How Do You Balance Lumens verses Battery Life and Still Keep it Under $20?

[joelbnyc]

I wonder about those trustfire and ultrafire cheap lights. I wouldn't buy one except as a curiosity, def wouldn't depend on one for emergencies.

I like the L3 Illumination L10 Black Cree XPG2, great light for $20, works fine on eneloops. 120 lm max.

 

[mesa232323]

I own the L3 Illuminations L10 high CRI and the mini maglite pro. Both take NIMH battery's. Both are great lights. Both will last under water for a few hours. The mag is 24.00 at the home Depot. Mag will have more runtime, the L10 will be more EDC.

 

[TEEJ]

Come-on TEEJ... what's your recommendation?

He's asking for AA/AAA format lights for emergencies, and none of those are going to have the kind of run time you typically want for emergencies unless they are dim, but he wants them bright, and he wants them durable, and he wants them under $20.

If he is willing to accept less than he specified, a recommendation might be possible, but, a long running bright AA that is durable and under $20 is not that available yet.

My recommendation would be to lower expectations, or raise the budget, and/or consider other power sources/form factors.



Plan B is to do what everyone else is sating to do: say that some dim teeny spot of light is "bright" and appropriate for emergencies, that a AA battery lasts a long time, etc. IE: Lower expectations until they are met.



For example, 5 fauxtons would about do it....just say they're bright enough, last long enough, and are durable enough, and call it a day.

 

[Poppy]

How about a few
Solarforce L2M XML-U2 for $25
The L2M body is a two part body tube that takes 1 or 2 CR123s or 1 18650.
For starters pick up a ten pack of CR123 batteries. They'll have a long shelf life, and can store reasonably well in the glove compartment.
Later you can pick up a charger and some 18650 batteries, and have lights that will throw more light for longer times.

 

[rojos]

Maglites aren't bad. It's just that you can get much better stuff for not that much more money. Also, some of the ANSI run times that they list are really misleading. The useful run time of a LED Mini Mag AA is closer to 3 hours. It gets pretty dim after that.

Thrunites, in general, aren't the most reliable, so I would not recommend for emergency use. I wouldn't recommend the L3 L10 either. A light that relies on the elasticity of a foam spacer to prevent activation probably is not the best choice for something that might be kept in a car or might go unattended for a long time.

Why not spend a couple more dollars and get some newer version Fenix E11's. The E11 has a clicky, but you can twist and lock out the head to prevent any accidental activation. And you're not going to find anything that is built better or is more durable in your price range.

Also, Fenix lights generally have some of the best efficiency around. Few others in your price range will come close to the E11's efficiency, especially on the lower mode(s).

 

[LEDninja]

Then there are batteries, which are Sanyo Eneloop Ni-MH rechargable AA/AAA, chargers and C adapters, feel good about this decision.

from
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ling-LSD-AAs&p=4207608&viewfull=1#post4207608

The newest Duracell LSD ones, ie "staycharged" also have a white top and are made in Japan, and as Norm points out the most recent also have the "duralock" band. There is also the much older stock (so called Duraloops) which were also made in Japan and had the white top which were very popular. If you are looking for the most recent version (supposedly upgraded chemicals, buzzwords et al), then look for at least the "staycharged" indicator but preferably with the addition of the duralock band.

The made in Japan Duracell are Eneloops with a Duracell wrapper.
The black top made in China ones are not as good. They will discharge to 60% in a year while the white top made in Japan ones only drop to 80%.
Note that in a car glove box exposed to extreme heat and cold all batteries will self discharge faster. The batteries in your car need to be charged up more often even if not used.
The white top/black top refers to the colour between the button and the wrapper, but to be sure read the package and look for the 'made in Japan'.

Car 2AA is probably the best size. (Maglite 2AA Mini Mag Pro+ $28.99, 2 modes 245 and 60 lumens.)
Indoors you need minimum 30 lumens. (Fenix will go 30-5-90 lumens while 4sevens are 5-30-90 for an AAA or AA light.) Check the order of the brightness settings.
Your EDC should be 1*AAA for keychain or 1*AA for loose pocket carry. I do both so I have a backup when the battery in my primary EDC dies. (You now have 2 backups to the one in your car.)
For toolbox etc you need to decide if 2AA (easier to find, 1.5X battery life at max brightness) or 1AA (easier to carry) suits the application better.

Most higher end (compared to the $1 Energizer) flashlights are multi-mode so it it up to you to balance the brightness against the runtime.

C adapters,

C adapters? There are very few C flashlights today. Do you already have a C flashlight? If so what?

 

[Poppy]

from

Car 2AA is probably the best size.

Curious... Why do you think 2AA is better than CR123?

