bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Beyond coincidence?
Dspeck isn't very awol, he's online right now!
Bill
Dspeck isn't very awol, he's online right now!
Bill
Events beyond coincidence?
- Thread starter brightnorm
- Start date
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eebowler
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Beyond coincidence?
1) Sh** happens. The more people who convene in one place, the more 'sh** happened to me' stories you will encounter.
2)Of cosurse, you have the phychological aspect as well. If one person decides to complain of something bad happening, others will feel more comfortable to complain about their woes and mishaps too.
3)Do we (humans in general) talk about good things as much as we talk of the bad?
4) To make things worse for you paranoid people, I gurantee that all the bad coincidents you know of in here at this moment is probably less than half of the problems members of CPF are experiencing now.
1) Sh** happens. The more people who convene in one place, the more 'sh** happened to me' stories you will encounter.
2)Of cosurse, you have the phychological aspect as well. If one person decides to complain of something bad happening, others will feel more comfortable to complain about their woes and mishaps too.
3)Do we (humans in general) talk about good things as much as we talk of the bad?
4) To make things worse for you paranoid people, I gurantee that all the bad coincidents you know of in here at this moment is probably less than half of the problems members of CPF are experiencing now.
Re: Beyond coincidence?
A fitting bit to qoute from Mel Brooks...
- (A very dirty Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman heave the body from the grave, spitting out dirt)
- What a filthy, rotten, disgusting job.
- Oh, I dunno, could be worse.
- HOW?
- Could be raining!
- (flash of lightning and a BOOM! followed by a downpour)
- (Marty Feldman looks up, smiles, and blinks as the rain runs down his face)
A fitting bit to qoute from Mel Brooks...
- (A very dirty Gene Wilder and Marty Feldman heave the body from the grave, spitting out dirt)
- What a filthy, rotten, disgusting job.
- Oh, I dunno, could be worse.
- HOW?
- Could be raining!
- (flash of lightning and a BOOM! followed by a downpour)
- (Marty Feldman looks up, smiles, and blinks as the rain runs down his face)
Re: Beyond coincidence?
Huh? I think it depends on how you look at it. Like a horoscope. I posted my resume online and have emails and messages of new jobs. Going on an interview Thursday. I could go on on positive and negative things.
On the other hand, we are just meat puppets. Theere are many beings in the 4th dimension that use us to help others, create havick and so on. Ever seem a bad situation get worse or someone come by just in time to help?
Huh? I think it depends on how you look at it. Like a horoscope. I posted my resume online and have emails and messages of new jobs. Going on an interview Thursday. I could go on on positive and negative things.
On the other hand, we are just meat puppets. Theere are many beings in the 4th dimension that use us to help others, create havick and so on. Ever seem a bad situation get worse or someone come by just in time to help?
PhotonWrangler
Flashaholic
Re: Beyond coincidence?
There's some seriously bad mojo going on here also but I'm trying to focus on the positive -
1) We're still vertical.
2) We still have our fellowship here.
3) We're still able to think independently.
4) Saw a gorgeous harvest moon early this morning.
...anyone else?
There's some seriously bad mojo going on here also but I'm trying to focus on the positive -
1) We're still vertical.
2) We still have our fellowship here.
3) We're still able to think independently.
4) Saw a gorgeous harvest moon early this morning.
...anyone else?
brightnorm
Flashaholic
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2001
- Messages
- 7,160
Re: Beyond coincidence?
[ QUOTE ]
nerdgineer said:
... stuff happens all the time and it takes just a little squinting to start seeing patterns...
[/ QUOTE ]
Good summary. Guess I was just having a Twilight Zone moment.
Brightnorm
[ QUOTE ]
nerdgineer said:
... stuff happens all the time and it takes just a little squinting to start seeing patterns...
[/ QUOTE ]
Good summary. Guess I was just having a Twilight Zone moment.
Brightnorm
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Beyond coincidence?
