High Output Thrower Review: M2X - 16wFP - M1X - EL P7 Longthrow

[Ryanrpm]

No....not too much brighter. I'd love to see what the Legion II would look like...........................but that's why we have MrGman to take the readings all in one machine....and he has the L2.

I have some other readings to reveal soon. I'm doing the test twice to verify the readings are legit. Stay tuned...

 

[russthetoolman]

Excellent job.... It's my M2XC4 that Ryan has and I favor the Sunlite 16WFP, to those that don't get one, you're missing out on a great light from a great company. Why is it when Sunlite makes their lights with their LED's, copper heat sinks and match the batteries to their circuits and include a charger, thus providing a turnkey package, people are hesitant, yet when Malkoff makes a BRASS module he is revered, and Deal Extreme lights are crap because they use BRASS for heat sinks, WTH? Brass as a heat sink is an oxymoron, it's for bar railings and table lamps. So your opinions of not wanting a Sunlite have no logical, engineering basis to them, they are engineered correctly.
Here is a picture of a Sunlite Slim that a soldier I met has had in two tours of Iraq and has rebuilt 20 Cummins and Cat diesels with it and this guy has Surefires and Eotech's and Aimpoints and other gun goodies and swears by his Sunlite. He got it from Snap-On when he started as a mechanic. I was amazed at the life it has had and asked to take a picture of it.
I met this soldier on Memorial day and gave a huge thanks for fighting so we may make choices and that I make good ones and as a token of appreciation, I gave him two of my Bobro Engineering VFG's for his AR's.
I thank ALL our soldiers, they are not told enough by us supporting them that they are appreciated. This soldiers name was Michael and his hottest day as a Sniper was 142 degrees!!!! in the shade walking 1000 yds with their gear. If you can do that, great! I can't!! So I support those that can and do!! :twothumbs He also gave testimony that bright flashlights are very useful in combat, they subdue the situation quickly, he also doesn't like a strobe setting, he prefers to click the tailcap, saying 6 times in the face and full bright does the trick fine, so it was interesting to hear real world, combat experience versus us using them as a hobby in peacetime and no stress. If you wanna know more, talk to a Soldier, do it today!!
Russ

 

[Ryanrpm]

Nice find Russ! I see he's still using the 65 lumen head. I agree that those Slims are among the best pen lights available. Streamlight doesn't even come close.....

 

[TAIGERSX]

I was tempted by M1X until I saw the Raptor....
Then I was tempted by Raptor 2....

I wish I had ordered the M1X but for some reasons I picked the raptor because of its small size

 

[TITAN1833]

I'm basing my opinion on what I can see from your pictures,

lets for a moment forget about bounce test and lux readings, purely based on the beam shots I have to disagree ppl :tinfoil: just look at the picture and importantly the base line of the tree and what's surrounds it? IMHO the 16WFP clearly shows up more detail than the others sorry to stomp on your parade but for me the 16WFP is a far better light to use in real life than any that I have seen so far,I wont be getting a M2X,M1X or L2 none of these can offer any more than the 16WFP IMO and will certainly not come close when the 16WFP get it's revamp Ta,Ta :wave:

 

[Ryanrpm]

Similar to what MrGman is doing by posting lumen values at 30/60/120/180 second intervals, to show the drop in lumens due to loss of efficiency caused by heat sag, I've done something similar using a ceiling bounce test.

I ran the tests twice to confirm the results.

Lights: JetBeam M1X, Sunlite 16wFP, EagleTac M2X, ElektroLumens P7 LongThrow.

Light Meter: Extech 403125

Here are the results:

As you can clearly see, Sunlite rises above the rest in terms of heat removal from the LED. EagleTac comes in 2nd. M1X in 3rd. P7 LongThrow is 4th.

Since these measurements rely mainly upon the 100% value, I'll explain how I gathered that initial "Start" number.

