Flashlight For Self-Defense

[JetskiMark]

Interesting thread here and some good tips.

if you intend on carrying a light for self-defense, i advise you carry a small one, so it won't hurt as much when your attacker shoves it up your a**.

I must admit, that was hilarious.

Maybe I should order a Wee.

Regards,
Mark

 

[Monocrom]

to Monocrom --


Thank you for your words of wisdom in this thread. :thumbsup:


Straight-talk. Pure and simple.


No sugar-coated, "feel-good" nonsense.



Real advice, for the Real World.

:goodjob:
_

Thanks for the kind words.

I try not to take myself too seriously. And I sometimes joke around when posting on CPF. But I always take the subject of self-defense very seriously. My training and experience forces me to do that. It's not fun, this topic. But definitely too important to sugar-coat what happens out in the real world. Being a family-friendly forum, I can't go into too many gruesome details. But I hope I got my point across to anyone curious about this subject.

 

[Lightraven]

One day, I may figure out the origins of the flashlight (beam)-for-self-defense concept. Nobody I know of is teaching to flash a threat.

The problem with violence is that it IS violent. Chances are, if it doesn't hurt, it won't work.

People (and law enforcement agencies) want a weapon that is legal, effective and harmless. Unfortunately, no such weapon exists.

I have talked to dozens of law enforcement coworkers who have been attacked and had to fight--often for their lives. I read weekly reports on fights throughout my agency. Consistently, what has been effective is .40 caliber bullets. Also, the ASP baton against the head and hands, but not legs or torso. Note the possibilities with a C cell Mag lite or Ultrastinger.

Non lethals such as pepper spray, pepperballs, Stingballs, FN-303s, Tasers sometimes work, other times not. If anybody has subdued a threat with a light beam, I haven't heard of it in a dozen years of arresting criminals of various flavors. In fact, I ambushed a suspect in near total darkness with a Surefire M6 with 500 lumen lamp and he took off running like I fired a starting gun. So much for blinding, stunning or disorienting. I didn't even get 2 good seconds! But I eventually found him.

 

[TITAN1833]

lol this is funny,my advice is to carry a suppository with in built 300 lumen out front.At least that way,if he wrestles the light "thing" from you,what comes next will not be such a harsh surprise!!! when he sticks your A** think safe..Always :devil: instead, I would suggest try carrying physiological weapons i.e think like a attacker"do you look like a "likely" target" and above all be totally intune with what is going on around you

Be safe and do not carry a 6D maglite is my best advice

 

[stitch_paradox]

Whoah, monocrom, those are great tips you got there! I actually learned something new the money clip thing. It's sad to see that some underestimate the evil capabilities of a person, and those that did usually ended up dead or hurt.

I had a personal experience with flash light that changed my view on it as self defense weapon. I go to work at 3 am in a shady part of town. Before this incident I don't carry knife, I occasionally bring pepper spray and a flashlight with me though. While I was about to park my car one time, I saw a figure coming towards my direction in my rear view mirror. I immediately got my flashlight and went out of the car, and shone the light towards the person. It was a female person high on drugs at the time. She stopped on her tracks for a while when I shine the light in her face, she squinted her eyes and kinda looked away but then she continues to approach me blabbering words I don't understand. Now I was using a Surefire 6P with a high output 120 lumen lamp. Supposed to be tactically blinding. She kept on walking towards me and asking for my name and offering sex, so I kept on backing up asking her to stop. (LOL) I noticed though that she kept on looking at the other side of the parking lot, so I shifted my postion so that I can lit up that area and have the lady in my sight at the same time. Then I saw someone hiding in the bush, thats when I really got alerted, what amazed me was this lady was still walking towards me and asking to see my face, she seems to be not affected by the light. She only stopped when my coworker arrived at the parking lot too. Then she ran towards the person on the bush and they left immediately.

