irresponsible people to vote, we're going to get bad government. And nothing will change until there's no trace left of the America I used to know.
One of many things that discourage me is 18 year old voting. The government says 18 year olds are to young to drink alcohol, but old enough to vote. Apparently Americans think it takes more wisdom, maturity, and understanding of the world in which we live, to drink a bottle of beer, than to choose our form of government.
And we are choosing our form of government. Big government vs. small government, or if you prefer, socialism vs. freedom.
I give up. It's all over, we just don't know it yet.
@Silviron: Wow, it seems like you have some real issues with Noam Chomsky there. Maybe you and Hawkhkg11 should talk them out sometime. He is much more the Chomsky expert than I. I've only seen the 4 hour documentary on him, from which, I can safely say that several of the things that you have just stated were taken out of context. I do find it funny though that if Chomsky is the anti-American monster that you make him out to be that MIT, one of the most prestigious colleges in *America* still has him teaching and on their payroll, but I won't go further into that right here and now.
The fact that democracies "manufacture consent" still stands though whether you like and/or approve of the messenger of the concept or not. It is a fact that has proven itself out countless times over the years. You have but to read a history book covering the last century to see again and again where the government has used the mass media to shape public opinion any way that they want in order to get common consent to do whatever they please, or at the very least, to get enough public consent that they don't have to worry about being ousted as a direct consequence of their actions. This is a very old and a very effective tactic, so do you all honestly believe that our current administration isn't slick enough to be using it on us all right now? I'll leave that for you all to contemplate for yourselves, but I think you all know the answer.
This also brings up the following philosophical question. Does one have to agree with everything that a person stands for in order to quote one single bit of wisdom that originated from them? I think not. You might see me share a quote from Hitler or some other such person someday, but that certainly doesn't mean that I agree with him on most things of consequence. There is, however, wisdom to be found everywhere if you only look for it.
I guess if I had just happened to have quoted Hitler, Mussolini or Hirohito or some other such person, instead of Chomsky, that everyone would be thinking of me as a Nazi now instead of only a communist/anarchist/anti-American. Whew, I guess it was a good thing that I only quoted Chomsky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The fact that democracies "manufacture consent" still stands though whether you like and/or approve of the messenger of the concept or not. It is a fact that has proven itself out countless times over the years. You have but to read a history book covering the last century to see again and again where the government has used the mass media to shape public opinion any way that they want in order to get common consent to do whatever they please, or at the very least, to get enough public consent that they don't have to worry about being ousted as a direct consequence of their actions. This is a very old and a very effective tactic, so do you all honestly believe that our current administration isn't slick enough to be using it on us all right now? I'll leave that for you all to contemplate for yourselves, but I think you all know the answer.
This also brings up the following philosophical question. Does one have to agree with everything that a person stands for in order to quote one single bit of wisdom that originated from them? I think not. You might see me share a quote from Hitler or some other such person someday, but that certainly doesn't mean that I agree with him on most things of consequence. There is, however, wisdom to be found everywhere if you only look for it.
I guess if I had just happened to have quoted Hitler, Mussolini or Hirohito or some other such person, instead of Chomsky, that everyone would be thinking of me as a Nazi now instead of only a communist/anarchist/anti-American. Whew, I guess it was a good thing that I only quoted Chomsky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
artar said it... although I'm not quite sure where he got it from... I think I saw somewhere else that Drudge was reporting it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
It went through the press at some point this week (TV&print media) - I didn't at that point and still don't understand the relevance of that "news report" though and ignored it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
Sasha said:
artar said it... although I'm not quite sure where he got it from... I think I saw somewhere else that Drudge was reporting it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
It went through the press at some point this week (TV&print media) - I didn't at that point and still don't understand the relevance of that "news report" though and ignored it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif
BGF
Newly Enlightened
The reason this is newsworthy to the liberal media is because the Demacrats were once again one-upped by the President, AND since they have brought NO productive legislation to bear, the only attention they get is making news out of nothing.They can't bring anying positive, so they magnify any issue to degrade someone else.
