hank
Flashlight Enthusiast
"If it's hardware, it's obsolete."
Have you arrived at any conclusions after purchasing the lights you now own, traded,
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Tommygun45
Enlightened
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 438
I agree with much that has been said here. I would say we should make it a sticky and make first timers read it, but that might not be the case. Most of us came to this conclusion only by making mistakes and learning about all of the different kinds of lights out there. I bought dozens and learned what worked for me and what didn't. I was actually kind of shocked the other day at how few lights I had left and how much money I still had in them. I got to a point where I realized what I liked, and I decided to upgrade them. That money went into boring out my lights, getting the best batteries for them and then cerakoting some of them. I still have a few tweaks to go and am hesitant to splurge on a custom. I can't imagine how they could be better for me than my rotary or hcri rotary that is on its way...fingers crossed..patiently waiting..
I went through lots of the foreign lights and just came to the conclusion that American stuff is the best, for me anyways. I had too many problems and issues with foreign stuff that it gave me a sour taste. Any even minor quibbles I've had with American stuff has been resolved by the people who actually make them, usually with a hand written note or an overnighted replacement. I have the best lights I can right now, while being able to afford them, and I would trust my life with just about all of them. To help me in this cause I started a spreadsheet to keep track of what I spend and what I lose/make when I resell what I have. Helps me put it all into perspective when I'm wondering why I don't have enough money to get my girlfriend an engagement ring yet. ;-) I hope she doesn't read this. Anyways, here is how I set it up...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgZjGISOeAX6dEs4bEN5N0l0Q2w4UGh4ZEo1cXdvM2c
If its in black I have it, if its in green I sold it, and if its in red I either lost it (an E1B, still lose sleep over that) or gifted it.
I went through lots of the foreign lights and just came to the conclusion that American stuff is the best, for me anyways. I had too many problems and issues with foreign stuff that it gave me a sour taste. Any even minor quibbles I've had with American stuff has been resolved by the people who actually make them, usually with a hand written note or an overnighted replacement. I have the best lights I can right now, while being able to afford them, and I would trust my life with just about all of them. To help me in this cause I started a spreadsheet to keep track of what I spend and what I lose/make when I resell what I have. Helps me put it all into perspective when I'm wondering why I don't have enough money to get my girlfriend an engagement ring yet. ;-) I hope she doesn't read this. Anyways, here is how I set it up...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgZjGISOeAX6dEs4bEN5N0l0Q2w4UGh4ZEo1cXdvM2c
If its in black I have it, if its in green I sold it, and if its in red I either lost it (an E1B, still lose sleep over that) or gifted it.
flashy bazook
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,139
Great thread! Thanks!
Lessons learned:
1. Buy upgradeable, quality, custom. A standard drop-in setup costs more up front, but will work great and will let you have the latest and greatest over time without guilt.
2. Research your needs, and always know the voltage requirements, lumens, throw/flood combo, runtime. Don't always go for the biggest light, get the biggest light with enough runtime.
3. A light is basically a method to use up your batteries' stored electricity. Plan accordingly, you need to set up your battery system first, get the light second.
3. Stay simple. No programming, 14 modes or whatever. Either 1 mode with the right output/runtime/type of light, or maybe a 2 mode for big throw to see as far as possible plus a lower level with lots of runtime for anything in your own surrounding space.
4. If you really want a strobe, get it in a 2 mode setup (big light output on setting 1, and strobe on setting 2).
5. The biggest mistake to avoid is that you need the one light to rule them all! You don't. You need a light to do a given task. If you really want a very low lumen output, have a tiny light as backup that will give it to you (e.g., 1xAAA).
6. There are accessories out there! You don't need the magic flood/throw master, if you need throw get it and get it in a standardized setup that lets you use a diffuser for those times you also need flood. At the 1" head size, the diffuser weighs almost nothing, and you can leave it on the light to protect the lens, take it out to get that throw you want. Same for colors (there are blue, and red beam filters), and headlamps can be gotten out of your normal flashlight with an appropriate headband.
7. Sometimes it makes sense to stock up, especially custom made components that often are available only every few years. Surefire abandonment of its earlier standards also makes certain Surefire components stockable (bezels, tailcaps, etc.).
8. Do you really need any material other than anodized aluminium? Not really. If you buy titanium and other exotic materials, you are doing it for the bling factor. You should not then count this light as one among your standard rotation lights. (exception: those people who really use their Mcgizmo's).
