Flight takedown buy li-on batteries!!!!How can we trust them in our pocket??

NoNotAgain

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Yes I was also talking about FAA 's findings.
Here is one amongs the links about li-on accidents on planes reported by FAA-

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/21/the-secret-far-deep-hunt-for-mh370.html

I'm interested in your statement that a lithium ion batteries in a flashlight caused a fire in a pilots back pack. That's the story I'm interested in.

The MAS MH370 flight disappearance is still an unknown. Without debris and the flight data recorders, it's anyone's guess as to what happened to the aircraft.

I've been to the MAS repair shop. They run or ran a first class operation. One of the better overhaul shops I've worked at.
 

1DaveN

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My understanding is that the flight concerns involve shipping large quantities of batteries, and the possibility of a fire due to problems with packing - presumably the batteries get slamming around in the box and somehow a short gets created. If you ask, most airlines will tell you that lithium batteries are OK carried on, but not in checked baggage, the theory being that your single phone or laptop battery is highly unlikely to cause a fire, and that if it did, in the passenger cabin they could deal with it much more easily than in the baggage compartment. I flew regularly for years before the battery issue came to my attention, so it's obviously not much of a security concern to passenger airlines. If you do a google search, you can find crashes blamed on lithium batteries, but they were all cargo planes carrying large shipments of batteries, not that someone's phone or flashlight battery went crazy.
 

jjp888

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I'm interested in your statement that a lithium ion batteries in a flashlight caused a fire in a pilots back pack. That's the story I'm interested in.

The MAS MH370 flight disappearance is still an unknown. Without debris and the flight data recorders, it's anyone's guess as to what happened to the aircraft.

I've been to the MAS repair shop. They run or ran a first class operation. One of the better overhaul shops I've worked at.


Yes the incident relating to pilots backpack getting fire is noted by the FAA in the link that I posted earlier.It's around the middle of the page.Other minor incidents are also mentioned by FAA in this page.
 

SemiMan

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Lithium ion cells can and do self destruct for no other reason than a manufacturing defect coupled with a physical event. Remember the big Sony recall?

When you are in a plane, it's not like you can just throw a flaming battery out a window or lock it safely away quickly. You are in a closed environment and what anyone will tell you, nothing is worse on a plane than fire, especially one not easily extinguished.

Yes the odds of this happening are rare, but there are also a lot of flights every day. It may be rare for something to happen on any given flight, but to happen on any flight over a year, suddenly the odds do not look too bad.

Passengers: Cannot check Lithium Ion batteries -- cause if they start on fire, there goes the whole baggage compartment. Yes there is fire suppression in baggage, but again not what you want happening. There is also a limit on the size of batteries. As has been noted, they spread from cell to cell. 100wH of batteries can be contained. 1000 perhaps not.

Cargo: Banned for the most part, see above. Fire spreads from battery to battery and if you have a lot of cells together, it only takes one failure.

Life will go on without planes shipping large amounts of LiIon batteries in cargo, hence prudent thing is to stop doing it as it has been proven they can start on fire and the results dangerous.

To the person who equate the dangers of Lead Acid and Alkalines ... Lead Acid are only dangerous during charging or puncturing. They don't randomly go off, and neither do alkalines.
 

more_vampires

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Shipping lead acid (with pack) is ORM-D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D
Material marked "ORM-D" and shipped by surface transportation does not require hazardous shipping papers, simply an ORM-D and proper shipping name marking on the box. This marking can either be in the form of an ORM-D sticker, or written by hand. If written by hand the letters "ORM-D" must be enclosed by a rectangle. When transported by air, ORM-D shipments require an ORM-D-AIR marking and full hazardous shipping papers.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/re...w_requirements.html?srch_pos=3&srch_phr=orm-d
International regulations applicable to air shipments of lithium metal batteries have changed. Compliance with the new regulations becomes mandatory January 1, 2015.

The regulations, published by the International Air Transport Association (IATA), prohibit transport of lithium metal batteries (shipped without equipment) on passenger aircraft.

...so the shippers decided to skip regular ORM-D and just ban them on passenger (but not cargo) aircraft. ORM-D already had maximum quantities and other such refinements.

Cargo: Banned for the most part, see above. Fire spreads from battery to battery and if you have a lot of cells together, it only takes one failure.

:shrug: ..okay. What's the problem? It's already banned, but for passenger aircraft. There's rules for cargo handling of ORM-D, but it isn't banned (yet.)
 
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Phlogiston

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Here's an FAA summary document of incidents involving batteries and battery-powered devices:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...carrier_info/media/battery_incident_chart.pdf

The FedEx cockpit incident jjp888 referred to is on page 8, dated 28th Aug 2010. It turns out that there have been several incidents involving flashlights with lithium batteries, both in the cockpit and the passenger cabin (search the document for "flashlight"). However, those are only a small percentage of the total number of battery-related incidents.
 