AND no one even gives a rip that whats-her name went!
Just my opinion, thanks B.G.
AND no one even gives a rip that whats-her name went!
Just my opinion, thanks B.G.
Silviron
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
Kristofg said:
Oh come on, that's just baiting.....).
[/ QUOTE ]
In what "Bizzarro World" must one live to believe that complimenting someone on having excellent writing skills and a great loyalty to their cause is an insult?
Kristofg said:
Oh come on, that's just baiting.....).
[/ QUOTE ]
In what "Bizzarro World" must one live to believe that complimenting someone on having excellent writing skills and a great loyalty to their cause is an insult?
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
So I guess Chomsky is blessed with the greatest insight into the history of US foreign policy and world geopolitical history including all its intentions and players and there is no possible reason he would place history in a context of his own to support his beliefs and try to get you to consume them wholesale? Jeez guys, I got a bridge here, real cheap! Any takers?
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
@TSG: What the heck are you going on about there? Nobody here has ever claimed that Chomsky has "the greatest insight into the history of US foreign policy and world geopolitical history", not even Hawk, and he is one of his greatest fans. All I said is simply that he was spot-on when it came to how democracies "manufacture consent" through manipulation of the media. Whatever else the man has to say, be it right or be it wrong, he is right about that one issue at the very least. You are trying to make a lot more out of this than what I ever said.
Sheesh, you guys are going on as though I had quoted from a mass murderer or something instead of a linguistics teacher at MIT. The only thing that I can see that has made this man so very controversial is the very outspoken way that he has so severely disagreed/dissented with the way that our politicians go to war and manipulate public opinion in order to do so without facing the proper repercussions for their actions. He has been labeled as "anti-American" by many because he has accused the U.S. of acts, that if they had been done by a foreign government, we would have called atrocities. Well, this is his opinion and he has the right to express it I say.
I guess if you are not one to jump on the war bandwagon then that in itself is enough to get you labeled as "anti-American" these days. Well, if you have to be labeled as "anti-American" in order to say that we don't have the right to unilaterally attack another sovereign country that has not attacked us first, then get ready to label me to because I would certainly fit *that* definition of an "anti-American", but this thread is really not the proper place to go into great detail about this and so I won't.
Sheesh, you guys are going on as though I had quoted from a mass murderer or something instead of a linguistics teacher at MIT. The only thing that I can see that has made this man so very controversial is the very outspoken way that he has so severely disagreed/dissented with the way that our politicians go to war and manipulate public opinion in order to do so without facing the proper repercussions for their actions. He has been labeled as "anti-American" by many because he has accused the U.S. of acts, that if they had been done by a foreign government, we would have called atrocities. Well, this is his opinion and he has the right to express it I say.
I guess if you are not one to jump on the war bandwagon then that in itself is enough to get you labeled as "anti-American" these days. Well, if you have to be labeled as "anti-American" in order to say that we don't have the right to unilaterally attack another sovereign country that has not attacked us first, then get ready to label me to because I would certainly fit *that* definition of an "anti-American", but this thread is really not the proper place to go into great detail about this and so I won't.
tsg68
Flashlight Enthusiast
Xcal, as I see it the mainstream media is entrenched firmly to the left and has done everything they can to derail the Bush admin. and all of it's efforts in Iraq so I don't know how you are arriving at this idea that the media is pushing right wing agenda.