9. Keep a list of your core lights together with their voltage and other characteristics. Over time this information tends to be lost or at least a pain to track down. Also it keeps you grounded, as you can easily compare the latest and greatest dealer offering against your current and past collection. You will find your decisions improve as a result.
10. Avoid sharing your core collection with other people! In fact managing the interactions of these other people with your flashlights is a major pain! If they borrow them, consider them lost. This in fact is a major reason to have a few cheap lights around, these are what you "lend" (i.e., give) other people.
11. Maybe have a special place (with a lock?!?) for your core light collection.
Lessons learned:
1. Buy upgradeable, quality, custom. A standard drop-in setup costs more up front, but will work great and will let you have the latest and greatest over time without guilt.
2. Research your needs, and always know the voltage requirements, lumens, throw/flood combo, runtime. Don't always go for the biggest light, get the biggest light with enough runtime.
3. A light is basically a method to use up your batteries' stored electricity. Plan accordingly, you need to set up your battery system first, get the light second.
3. Stay simple. No programming, 14 modes or whatever. Either 1 mode with the right output/runtime/type of light, or maybe a 2 mode for big throw to see as far as possible plus a lower level with lots of runtime for anything in your own surrounding space.
4. If you really want a strobe, get it in a 2 mode setup (big light output on setting 1, and strobe on setting 2).
5. The biggest mistake to avoid is that you need the one light to rule them all! You don't. You need a light to do a given task. If you really want a very low lumen output, have a tiny light as backup that will give it to you (e.g., 1xAAA).
6. There are accessories out there! You don't need the magic flood/throw master, if you need throw get it and get it in a standardized setup that lets you use a diffuser for those times you also need flood. At the 1" head size, the diffuser weighs almost nothing, and you can leave it on the light to protect the lens, take it out to get that throw you want. Same for colors (there are blue, and red beam filters), and headlamps can be gotten out of your normal flashlight with an appropriate headband.
7. Sometimes it makes sense to stock up, especially custom made components that often are available only every few years. Surefire abandonment of its earlier standards also makes certain Surefire components stockable (bezels, tailcaps, etc.).
8. Do you really need any material other than anodized aluminium? Not really. If you buy titanium and other exotic materials, you are doing it for the bling factor. You should not then count this light as one among your standard rotation lights. (exception: those people who really use their Mcgizmo's).
9. Keep a list of your core lights together with their voltage and other characteristics. Over time this information tends to be lost or at least a pain to track down. Also it keeps you grounded, as you can easily compare the latest and greatest dealer offering against your current and past collection. You will find your decisions improve as a result.
10. Avoid sharing your core collection with other people! In fact managing the interactions of these other people with your flashlights is a major pain! If they borrow them, consider them lost. This in fact is a major reason to have a few cheap lights around, these are what you "lend" (i.e., give) other people.
11. Maybe have a special place (with a lock?!?) for your core light collection.
T45
Enlightened
+1 Make this thread a STICKY! Excellent overviews and well expressed opinions.
jamesmtl514
Flashlight Enthusiast
It had been a lot of fun since I joined. I started off thinking 100$ was expensive for a light (still is a lot of money) now I have single lights worth MUCH more than that.
part of the fun is getting a bunch of lights and figuring out what you like.
I never liked strobe, yet on my flupic mule, I have it and I use it to pester people.
I also used to believe that brighter is better, it does have its place however, I rather search for something I dropped on the floor in the theater with my mule at 1 lumen than my C3 w/M91!
Titanium is addictive!
It feels so good, ages extremely well. Is beyond rugged. And just had a wonderful look to it.
Buy quality, you never know when you'll need your light, you'll want it to work.
Buy rechargeable batteries, primaries get expensive FAST!
MOST importantly, know your limits, make educated purchases and HAVE FUN.
if you're not having fun in this hobby, you're doing it wrong
part of the fun is getting a bunch of lights and figuring out what you like.
I never liked strobe, yet on my flupic mule, I have it and I use it to pester people.
I also used to believe that brighter is better, it does have its place however, I rather search for something I dropped on the floor in the theater with my mule at 1 lumen than my C3 w/M91!
Titanium is addictive!
It feels so good, ages extremely well. Is beyond rugged. And just had a wonderful look to it.