With the meter on and in place, and in a totally dark room, I had the stopwatch in hand and the light in the other. I clicked the light 'On' and set it down, then watched the meter numbers rise until they maxed out. I then started the stopwatch. I recorded down the max number for the 'Start" value, then at 30 seconds, I recorded what the meter read, and etc, etc, for the rest of the times.

You can still see that the M2X is reading the highest value for output, and the 16wFP shows to have the best heat removal.

For the record, the P7 LongThrow was using new Duracell primaries. The M2X and M1X were using AW 2200mAh protected 18650's, and the 16wFP was using Sunlites own battery, a protected 5200mAh.


Edit:

I'll also throw in these beam profile shots that I captured during the bounce tests.....

They are about 6ft away from the ceiling.

M1X and P7 LongThrow:

M2X and 16wFP:

 

[Ryanrpm]

I'm basing my opinion on what I can see from your pictures,
look at the picture and importantly the base line of the tree and what's surrounds it?

Hey, I just noticed that if you look at the 16w tree shot, it is the only one that will show the dual power line poles to the right of the tree.

Interesting...

And BTW everyone, this thread is not meant to be a Sunlite boasting/promoting thread, but merely meant to show comparisons of these great high output throwers. However, through the results, certain lights will shine brighter in differing ways. (Pun most certainly intended!) For example...what are the strengths of each of these lights as I see them?

16wFP: Color rendition, super bright corona, and excellent heat removal.

M1X: Excellent craftsmanship, great UI, nice Form Factor.

M2X: Ingenious optics, very high output, one of a kind design.

P7 LongThrow: Totally unique, Adjustable beam, built like a tank.

I'm confident that all of those positives came out so far in this thread for each of the lights.

 

[TITAN1833]

Hey, I just noticed that if you look at the 16w tree shot, it is the only one that will show the dual power line poles to the right of the tree.

Interesting...

Yes and also note the smaller objects just right of the tree at base line :twothumbs





[edit]Hence why I said IMO the 16WFP is the better light as is.

 

[Glenn7]

I wish I had ordered the M1X but for some reasons I picked the raptor because of its small size

dont worry - the raptor still throws further than the M1X - it might have a smaller spot but it does throw further - i have experience with both :wave:

 

[easilyled]

Well it certainly looks as if the Sunlite 16W is a fantastic light from all the measurements you have provided. Especially in maintaining output.

I'll have to jump on the 4A version when it comes out.

The only thing I have against the Sunlite is that the appearance doesn't look as cool as that of some of the others IMO.
(I particularly like the JB in this regard)

 

[DM51]

Very useful comparison thread - good work!

 

[TITAN1833]

The only thing I have against the Sunlite is that the appearance doesn't look as cool as that of some of the others IMO.
(I particularly like the JB in this regard)

This is true however I have a shed load of tools that don't look pretty but! hey! they do the job and do it well,
and often if a light looks too pretty you may not use it as a tool in fear of scratching it's beauty, thus it ends up a shelf queen


That said your right and that may put people off,my advice is don't be put off on looks alone but! look at the whole picture :twothumbs

 

[Ryanrpm]

Very useful comparison thread - good work!

Thanks DM51. I regret the Legion II was not included, since it is considered by many to have high throw as well.

As I said before, once the 4a driver/battery is released for the 16wFP, I'll be posting more beamshots and bounce/runtime tests. Boy, that would be a good test of their heatsinking huh? Trying to cool off an emitter where 4a of current is going through it. :sweat:

Personally, I'd like to see HKJ or selfbuilt get a hold of one to add to the nice collection they've got going.....

 

[Chade]

Nice review

Does anyone have any idea how a Dereelight dbs MC-E would compare to these lights in terms of throw?

Thanks

 

[Ryanrpm]

No comparison.

These lights in this review are particularly designed to achieve maximum throw out of a quad emitter............or in the case of the M2X, by merging 3 single dies into one.

The DBS has earned a reputation for being a long thrower using it's single die with SMO reflector. The MC-E addition to the DBS doesn't hold up to the main dedicated quad emitter throwers. Reasons are the reflector diameter, reflector design, and driving amperage.