From the evidence I have seen, mostly letters home from those actually participating in the occupation and reconstruction of the Iraqi infrastructure the media is grossly misrepresenting what is actually happening there. Most Iraqis are content that they have the possibility of an unlimited future, albeit they may be a little uncomfortable with the transition. I have seen multiple letters by folks that would rather be here at home with their families' that confirm that most demonstrations covered by the media are organized as propaganda tools by Saddam loyalists, foreign insurgents and Shiite fundamentalists (one really moronic camera crew was interviewing an "Iraqi" that was spouting hatred of the US and "weeping" for the deaths of his brothers until a SF soldier and Arab linguist standing nearby pointed out to them that the man was not Iraqi but Palestinian, as revealed by his dialect, and likely an insurgent fighter who had been holed up in a local mosque taking potshots at citizens and soldiers alike who's tears miraculously dried up as he attempted to escape into the crowd ) and that most attacks carried out by Iraqis are funded by Baathist party offices and foreign insurgents, basically buying the loyalties of young ignorant men who often end up dead for the few lousy pieces of currency they made. Naturally, the chance to engage US troops directly by foreign "Holy" warriors is too tempting an opportunity for them to pass up but look at the positive side, if they fight our military they aren't here blowing up our citizenry and the entire region is suddenly finding that they have a severe problem with fundamentalist militarism and they are being forced to deal with it on their own territories as well.
We are being made out to be a warmongering nation by media outlets the world over under the control of a handful of politically motivated monumentally wealthy individuals for invading a country presided over by a brutal, opportunistic threat to regional peace maintaining one of the largest conventional (if not unconfirmed unconventional) stockpiles of weaponry in the entire Middle East and yet the Iraqis are seeing first hand that our country is made up of brave, professional, intelligent, resourceful and compassionate people. Many of our troops have been credited with saving Iraqi lives in car accidents, house fires and industrial accidents as well as being very protective of its citizenry during skirmishes with insurgents often holding their fire and attempting to evacuate innocents from the line of fire, negotiating surrenders and hostage releases, while the insurgents themselves have been unconcerned with collateral damage that affects their own often killing children and the elderly and taking hostages.
From what I also understand, there are many foreign contractors participating in the reconstruction and that all profits from the sale of oil are going into the reconstruction. The US military units there have been called on to fill in as a civil utility on many occasions doing duties no other military could possibly fill. The 101st Airborne served as police and trash men and many other civil duties that they did not train for, it is just amazing the civil purpose they, and many other units, dedicated themselves to.
I support them and the people that make their job easier, and I lend them my patience in their difficult tasks. Godspeed.
As for a varnished turkey, who gives a rat's a$$!
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
From the evidence I have seen, mostly letters home from those actually participating in the occupation and reconstruction of the Iraqi infrastructure the media is grossly misrepresenting what is actually happening there. Most Iraqis are content that they have the possibility of an unlimited future, albeit they may be a little uncomfortable with the transition. I have seen multiple letters by folks that would rather be here at home with their families' that confirm that most demonstrations covered by the media are organized as propaganda tools by Saddam loyalists, foreign insurgents and Shiite fundamentalists (one really moronic camera crew was interviewing an "Iraqi" that was spouting hatred of the US and "weeping" for the deaths of his brothers until a SF soldier and Arab linguist standing nearby pointed out to them that the man was not Iraqi but Palestinian, as revealed by his dialect, and likely an insurgent fighter who had been holed up in a local mosque taking potshots at citizens and soldiers alike who's tears miraculously dried up as he attempted to escape into the crowd ) and that most attacks carried out by Iraqis are funded by Baathist party offices and foreign insurgents, basically buying the loyalties of young ignorant men who often end up dead for the few lousy pieces of currency they made. Naturally, the chance to engage US troops directly by foreign "Holy" warriors is too tempting an opportunity for them to pass up but look at the positive side, if they fight our military they aren't here blowing up our citizenry and the entire region is suddenly finding that they have a severe problem with fundamentalist militarism and they are being forced to deal with it on their own territories as well.