So after my incident this really got me thinking if the lady was an aggressive male criminal with a knife he could still easily have lounged at me and stab me no matter how bright the light I shine on him, sure I can bash his head with the light's bezel and get a circular wound on his head, but thats nothing compared to the bloody faucet he left on my abdomen. If I had been carrying a knife (which I do now) then that would have been a different story.
Sure it helped me asses the surrounding and delay the perpetrator's plan, but I realized that relying solely on a flashlight to defend your life is a bad idea.

By the way, some lights that advertise 230+ lumens is not really 230+ lumens. They measure their lumens at the emitter so it's really like 150 lumens out the front. And with first hand experimentation, my eye hurts more woth incan that LED.

 

[Lightraven]

Hold the phone!

Shining a flashlight at a woman will cause her to approach you offering sex? Now I'm learning something!

 

[stitch_paradox]

Hold the phone!

Shining a flashlight at a woman will cause her to approach you offering sex? Now I'm learning something!

LOL having a BIG flashlight does have it's benefits. Kidding aside... yep, even though I'm blasting her with 120+ lumens in her face, she still kept on approaching me and offering.. should I say.. yum yum. Its amazes me on what can people high on glue can do.

 

[Burgess]

to Stitch_Paradox --


That was a very interesting story, and situation.


Lots of info, and "food for thought", for discussion there.


Thank you for sharing that with us. :thumbsup:



I, too, have seen "high" people who are quite irrational and unpredictable in their behavior.


And that's withOUT an evil accomplice, hiding in the bushes.



_

 

[stitch_paradox]

People high on drugs and other illegal substances, have very formidable behavior, heck some of them don't even feel pain when high.

Sex + mugging is quite a common modus operandi among these people. The girl will offer you some "relief", then while your at it in secluded place a guy accomplice will mug you from behind. If I didn't know any better I would have been a victim, the lady was actually pretty cute. Just kidding!

After this incident I made a little experiment. I asked my brother to walk in the park with the flashlight I used that night, and I will try to "mug" him. Given the fact that my brother already knew he was going to be "attacked" ( same that night, I already saw in the rear view mirror a figure coming towards my vehicle) he was ready and anticipating for me, so the element of surprise is gone. To make the long story short, I found out that:
1. My eyes are more affected with incans than LED, that is a SFp91 versus a Malkoff M60.
2. I was quickly blinded by the sudden burst of lumen in my face, but I was also able to quickly adapt my eyes to the bright light. And by focusing my eyesight maybe a couple of feet under the lights source I was able to see the body outline of my brother. I was able to outline his stance, and somewhat I can see what his other hand was doing.
3. When I lounged and tackled my brother I was able to "stab" my bother atleast twice before he can even wack my head with the light.
4. The tactical strobe is useless, (its mesmerizing though when you stare at it for some time) I didn't get dizzy, I didn't get confused, but I did get agitated. Before you can even get to the strobe mode the attacker could have just attacked you already. It took as some retake before my brother got the strobe mode right, now in a real life situation you cannot have a retake. It did get the attention of some guys playing basketball some yards away.

 

[Monocrom]

lol this is funny,my advice is to carry a suppository with in built 300 lumen out front.At least that way,if he wrestles the light "thing" from you,what comes next will not be such a harsh surprise!!! when he sticks your A** think safe..Always :devil: instead, I would suggest try carrying physiological weapons i.e think like a attacker"do you look like a "likely" target" and above all be totally intune with what is going on around you

Be safe and do not carry a 6D maglite is my best advice

Ironically, your joking post highlights too very important Self-defense concepts.

1 - In this world, there are predators; and they're looking for food. Don't act like "food."

2 - Advanced Awareness & Avoidence techniques can cause a mugger or attacker to choose someone more oblivious to victimize.

 

[Monocrom]

.... By the way, some lights that advertise 230+ lumens is not really 230+ lumens. They measure their lumens at the emitter so it's really like 150 lumens out the front. And with first hand experimentation, my eye hurts more woth incan that LED.

You are correct. One of the things I like about Surefire is that they measure their lumens out the front. A handful of other companies do that too.