I'd be curious what offerings Dereelight has up their sleeve to compete in this new category though............

The DBS MC-E is more comparable to the ACE, M30, TK40, RX-1 MC-E, M2, etc.....

 

[MrGman]

"As you can clearly see, Sunlite rises above the rest in terms of heat removal from the LED. EagleTac comes in 2nd. M1X in 3rd. P7 LongThrow is 4th.

Since these measurements rely mainly upon the 100% value, I'll explain how I gathered that initial "Start" number.

With the meter on and in place, and in a totally dark room, I had the stopwatch in hand and the light in the other. I clicked the light 'On' and set it down, then watched the meter numbers rise until they maxed out. I then started the stopwatch. I recorded down the max number for the 'Start" value, then at 30 seconds, I recorded what the meter read, and etc, etc, for the rest of the times.

You can still see that the M2X is reading the highest value for output, and the 16wFP shows to have the best heat removal.

For the record, the P7 LongThrow was using new Duracell primaries. The M2X and M1X were using AW 2200mAh protected 18650's, and the 16wFP was using Sunlites own battery, a protected 5200mAh."

I have to question the readings going up as you set the light into position and wait and then start going back down. Every light that I have tested where its in an "at rest" position prior to turn on is at its absolute peak at turn on and drops from there. Since I have a sphere and the light is sitting at the opening of it on a fixed rest, I don't have to turn it on and then place it into position that takes time. I don't see that any light actually gets brighter with on time in that first 30 seconds.

I have noticed some lights having a substantial dip and then recovering and I know that is because of the batteries warming up not the light at all. Having looked at a lot of other peoples run time tests we can see some batteries have that dreaded drop and recovery. Especially non rechargeable primary types.

So I would say your start point for your 100% value is somewhat skewed.

Not trying to be critical, just scientifically objective. So if it were possible to set you light into a fixture that will hold it still in the position you want it to be, then turn it on and capture that first reading and go from there that would be interesting to see the difference.

I see the meter you are using and I checked the specs on it. It says it has both cosine correction and photopic (color) response correction. At face value it looks like a good meter choice. It would be interesting to see if it truly does have photopic correction. Since I found out that one of my meters that I bought said it did but did not I have come up with a really easy test. Partial thanks for that goes to Silverfox and all the work he did in testing various light meters. I have low power green/blue/near UV lights. I measured them all in the meter individually and see if the near UV light is brighter than the blue or green. The near UV light was measured to be 404nM wavelength. Its spectrum spread into the UV range. that was done on a spectral radiometer at work. On the one meter that I later sent back it read higher than the green LED. According to the photopic curve response that should not have been possible. The replacement meter and the other meter, both of a higher cost and next model step up, indicated the near UV light to just barely register on the meter whereas the Green LED was about 25X higher in the readings. You may have already done something similar but if you can get yourself a low budget set of green and blue LED keychain lights and a low power near UV light source and do the same test that would help you to know if you have a true photopic corrected light source. The reason that is important is that it won't give false high readings of lights of shorter wavelength. Silicon chip sensors will read UV light much better than the longer wavelengths into the green and red end of the spectrum. That means the blue from the LED source would read higher than it should in a "white light" LED.

The whole reason for this is that you could then get yourself an 18" polystyrene sphere and then take far more accurate comparison readings instead of doing ceiling bounce tests for the price of the sphere ($40). If that meter is as good as it looks it would be a simple job. Then you can compare the instantaneous turn on readings to the warming up readings far more accurately and get a true sense of what the LED is doing as it warms up.

I have put lights in the freezer for up to 5 minutes or so and then took them out and tested them to see how they behave and its been quite interesting.

Other than this one question of the "peak" readings, good review and great pics. G.