We are being made out to be a warmongering nation by media outlets the world over under the control of a handful of politically motivated monumentally wealthy individuals for invading a country presided over by a brutal, opportunistic threat to regional peace maintaining one of the largest conventional (if not unconfirmed unconventional) stockpiles of weaponry in the entire Middle East and yet the Iraqis are seeing first hand that our country is made up of brave, professional, intelligent, resourceful and compassionate people. Many of our troops have been credited with saving Iraqi lives in car accidents, house fires and industrial accidents as well as being very protective of its citizenry during skirmishes with insurgents often holding their fire and attempting to evacuate innocents from the line of fire, negotiating surrenders and hostage releases, while the insurgents themselves have been unconcerned with collateral damage that affects their own often killing children and the elderly and taking hostages.
From what I also understand, there are many foreign contractors participating in the reconstruction and that all profits from the sale of oil are going into the reconstruction. The US military units there have been called on to fill in as a civil utility on many occasions doing duties no other military could possibly fill. The 101st Airborne served as police and trash men and many other civil duties that they did not train for, it is just amazing the civil purpose they, and many other units, dedicated themselves to.
I support them and the people that make their job easier, and I lend them my patience in their difficult tasks. Godspeed.
As for a varnished turkey, who gives a rat's a$$!
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Here is a recent Noam Chomsky: You Ask The Questions and a Response to one of his statements.
Boy--I really enjoy politics--but I am reminded of why I found 'MIT' and college type politics completely unreadable.
By the way, I really don't place much weight on who (whom?) is employed by a unversity. We had Angela Davis as a professor at my school when I was there (SFSU). According to the link, interestingly, she has had a minor conversion: "When the Soviet Union began to fall apart, however, Davis gave up communism." She is now "...in the History of Consciousness Department at the University of California, Santa Cruz."
-Bill
Boy--I really enjoy politics--but I am reminded of why I found 'MIT' and college type politics completely unreadable.
By the way, I really don't place much weight on who (whom?) is employed by a unversity. We had Angela Davis as a professor at my school when I was there (SFSU). According to the link, interestingly, she has had a minor conversion: "When the Soviet Union began to fall apart, however, Davis gave up communism." She is now "...in the History of Consciousness Department at the University of California, Santa Cruz."
-Bill
hawkhkg11
Enlightened
Interesting "response" by a Zionist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
pedalinbob
Flashlight Enthusiast
i think x-cal meant to say "in my opinion, the US didnt have the right to unilaterally attack another sovereign country..."
because, YES, we DO have the right. go read the UN resolutions. then read them again, and take a few notes.
they violated, we took action.
does anyone still believe we have done the wrong thing? here is a copy of a post i made at another board. beware, the images are pretty graphic:
Saddam was just misunderstood!
he really was a good guy. really!
http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/
he was a real softy...only managing to average an estimated 20,000+ murders per year during his reign. what is the big deal???
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/0/786D03C11D32A07F85256D9D004BFBFB?opendocument
heck, we should have never intervened!
the UN would have taken care of him sooner or later anyway...perhaps in another 25 years?
how about a little video? Go to their home page and select the 4th link on the right of the screen.
www.9neesan.com
now go enjoy your American freedom.
Bob
because, YES, we DO have the right. go read the UN resolutions. then read them again, and take a few notes.
they violated, we took action.
does anyone still believe we have done the wrong thing? here is a copy of a post i made at another board. beware, the images are pretty graphic:
Saddam was just misunderstood!
he really was a good guy. really!
http://www.9neesan.com/massgraves/
he was a real softy...only managing to average an estimated 20,000+ murders per year during his reign. what is the big deal???
http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/0/786D03C11D32A07F85256D9D004BFBFB?opendocument
heck, we should have never intervened!
the UN would have taken care of him sooner or later anyway...perhaps in another 25 years?
how about a little video? Go to their home page and select the 4th link on the right of the screen.
www.9neesan.com
now go enjoy your American freedom.
Bob
hawkhkg11
Enlightened
I suppose the fact that we supported the torturous Saddam (and tens of other regimes) for decades doesn't really matter.