NoNotAgain

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The new shipping regulations for lithium batteries and cells is listed here. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...11be0763fecfabd&node=se49.2.173_1185&rgn=div8

This information was just taken from the Code of Federal Regulations dated 18 Feb, 2015.

As long as you follow what is summarized in the chart, you can air ship cells and batteries.

(4) Air transportation. For transportation by aircraft, lithium cells and batteries may not exceed the limits in the following table. The limits on the maximum number of batteries and maximum net quantity of batteries in the following table may not be combined in the same package:

ContentsLithium metal cells and/or batteries with a lithium content not more than 0.3 gLithium metal cells with a lithium content more than 0.3 g but not more than 1 gLithium metal batteries with a lithium content more than 0.3 g but not more than 2 gLithium ion cells and/or batteries with a Watt-hour rating not more than 2.7 WhLithium ion cells with a Watt-hour rating more than 2.7 Wh but not more than
20 Wh
Lithium ion batteries with a Watt-hour rating more than 2.7 Wh but not more than 100 Wh
Maximum number of cells/batteries per packageNo Limit8 cells2 batteriesNo Limit8 cells2 batteries.
Maximum net quantity (mass) per package2.5 kgn/an/a2.5 kgn/an/a.
 

NoNotAgain

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I did find the listing for this event, however there is no further info available. There was an earlier event involving a flashlight with primary lithium batteries that attributed the event to counterfeit batteries.

14-Dec-2006Report from air carrier
Counterfeit CR123A, lithium metal
Flashlight "Superfire WF-501B"
Cargo flight
During a UPS cargo flight from Sydney, Australia to Guangzhou, China, at 38,000 ft., the crew heard a loud bang. A crewmember found that his flashlight in a bag next to his seat was warm and had a strong odor coming from it. The flashlight was opened and there was soot/residue from burning. One of the two batteries (now determined to be counterfeit) was damaged. Earlier the crewmember had dropped the flashlight about 6 inches into his bag and heard a thump.
 

more_vampires

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Lol "Superfire." Knockoff light and counterfeit batteries. Need we say more? :tinfoil:

Can anyone find a story like that with Panasonics?
 

NoNotAgain

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Just google "Panasonic battery recalls". In 2014, Panasonic recalled over 300,000 lithium ion battery packs because of overheating and burn injuries.

Big difference between "battery Packs" than individual cells. Frequently the charging circuit design isn't completely compatible with the laptop system.
 

tandem

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I know there are many flashaholics (including me, Iam a great fan of 18650)who love li-ons for their raw power and runtimes and they ( like me ) are now feeling little nervous when we put them in our edc flashlight and carry them inside our deep pockets.

I'm not feeling nervous at all and you too can achieve inner lithium-ion zen too.

I will admit that when I first started researching lithium-ion cells in flashlights I was a put off by what I found, in some cases. In particular I was dismayed at how many bad products were up for sale, particularly true then for cell chargers.

But then as now there are good products that have earned support from the community through a combination of technical scrutiny and track record.

Avoiding the unknown, and especially avoiding the known bad, or the known hugely-variable, products goes a long way towards li-ion flashlight nirvana.

particularly when we use it in single cell flashlights???.

If you stick with solid proven products, follow safe practices, and​ limit yourself to using single cell lights (at least for now) you are very, very, unlikely to have any problems.
 

more_vampires

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Just google "Panasonic battery recalls". In 2014, Panasonic recalled over 300,000 lithium ion battery packs because of overheating and burn injuries.

...but that sounds like an integration problem and that Panasonic did the right thing once the issue was identified...? Responsible manufacturer of a quality product and the company backs it?

Has anyone ever heard of an Ultrafire/*fire recall... ever?
 

Yamabushi

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Panasonic did the right thing once the issue was identified...? Responsible manufacturer of a quality product and the company backs it?
I agree but my point is that no manufacturer has a 0% defect rate. Panasonic openly admitted that it was an error in the manufacturing process.
 

tandem

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That's why you want to buy lithium ion powered products from reputable makers that will stand behind their products and initiate a recall if necessary.

When was the last time UltraFire | PantsOnFire issued a recall notice?

Never.

Many of the too-cheap brands being flogged on the internet are comprised of seconds or worse. They'd have to recall everything they sell. It's much easier for them to just retire the brand and bring out SuperHouseFire brand the following week.
 

jjp888

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In relation to on-board lithium hazards, many airlines are banning the shippment of bulk quantities of li-on batteries.
I guess this would surely increase the prices of li-on batteries ,(especially those which are imported through air-ways).So I guess it would be a good idea to grab those imported batteries before the prices become so high.:cool:
 
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