There was a CPFer who had a chance to measure the output of the Fenix T1 on an integrating sphere at his job. The T1, with two CR123 Surefire cells inside of it; measured 225 lumens.

I'm glad everything worked out for you. I'm assuming you got some training before carrying the knife for self-defense. For that purpose, I favor any knife with Emerson's Wave feature. With a bit of practice, the Wave becomes very reliable. I like that the knife doesn't have to be re-positioned once it comes out, in order to get a proper grip on the knife.

 

[morelightnow]

you posted in the wrong place.

Tell me you did not just post that!!



Oh for God's sake.... Listen, if you end up remembering only one thing from my posts several years down the road, let it be the following; You have way the Hell the wrong mindset!

I'm not talking about your religion, I mean your mindset. One of the best ways to tell if a self-defense instructor is "for real" or just a con-man is to listen to what he says. If he only tells you $#^% you want to hear, don't waste your money taking his classes. If he tells you he's going to show you how to defend yourself without hurting your attacker, then he's a f**king con-man! Effectively defending yourself against an attacker, without hurting him.... That's like two gay men trying get each other pregnant. Not gonna happen!

We're talking about someone who is trying to murder you. Do you understand that part? We're talking about someone who doesn't give a damn about you in any way, shape, or form. He doesn't care if you have a family. He doesn't care if you have children. He doesn't care if you're the only one taking care of your elderly mom or dad. He doesn't care that he's about to make your wife a widow. He doesn't care that your children will never see daddy again.

All he cares about is perhaps that nice watch that you're wearing on your wrist. And while it's unlikely that an attacker will have a gun, in Canada, I'm willing to bet there are no restrictions on buying large kitchen cutlery up where you live. Hell, even a small steak knife will do the job. All you need is two pieces of cardboard and some tape for an improvised sheath. And if you're a bit too slow in handing over your nice watch, your attacker will have no problem at all in stabbing you and taking it off your wrist. That's reality! That's what your life is worth to him.

Here's another scenario, you hand over your wallet with your credit cards in it, and he still kills you! Why? If he leaves you alive, first thing you'll do is cancel those cards. If you're dead, he can sell your credit cards for about $200 more on the Blackmarket because it will take several hours before anyone realizes that your cards are being used by someone other than you. That's what your Life is worth to an attacker.... an extra $200.

Yes, sometimes you're just dealing with a mugger. Sometimes, all they want is your money. But if they pull any sort of weapon on you, you still have no clue if they'll use it. Sometimes you have to trust your gut. If it's only about money, give it to him. A good idea is to carry your money in a cheap moneyclip. You get mugged, pull out the clip, tell him that's all the money you have, then toss the clip in one direction while you run screaming like a lunatic in the other. Now; if you're a mugger, what would you do? Go after the screaming lunatic who has no money on him? Or walk over to the nice, quiet, moneyclip that's just laying a few feet away, waiting to be picked up.

The good thing is, you're not a woman. So, you don't have to worry about getting raped. But what if you're out with your wife or girlfriend, or having lunch with your daughter or mom. And two or three attackers come along.... and they're less interested in you.... You really going to care whether or not you hurt them?

Least expensive light that's capable of putting out about 200 lumens out the front is a Fenix T1. The clip is less than great, but it's functional and allows instant access to the light. Surefire will soon be coming out with their new and improved U2 models. The Optimus can produce 200 lumens on high, the Invictus does 400 lumens on high. I will be purchasing an Invictus soon after it comes out.

But like I said earlier, using your light to actually strike an attacker is going to be far more useful than how many lumens it puts out. Based on that, the A2 is a very good choice. It's long enough, the clip allows instant access to the light without fumbling with a holster or trying to dig the light out of the bottom of a pocket.

Don't misinterpret my post. I'm not saying you're stupid. I am saying that your mindset of not hurting an attacker who's trying to murder you, that's stupid. But that can be changed.

 

[Monocrom]

Actually, I didn't.

 

[stitch_paradox]

you posted in the wrong place.

Why may I ask?