Want to help the world? Stop spreading around propaganda images of mass graves, and write a letter to your Congressman telling them to go stop the genocide in Congo. Oh wait. They don't have anything we want.
Want to help the world? Stop spreading around propaganda images of mass graves, and write a letter to your Congressman telling them to go stop the genocide in Congo. Oh wait. They don't have anything we want.
pedalinbob
Flashlight Enthusiast
you didnt answer my question, hawk.
nice attempt at re-direction...just as i thought you would.
have we done the right thing, or not? did you check out the video of the guys being executed with hand grenades?
does the fact that we havent gone into the congo nullify the positive we have done in iraq?
perhaps, due to limited funding and resources we have to choose one project of many--the one that serves our needs/other's needs best. oh, yeah...where is the beloved UN in the congo? why dont they take their mighty forces in there and stop the genocide?
i think france should go fix the congo. yeah, that sounds perfect.
yes, we supported a lot of people, at one time or another. friends change. it happens.
your argument is illogical.
do you infer that because we have supported an a-hole in the past that we cannot now do the right thing?
perhaps we shouldnt be friendly with japan, germany or russia due to past differences, right?
Bob
nice attempt at re-direction...just as i thought you would.
have we done the right thing, or not? did you check out the video of the guys being executed with hand grenades?
does the fact that we havent gone into the congo nullify the positive we have done in iraq?
perhaps, due to limited funding and resources we have to choose one project of many--the one that serves our needs/other's needs best. oh, yeah...where is the beloved UN in the congo? why dont they take their mighty forces in there and stop the genocide?
i think france should go fix the congo. yeah, that sounds perfect.
yes, we supported a lot of people, at one time or another. friends change. it happens.
your argument is illogical.
do you infer that because we have supported an a-hole in the past that we cannot now do the right thing?
perhaps we shouldnt be friendly with japan, germany or russia due to past differences, right?
Bob
hawkhkg11
Enlightened
You would be right if there weren't thousands of French peacekeepers currently in Africa already. See any American peacekeepers there? The French are playing an active part to prevent genocide and civil war in many parts of Africa.
Your ends based argument is commendable, but I'm talking about motives here. When overwhelming evidence has shown that the U.S. doesn't intervene to help people, but merely to help itself (often killing millions of people in the process), obviously I can't see any goodness in our actions now, even if they do lead to some goodness. Infact, I find this even more disturbing. The U.S. has been shown repeatedly to coax it's own population into believing that it is intervening for humanitarian or "democratic" purposes. But of course, we are only there to set up friendly dictators, investment opportunities, and other purposes that involve money or security. It's startling how easy American's can be cajoled into believing our interests and actions are pure by setting up some cameras to film soldiers handing out cookies to Iraqi children.
A insightful non-trick question for you. This has nothing to do with the current topic of conversation. Who is responsible for the largest systematic genocidal campaign in the history of the world?
Your ends based argument is commendable, but I'm talking about motives here. When overwhelming evidence has shown that the U.S. doesn't intervene to help people, but merely to help itself (often killing millions of people in the process), obviously I can't see any goodness in our actions now, even if they do lead to some goodness. Infact, I find this even more disturbing. The U.S. has been shown repeatedly to coax it's own population into believing that it is intervening for humanitarian or "democratic" purposes. But of course, we are only there to set up friendly dictators, investment opportunities, and other purposes that involve money or security. It's startling how easy American's can be cajoled into believing our interests and actions are pure by setting up some cameras to film soldiers handing out cookies to Iraqi children.
A insightful non-trick question for you. This has nothing to do with the current topic of conversation. Who is responsible for the largest systematic genocidal campaign in the history of the world?
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
hawkhkg11 said:
Interesting "response" by a Zionist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I find that this is why it is hard for me to get too excited in these one thought responses. You look up a word in the dictionary:
Definition:
[n] a policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews in Palestine
[n] a movement of world Jewry that arose late in the 19th century with the aim of creating a Jewish state in Palestine
And somehow that answers/rebuts an article with documented points.