Buy quality, you never know when you'll need your light, you'll want it to work.
Buy rechargeable batteries, primaries get expensive FAST!
MOST importantly, know your limits, make educated purchases and HAVE FUN.
if you're not having fun in this hobby, you're doing it wrong
angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
Lots of good stuff here...I'll add by reiterating:
-In the world of High Powered lights, low is king. I use the low settings on my L1-Rd/A2-YG/Mil-Spec Kroma more than anything else.
-Runtime is vastly more important than out-put, unless you're running down baddies.
-"I can't afford to buy cheap".
-PK is an industry genius!
-In the world of High Powered lights, low is king. I use the low settings on my L1-Rd/A2-YG/Mil-Spec Kroma more than anything else.
-Runtime is vastly more important than out-put, unless you're running down baddies.
-"I can't afford to buy cheap".
-PK is an industry genius!
Ohhhh, yes! A definite learning situation.
When I started, there was only the "standard" lights...MagLite, Fulton G.I , Bright Star,and the "supermarket" lights, Ray O Vac and Eveready, which, in retrospect, weren't all that bad.
Then, came the MagLIte 3D...useful and bright, but heavy and clumsy. Xenon bulbs were brighter, and seemed to last longer.
Next, came the MiniMag, which was bright...for a little while, and needed batteries and bulbs regularly.
Then I found CPF, and I was lost.
Then came CPF again, after several years' hiatus, and the advances that have been made in lights just blew me
away!
They do stuff that was only dreamed of 6 years ago. I bought two of the newer lights, a MiniMagled, and a Terralux Lightstar 220, with multi modes, which I really like, except the low modes could be lower!
Modding a 3-D is fun, bright, and run time is imporved, but a good drop in module is just as bright, and a lot less hassle.
Little, relatively dimmer lights Like the CMG (Gerber) Infinity Ultra, the Inova X1, or any of the other lights are handy for pocket/camera bag carry, and in all cases of need, "something is better than nothing." A MiniMag or smaller size light with a low mode, and one or two brighter modes will fill most EDC needs nicely.
P.R. based LED modules for the 2 D lights may not be quite as bright as the incand. bulb, but run time is excellent for drawer, camping, or all-round use!
ED modules for MiniMags can be had; about 30 lumens is be great for general chores, and run time is also good.
Tailcap clicky switches are a goodness. I like Kroll or Terralux.
Conclusions: Generally, you get what you pay for. But, there are good lights with reasonable price tags, that will fill most needs very well.
Some of the new features are done for competitive purpses, and have little value in the real world, except for the unusual and severe exception, or law enforcement applications.
3 & 4 D Mags are GOOD lights! But, they are too heavy and awkward for everyday use.
The smaller lights, running on easily obtainable and relatively inexpen$ive batteries will fill most needs very well, and a good elt pouch is nice. A pocket clip and/or lanyard is handy, too.
Bright is good, but, as has been said, run time is most important, IMO.
My next purchases will be; a 3 C form factor light of some flavor, and I will buy a belt carrier...either MagLite 3c with LED drop-in module, the Ray O Vac Sportsman Extreme 3C, or the Streamlight Twin Task 3-C. , for the brightlness levels. And I am scheming how to afford a Streamlight 2L AA., or maybe one of the other 2 AA lights from one of the major manufacturers. Fenix or 4 7s are in the lead now.
When I started, there was only the "standard" lights...MagLite, Fulton G.I , Bright Star,and the "supermarket" lights, Ray O Vac and Eveready, which, in retrospect, weren't all that bad.
Then, came the MagLIte 3D...useful and bright, but heavy and clumsy. Xenon bulbs were brighter, and seemed to last longer.
Next, came the MiniMag, which was bright...for a little while, and needed batteries and bulbs regularly.
Then I found CPF, and I was lost.
Then came CPF again, after several years' hiatus, and the advances that have been made in lights just blew me
away!
They do stuff that was only dreamed of 6 years ago. I bought two of the newer lights, a MiniMagled, and a Terralux Lightstar 220, with multi modes, which I really like, except the low modes could be lower!
Modding a 3-D is fun, bright, and run time is imporved, but a good drop in module is just as bright, and a lot less hassle.
Little, relatively dimmer lights Like the CMG (Gerber) Infinity Ultra, the Inova X1, or any of the other lights are handy for pocket/camera bag carry, and in all cases of need, "something is better than nothing." A MiniMag or smaller size light with a low mode, and one or two brighter modes will fill most EDC needs nicely.