 

[Ryanrpm]

Hey, thanks for your observations MrGman. This light meter I used actually takes a few seconds to go from 0 to 50 lux. It won't jump there right away. So once I pressed the clicky, it was already pointed at the ceiling, and I dropped it tail down into a vase. My eyes were on the meter the whole time so I could see the rise in numbers, and then I caught the highest number before it started dropping back down. All this happened in the first 2-3 seconds.....which in the whole sceme of things is not very long when I was doing a 10 minute test.

Maybe I could go back and redo the calculations with the 30 second value as my 'Start' brightness? I would prefer not though...and I think I was pretty accurate as it is in the sheet above. Remember, I did this test twice to confirm the results....and the numbers were very similar each time.

And everyone, take it as is........it is only another way to view how well a light is able to remove heat from the emitters. Personnaly, I prefer to have all these tests done by MrGman so we have a single standard of comparison.

In the next month or so I'll be sending him my 8w and (4A) 16w to get accurate lumen values. Sunlite has already given lumen values per their IS, but since all our other readings are from MrG, sending him the lights makes sense as a viable comparison with each other.

 

[jzmtl]

Why is it when Sunlite makes their lights with their LED's, copper heat sinks and match the batteries to their circuits and include a charger, thus providing a turnkey package, people are hesitant,

That's exactly why I don't like it. I avoid proprietary battery pack, or plug in rechargeable lights if I can help it. Unnecessary complication of light and battery, relying on charging source, and expensive extra battery that can't be used with any other light.

Plus it's too long, this goes for any end to end 2x18650 lights.

 

[MrGman]

Hey, thanks for your observations MrGman. This light meter I used actually takes a few seconds to go from 0 to 50 lux. It won't jump there right away. So once I pressed the clicky, it was already pointed at the ceiling, and I dropped it tail down into a vase. My eyes were on the meter the whole time so I could see the rise in numbers, and then I caught the highest number before it started dropping back down. All this happened in the first 2-3 seconds.....which in the whole sceme of things is not very long when I was doing a 10 minute test.

Maybe I could go back and redo the calculations with the 30 second value as my 'Start' brightness? I would prefer not though...and I think I was pretty accurate as it is in the sheet above. Remember, I did this test twice to confirm the results....and the numbers were very similar each time.

And everyone, take it as is........it is only another way to view how well a light is able to remove heat from the emitters. Personnaly, I prefer to have all these tests done by MrGman so we have a single standard of comparison.

In the next month or so I'll be sending him my 8w and (4A) 16w to get accurate lumen values. Sunlite has already given lumen values per their IS, but since all our other readings are from MrG, sending him the lights makes sense as a viable comparison with each other.

This is good to know and yes we will get some good correlation data when I test them but I am still curious as to the make and model of your meter. I am on a rant about all these cheap meters that don't provide consistent results and those that may claim photopic curve correction but don't really have it. G.

 

[Ryanrpm]

That's exactly why I don't like it. I avoid proprietary battery pack, or plug in rechargeable lights if I can help it. Unnecessary complication of light and battery, relying on charging source, and expensive extra battery that can't be used with any other light.

I agree that it's not very popular....but I don't get the impression that flashaholics like us are their main customer base. Mechanics and LEO's around the world are....and Sunlite products are tailored more to suit those occupational needs. We just get to reap the cool technological benefits that this company has that others don't...but it comes at a sacrifice to branch out and truly embrace what they have to offer.

As a side note, I'm finding out if they may decide to make lights that do use standard CR123's and 18650's, since the do listen to their customers requests. Don't hold your breath though. Keep in mind that one huge benefit Sunlite has is their ability to interchange heads while keeping the same power source...and those power sources are already in mass among prior customers. I guess they could develop a body only that can use 18650's......:thinking:

Plus it's too long, this goes for any end to end 2x18650 lights.

"Too long" is subjective to the user.... The shortest end to end 2x18650 is the M30 Triton at 211m which is 17mm less than the long body 16wFP. But, like these others, there is a shorter alternative to the light by using the short body with 16w head.

So jzmtl...I'm curious as to your lights of preference now that I've heard some of your choosing criteria...?