To be honest, I have no idea who Pejman Yousefzadeh is. He seems to have documented the myriad of recent stories that I have read.
Hawk, is there something wrong with the stories coming out of the EU (including the preliminary report that was deep-sixed--apparently because of political correctness)?
I have friends (co-workers and family) from all over the world--I don't just pigeon hole somebody with one word. I listen to their arguments/facts/etc. and discuss.
Hawk, to use an older dictionary for:
Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Definition: \Prop`a*gan"da\, n. [Abbrev. fr. L. de propaganda
fide: cf. F. propagande. See {Propagate}.]
1. (R. C. Ch.)
(a) A congregation of cardinals, established in 1622,
charged with the management of missions.
(b) The college of the Propaganda, instituted by Urban
VIII. (1623-1644) to educate priests for missions in
all parts of the world.
2. Hence, any organization or plan for spreading a particular doctrine or a system of principles.
How can anyone every have a political discussion if the 'facts' can never be discussed. The Mass Graves pictures have been posted twice (once by me) to this thread now--I do not know who pedalinbob (although he sounds like a very nice person!) is--and I doubt that the Cafe in the CPF is part of "...any organization or plan for spreading a particular doctrine or a system of principles."
And now you want us to go into the Congo? At least Bush (and Clinton and Bush the 1st) had multiple UN resolutions in support of the "Iraq Conflict". Either we do go into the Congo (and "applaud" what was done in Iraq) or we stay out (because it is not a US or UN interest).
In the end, I have seen many comments all over the place, and very few pointed replies backed by facts.
You want to make a presentation for US/UN/World involvement in the Congo--lets open a thread for it.
Sincerely,
Bill
hawkhkg11 said:
Interesting "response" by a Zionist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
I find that this is why it is hard for me to get too excited in these one thought responses. You look up a word in the dictionary:
Definition:
[n] a policy for establishing and developing a national homeland for Jews in Palestine
[n] a movement of world Jewry that arose late in the 19th century with the aim of creating a Jewish state in Palestine
And somehow that answers/rebuts an article with documented points.
To be honest, I have no idea who Pejman Yousefzadeh is. He seems to have documented the myriad of recent stories that I have read.
Hawk, is there something wrong with the stories coming out of the EU (including the preliminary report that was deep-sixed--apparently because of political correctness)?
I have friends (co-workers and family) from all over the world--I don't just pigeon hole somebody with one word. I listen to their arguments/facts/etc. and discuss.
Hawk, to use an older dictionary for:
Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Definition: \Prop`a*gan"da\, n. [Abbrev. fr. L. de propaganda
fide: cf. F. propagande. See {Propagate}.]
1. (R. C. Ch.)
(a) A congregation of cardinals, established in 1622,
charged with the management of missions.
(b) The college of the Propaganda, instituted by Urban
VIII. (1623-1644) to educate priests for missions in
all parts of the world.
2. Hence, any organization or plan for spreading a particular doctrine or a system of principles.
How can anyone every have a political discussion if the 'facts' can never be discussed. The Mass Graves pictures have been posted twice (once by me) to this thread now--I do not know who pedalinbob (although he sounds like a very nice person!) is--and I doubt that the Cafe in the CPF is part of "...any organization or plan for spreading a particular doctrine or a system of principles."
And now you want us to go into the Congo? At least Bush (and Clinton and Bush the 1st) had multiple UN resolutions in support of the "Iraq Conflict". Either we do go into the Congo (and "applaud" what was done in Iraq) or we stay out (because it is not a US or UN interest).
In the end, I have seen many comments all over the place, and very few pointed replies backed by facts.
You want to make a presentation for US/UN/World involvement in the Congo--lets open a thread for it.
Sincerely,
Bill
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