P.R. based LED modules for the 2 D lights may not be quite as bright as the incand. bulb, but run time is excellent for drawer, camping, or all-round use!
ED modules for MiniMags can be had; about 30 lumens is be great for general chores, and run time is also good.
Tailcap clicky switches are a goodness. I like Kroll or Terralux.
Conclusions: Generally, you get what you pay for. But, there are good lights with reasonable price tags, that will fill most needs very well.
Some of the new features are done for competitive purpses, and have little value in the real world, except for the unusual and severe exception, or law enforcement applications.
3 & 4 D Mags are GOOD lights! But, they are too heavy and awkward for everyday use.
The smaller lights, running on easily obtainable and relatively inexpen$ive batteries will fill most needs very well, and a good elt pouch is nice. A pocket clip and/or lanyard is handy, too.
Bright is good, but, as has been said, run time is most important, IMO.
My next purchases will be; a 3 C form factor light of some flavor, and I will buy a belt carrier...either MagLite 3c with LED drop-in module, the Ray O Vac Sportsman Extreme 3C, or the Streamlight Twin Task 3-C. , for the brightlness levels. And I am scheming how to afford a Streamlight 2L AA., or maybe one of the other 2 AA lights from one of the major manufacturers. Fenix or 4 7s are in the lead now.
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Gregozedobe
Enlightened
"Less is more" - most of the time, but when you need a lot of light you do need a lot of light. So I like to have at least one light on hand with a 200+ lumen high if needed.
I use sub 1 lumen more than any other level, and like having just the "right" amount of light for a particular task so multi-level lights tend to be my favourites (but with a UI that allows me to get the level I want quickly - current favourite UIs are Zebralight and Photon Freedom, looking forward to the MBI Torpedo control ring).
I really dislike the "**** green" of some XP-G emitters, I tried and tried but simply couldn't abide the colour, even in outside use. So it was "Hasta la vista, baby" (but the new owner was quite happy with it).
I use sub 1 lumen more than any other level, and like having just the "right" amount of light for a particular task so multi-level lights tend to be my favourites (but with a UI that allows me to get the level I want quickly - current favourite UIs are Zebralight and Photon Freedom, looking forward to the MBI Torpedo control ring).
I really dislike the "**** green" of some XP-G emitters, I tried and tried but simply couldn't abide the colour, even in outside use. So it was "Hasta la vista, baby" (but the new owner was quite happy with it).
Echo63
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have learnt a few things in my time here.
1. Good reliable "beat the c@@p out of it and it keeps ticking" lights are not cheap.
2. I prefer neutral tint LEDs
3. People will always say one of two things when they witness the Maxabeam - "wow that bright" or "WTF is that"
4. A good reliable and slightly more expensive light that works when you need it, is much much better than a handful of cheapest that don't work when you need them.
5. If I was tellin myself how to save money on this hobby I would say "buy a Maxabeam, Aeon, M6 and a V10R (or HDS) and be done with it"
1. Good reliable "beat the c@@p out of it and it keeps ticking" lights are not cheap.
2. I prefer neutral tint LEDs
3. People will always say one of two things when they witness the Maxabeam - "wow that bright" or "WTF is that"
4. A good reliable and slightly more expensive light that works when you need it, is much much better than a handful of cheapest that don't work when you need them.
5. If I was tellin myself how to save money on this hobby I would say "buy a Maxabeam, Aeon, M6 and a V10R (or HDS) and be done with it"
I forgot to mention this one:
Few people are impressed by high output light, unless it is brighter than car headlights and HUGE (like the TK70, TK45 apparently being too small to press the point) or small as a suppository and undeniably brighter than a mini maglite (like an L0D)
Few people are impressed by high output light, unless it is brighter than car headlights and HUGE (like the TK70, TK45 apparently being too small to press the point) or small as a suppository and undeniably brighter than a mini maglite (like an L0D)
Hm... I was kind of wondering why my wife likes her 15 lumen MiniMag the most... I figured it was something along that "yellow incandescent Christmas lights vs. bright LED Xmas light" effect....