The scientific/materialistic "faith" would say that such things are apriori excluded from consideration, just as belief in a God or spirit world. However, even a brief examination of this scientific "faith" shows that it is not scientific.
Things like this CAN be investigated from a skeptical, but not dogmatic point of view. An example of this is the belief that births are more frequent on nights with a full moon. I read once that many hospital workers were certain that there really WERE more births on the nights of a full moon. However, a careful look at hospital records and birth statistics showed that there was no deviation from the statistical norm. What probably happened was that the people were aware of, and looking for, this connection, and thus it stood out more in their minds.
A good example is when you buy a new (or new to you) car that is a model you never noticed or thought of before. Suddenly, you will notice all sorts of these model cars driving around. It's obviously not that a bunch of people decided to imitate you, but that your mind clued into a new pattern.
But is what is going on here at CPF this week (and last) beyond coincidence or not? Is it a pattern seen through a glass darkly (or by squinting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) or is it more than a psychological phenomenon?
Almost impossible to say, unfortunately. I for one will not exclude either case from consideration. There are those who believe it is all chance, all random, all meaningless; and there are those who believe that everything is pre-ordained by God, that it is all connected somehow, all meaningful. I believe that due to the mysterious thing called free-will, and God's way of upholding the cosmos and all creatures in it, that there is room for both chance AND providence. A simplistic view would say that these two are incompatible, but I have given the matter no small amount of consideration, and I do not think so.
Having started from a staunch athesistic, materialistic scientific philosophy in my college days, I long ago came to the point of belief in God and in the spiritual world. I have seen and experienced things I cannot deny.
So I am neither so quick to write this topic of as "just" coincidence or more than that.
People like to show how this pattern recognition of the mind is mistaken; how we only "imagine" things.
Allow me to relate one short incidence. I apprenticed to learn how to tune and rebuild and repair pianos. Learning to tune a piano was a lesson in frustation and mystery. My master would play an interval and say, "OK, now it is perfect, ... , now it is wide, ..., now it is narrow" or "Do you hear that this third is beating faster than this third?" or "Do you hear that this fifth is beating about once per two seconds?" and so on. And for the life of me I had NO IDEA what he was talking about. It was only from his description of what I was listening for, and where, that I made myself imagine what I would hear. Then, low and behold, I really DID hear it--sometimes. Gradually I trained my ear--my mind, really--to hear, to listen for these patterns.
But even today, when I tune, I sometimes imagine that I'm hearing something, that's not really there, but when I do one test after another, and make comparisons, I realize that I wasn't really hearing what I thought I was hearing.
Still, my point is simple: at the limits of perception and discrimination of order within relative disorder, the mind is working in this "twilight zone". Strange but true. In fact, have you ever noticed in a hearing test, that you imagine that you hear the tone long before you are certain that you DO hear it? And most people write it off as imagination. As a piano tuner, I have learned to work in this uncertain area of perception, and so I can test out EXTREMELY well on the hearing tests, but not because I have better ears than I did ten years ago. Hardly! But because I have a better mind for hearing than I did ten years ago. Astronomers say the same thing about vision--that one must learn to see the stars. And it's true!
These simple examples from the realm of the pratical should be enough to deter people from writing off imagination and pattern discrimination as mere artifacts.
I believe that the soul itself is an organ of perception that lies unused and dormant in many people and I belive that there are spiritual forces at work in the world and in our lives and that they are of paramount importance.
Nonetheless, if I had to check a box on a ballot about whether the bad things that have happened here on CPF lately are beyond coincidence or not, I would check "Not". It's the conservative (with a small "c") in me I guess.
Sorry for the long and rambling post.
The scientific/materialistic "faith" would say that such things are apriori excluded from consideration, just as belief in a God or spirit world. However, even a brief examination of this scientific "faith" shows that it is not scientific.