 

[morelightnow]

because this thread is titled "flashlights for self-defense", not "self-defense". his post ruined the entire thread for me. i'm glad it helped some but in my opinion is belongs elsewhere. i'm not contributing either so no more comments

 

[cqbdude]

Ironically, your joking post highlights too very important Self-defense concepts.

1 - In this world, there are predators; and they're looking for food. Don't act like "food."

2 - Advanced Awareness & Avoidence techniques can cause a mugger or attacker to choose someone more oblivious to victimize.

Being a Mugger....I would have to agree with Monocrom...:nana:

But all kidding aside....the 2 points above will save your life....Awareness alone will get you out of harms way more often than you think..

 

[270winchester]

I
2 - Advanced Awareness & Avoidence techniques can cause a mugger or attacker to choose someone more oblivious to victimize.

great. as long as you are not the victim, who cares, let the next guy/woman be victimized. That's some fantastic outlook in humanity you have there.
:thumbsdow

remind me to never live next to you as a neighbor.

 

[Timdog68]

great. as long as you are not the victim, who cares, let the next guy/woman be victimized. That's some fantastic outlook in humanity you have there.
:thumbsdow

remind me to never live next to you as a neighbor.

Are you serious?
Are you saying he should NOT try to deter an attack on himself so someone else who is oblivious to his/her surroundings doesnt get attacked instead?
When did he say he wouldnt care if someone else was attacked?
He's trying to give great advice to anyone who will read and make as many people NOT become victims.
And quite frankly his posts may save someones life who thinks a flashlight
is more than a light.

 

[Monocrom]

because this thread is titled "flashlights for self-defense", not "self-defense". his post ruined the entire thread for me. i'm glad it helped some but in my opinion is belongs elsewhere. i'm not contributing either so no more comments

Well, what can I say? Perhaps I should apologize for shattering any fantasies you might have about what it's really like out there. But why listen to someone with training and experience under his belt? Why listen to someone who spends his free time studying something that most people do their best not to think about?

Good news though, there are more than enough con-men in this business who will gladly tell you all the things you want to hear, and they'll let you pay them for that privilage.

I kinda suck at lying to folks, but let me give it a try....

"Any light that puts out at least 60 lumens will cause a violent attacker to run home, crying to his mommy."

"A deranged drug addict who hasn't had his fix can still be reasoned with. After all, it's not as though his addiction is more important to him than anything else in Life."

"Unicorns are real. If you get some Chex party-mix and go to Central Park at Midnight on the third Thursday of every month, you can feed them out of your hand!"

Okay, how am I doing? Hmm.... I think my lying needs some work.

If a dose of reality is something too strong for you to handle, if it genuinely bothers you; there's an easy solution.... Just put me on your Ignore List. That way, my blatantly honest posts will never trouble you again. No more ruined threads! You can go back to pretending that all individuals are basically good people, and that the world is filled with Hugs & Gumdrops.

 

[270winchester]

Are you serious?
Are you saying he should NOT try to deter an attack on himself so someone else who is oblivious to his/her surroundings doesnt get attacked instead?
When did he say he wouldnt care if someone else was attacked?
He's trying to give great advice to anyone who will read and make as many people NOT become victims.
And quite frankly his posts may save someones life who thinks a flashlight
is more than a light.

well, what you are saying is redirecting harm to others, which is a pretty tough thing to live with morally speaking. I guess you have no problem doing it, well, that's who you are. We need to look at our conscience and decide whether we rather rid of the society of evil or merely evading it and hope someone else receives the attack. And seems like the majority of people today are all too happy to not be one of the victims, and feel somehow more "smart" that they didn't get victimized, this time.

the point is, perps will harm someone if the society continues to makes and enforce laws that discourage people from defending themselves. If not you, they may choose to rob and beat an old lady who have even less means of self-preservation. Well, you don't see it so it obviously won't matter to you.

The whole mentality of "I will blend in so someone else gets it" sounds pretty terrible to me. It just encourages the criminals to find weaker and more vulnerable targets to attack.

I think Prime Minister Chamberlain of England was one in that camp.