JohnnyBravo
Enlightened
It's fun to buy and wait for the latest/newest light etc. But after 35+ lights (most are LED), I agree that only a handful get used regularly. I don't care for the 5 mode ones that have SOS and Strobe. I think H-M-L is fine or maybe H-L only. I prefer forward clickies on the tail (my 2D LED Maglites have FWD clickies near the head). And my favorites are the single cell 14500 or 18650 ones. I only have one twisty, and Olight I1 Eos; I like its super compact size. Floodies are more useful to me in every day use; while I have a few throw daddies. And lastly, I do like a light with tailstanding ability.
correspondent
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2010
- Messages
- 16
I rarely have buyers remorse since it is a passion of mine. but the few times I do have a tinge of regret I assign it a specific duty in my mind to make it 'indispensible' so to speak. 
-Flashlights are addictive.
-Cheap lights are cheap in every respect. That's why they're cheap. That goes for batteries, too.
-Midrange lights offer the most features for the money, almost always at the expense of long-term reliability and build quality.
-Premium lights, specifically talking SF lights/hosts and Malkoff dropins(IME), offer long-term reliability and build quality, almost always at the expense of features.
-All lights have a potential for failure, whether due to materials, circuits, bulbs, LEDs, switches, inadequate waterproofing, etc.
-Better raw materials, quality circuits, properly sinked LEDs, robust switches, tight tolerances, and well placed and integrated o-rings minimize that potential.
-Low to mid-range lights(long for "Chinese"), even from the most popular brands, typically shortcut any to many of the above, and fail given enough time and use.
-Low to midrange lights...a type III ano designation is often wishful thinking, and IPX ratings temporary, if ever true to begin with.
-CRI does not indicate a bulb or emitter's ability to render color.
-Simplicity rules. Instant access to the most often used mode is a great convenience, while too many modes are an aggravation.
-Throw is the most sought after, and useless, performance feature of a general purpose/utility light.
-High output/lumens is the second most sought after, and useless, performance feature of a general purpose/utility light.
-Many people, including myself, tend to purchase lights for imaginary uses(that call for throw and/or high output!), even when it's often the opposite of what we need.
-Being an "early adopter" of a new brand, type of LED, UI, etc. is the shortest path to disappointment...and an empty wallet
-Flashlights are addictive.
-Cheap lights are cheap in every respect. That's why they're cheap. That goes for batteries, too.
-Midrange lights offer the most features for the money, almost always at the expense of long-term reliability and build quality.
-Premium lights, specifically talking SF lights/hosts and Malkoff dropins(IME), offer long-term reliability and build quality, almost always at the expense of features.
-All lights have a potential for failure, whether due to materials, circuits, bulbs, LEDs, switches, inadequate waterproofing, etc.
-Better raw materials, quality circuits, properly sinked LEDs, robust switches, tight tolerances, and well placed and integrated o-rings minimize that potential.
-Low to mid-range lights(long for "Chinese"), even from the most popular brands, typically shortcut any to many of the above, and fail given enough time and use.
-Low to midrange lights...a type III ano designation is often wishful thinking, and IPX ratings temporary, if ever true to begin with.
-CRI does not indicate a bulb or emitter's ability to render color.
-Simplicity rules. Instant access to the most often used mode is a great convenience, while too many modes are an aggravation.
-Throw is the most sought after, and useless, performance feature of a general purpose/utility light.
-High output/lumens is the second most sought after, and useless, performance feature of a general purpose/utility light.
-Many people, including myself, tend to purchase lights for imaginary uses(that call for throw and/or high output!), even when it's often the opposite of what we need.
-Being an "early adopter" of a new brand, type of LED, UI, etc. is the shortest path to disappointment...and an empty wallet
Great list... love it :laughing: :twothumbs :bow:
ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond
Flashlight Enthusiast
+1 Owen - well put.
scout24
Flashaholic
I'll play. Please pardon any previously covered ground. Saving your money and buying quality will save you money in the long run. McGizmo makes the best pocketclips and clicky switches on the planet. Runtime, low output, and flood are under rated. Once in a while, there is an inexpensive gem to be had. Tint is very subjective, and even harder to photograph than Bigfoot. There is no substitute to actually holding a light in your hand, no matter how thorough the review. Titanium is not just for show, but probably the single best material for a daily hard-use light. More if I think of them!
Average Joe
Newly Enlightened
Yeah. Basically, you get what you pay for, most of the time. There may be one or two "good and cheap" lights out there but they're few and far between.