Things like this CAN be investigated from a skeptical, but not dogmatic point of view. An example of this is the belief that births are more frequent on nights with a full moon. I read once that many hospital workers were certain that there really WERE more births on the nights of a full moon. However, a careful look at hospital records and birth statistics showed that there was no deviation from the statistical norm. What probably happened was that the people were aware of, and looking for, this connection, and thus it stood out more in their minds.
A good example is when you buy a new (or new to you) car that is a model you never noticed or thought of before. Suddenly, you will notice all sorts of these model cars driving around. It's obviously not that a bunch of people decided to imitate you, but that your mind clued into a new pattern.
But is what is going on here at CPF this week (and last) beyond coincidence or not? Is it a pattern seen through a glass darkly (or by squinting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) or is it more than a psychological phenomenon?
Almost impossible to say, unfortunately. I for one will not exclude either case from consideration. There are those who believe it is all chance, all random, all meaningless; and there are those who believe that everything is pre-ordained by God, that it is all connected somehow, all meaningful. I believe that due to the mysterious thing called free-will, and God's way of upholding the cosmos and all creatures in it, that there is room for both chance AND providence. A simplistic view would say that these two are incompatible, but I have given the matter no small amount of consideration, and I do not think so.
Having started from a staunch athesistic, materialistic scientific philosophy in my college days, I long ago came to the point of belief in God and in the spiritual world. I have seen and experienced things I cannot deny.
So I am neither so quick to write this topic of as "just" coincidence or more than that.
People like to show how this pattern recognition of the mind is mistaken; how we only "imagine" things.
Allow me to relate one short incidence. I apprenticed to learn how to tune and rebuild and repair pianos. Learning to tune a piano was a lesson in frustation and mystery. My master would play an interval and say, "OK, now it is perfect, ... , now it is wide, ..., now it is narrow" or "Do you hear that this third is beating faster than this third?" or "Do you hear that this fifth is beating about once per two seconds?" and so on. And for the life of me I had NO IDEA what he was talking about. It was only from his description of what I was listening for, and where, that I made myself imagine what I would hear. Then, low and behold, I really DID hear it--sometimes. Gradually I trained my ear--my mind, really--to hear, to listen for these patterns.
But even today, when I tune, I sometimes imagine that I'm hearing something, that's not really there, but when I do one test after another, and make comparisons, I realize that I wasn't really hearing what I thought I was hearing.
Still, my point is simple: at the limits of perception and discrimination of order within relative disorder, the mind is working in this "twilight zone". Strange but true. In fact, have you ever noticed in a hearing test, that you imagine that you hear the tone long before you are certain that you DO hear it? And most people write it off as imagination. As a piano tuner, I have learned to work in this uncertain area of perception, and so I can test out EXTREMELY well on the hearing tests, but not because I have better ears than I did ten years ago. Hardly! But because I have a better mind for hearing than I did ten years ago. Astronomers say the same thing about vision--that one must learn to see the stars. And it's true!
These simple examples from the realm of the pratical should be enough to deter people from writing off imagination and pattern discrimination as mere artifacts.
I believe that the soul itself is an organ of perception that lies unused and dormant in many people and I belive that there are spiritual forces at work in the world and in our lives and that they are of paramount importance.
Nonetheless, if I had to check a box on a ballot about whether the bad things that have happened here on CPF lately are beyond coincidence or not, I would check "Not". It's the conservative (with a small "c") in me I guess.
Sorry for the long and rambling post.
brightnorm
Flashaholic
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2001
- Messages
- 7,160
Re: Beyond coincidence?
Interesting, that perception is affected by expectation, experience and training, not just plain "if it's there I'll see it, if not I won't". One well known example:
You are literally starving to death and a beauitiful naked lady walks by carrying loaves of bread. What do you see? Guess.
BN
Interesting, that perception is affected by expectation, experience and training, not just plain "if it's there I'll see it, if not I won't". One well known example:
You are literally starving to death and a beauitiful naked lady walks by carrying loaves of bread. What do you see? Guess.
BN