 

[BobDeLaLuz]

In 2008 I decided to perform an experiment that essentially addresses your question.
My family and friends constantly bugged me to find them flashlights that were as bright as my EDC but affordable (my least expensive EDC was $60 at that time) to them, which meant under $20.
What I found was a Romisen RC-N3 CREE Q5 LED Flashlight (Cree XR-E if i remember correctly), which I purchased several and scattered them about the house and wherever I needed a spare flashlight. Since it came with a rather good LED, my only concern was build quality, reliability and long term life. Five years later, these light are still working well, like new. That particular model is no longer made and I have purchased several other different models, as gifts to non-critical users, and every one has worked perfectly. Not one failure in any of them. They are in our cars which are beat on relentlessly by the brutal sunshine here, and I've never experienced a problem (I only leave lithium batteries in the car). Romisen are available in AA or CR123 models (the reason I chose the Romisen RC-N3 CREE Q5 LED Flashlight model is because it came with an extension tube that allowed use of either AA or CR123, which I like because I stock my cars with CR123, for their very long shelf life, but in case of an extended disaster I wanted the flexibility of taking AA in a pinch.
$20 is a very small budget today and I just can't think of any other light that will put out sufficient light to work on an engine on a dark, rainy light. I have a drawer full of MagLights, both incandescent and LED, none of which ever get used because I just can't see well in a dark engine compartment. Most Romisens are under still $20.

Here is where I buy mine at:
Link removed as per the banner at the top of the page - Norm

 

[whiteoakjoe]

If you bump up your price to $35 each the AA powered Fenix E11 and E21 and would be good options, in a reasonable price range. Run them on Energizer lithiums or Eneloops and your set for long shelf life. I own both of these and although they don't compete with $100 lights they are suprisingly good lights for the money. The Olite i series i1 and i2 are another favorite of mine at a great price $25-35 and the i1 gets you in to 123a lithium powered lights cheep.

I also agree that the AA is better vehicle light, only because every convencience store or gas station has some AA on the shelf as you travel. But an Nitecore I2 in the car to charge eneloops and 16340 or 18650's in the car, is the best option.

 

[LEDninja]

I like LED's if they would just be more like incans.

shiningbeam has some AA lights with neutral tint:
Romisen RC-G2 III NW Neutral White XP-G R5 Flashlight "Black" (1xAA) $16.75
Romisen RC-29 II NW Cree XP-G R5 Neutral White Flood-to-Throw LED Flashlight Price: $17.75
ShiningBeam I-mini XP-G Neutral White Tactical LED Flashlight 245 Lumens $30.75

batteryjunction has some high CRI lights:
Terralux Lightstar TruColor High CRI 185 Lumen Uses 2 x AA $39.99
TerraLUX LightStar 80 - High CRI LED FLashlight - 80 Lumens - Includes 2 x AAA Batteries $19.99

 

[reppans]

Curious... Why do you think 2AA is better than CR123?

I find broad voltage (0.9-4.2v) 1xAAs the most versatile, and of course, having a spare 2xAA tube for a light like the Quark is nice....

14500s > 16340s; 3V CRAA/14505s = CR123s; 1.2-1.7V NiMh/Alk/Li L91 cheap/safe/widely available...; AAAs and 9V (6xAAAAs) can be used in a pinch with spacers. Course, having the ability to cannibalize to/from other EDC devices you may be carrying helps too.

 

[nargalzius]

Its a little like the old saw about "You can get it fast, cheap and high quality....just pick any two"

Just to add some humor on the topic, that saying is probably the most non-applicable thing in this forum.

HDSs certainly aren't made fast, and they are high quality... they're still $200 LOL

On a more serious note, the more appropriate saying (and simpler one) is "you get what you pay for"

 

[Poppy]

I find broad voltage (0.9-4.2v) 1xAAs the most versatile, and of course, having a spare 2xAA tube for a light like the Quark is nice....

14500s > 16340s; 3V CRAA/14505s = CR123s; 1.2-1.7V NiMh/Alk/Li L91 cheap/safe/widely available...; AAAs and 9V (6xAAAAs) can be used in a pinch with spacers. Course, having the ability to cannibalize to/from other EDC devices you may be carrying helps too.

reppans,
I appreciate all the effort that you put into your reply. I didn't know that they made Lithium primaries that are essentially equivelent to primary CR123s. Its my understanding that primary lithiums are the best for "in the car use".
A standard alkaline AA light is underpowered compared to a CR123 light, but I guess that an emitter that you can feed a CRAA/14505 would do as well.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[scsmith]

A teeny spot of light with high cd is typically less useful than a large spot of light with the same cd. So, if you wanted it JUST fro blinding people at close range, sure, either works, but th eOP said that's the one thing he DIDN'T need it to do.

Mags have a spot to flood rotary focus head, but you're choosing to ignore that.

So, sure, you CAN get to the same destination in a Ford Model T as in a Ford Taurus, etc, but, the Taurus will do it better...be more reliable, more comfortable, faster, etc. So, if you are used to Model T's, sure, your baseline is set at the Model T's level of performance...that doesn't mean that every one else would feel that a Model T is a better choice than a current offering.


Even if I cut my teeth on Model T's (My Dad's first car actually), it doesn't make me comfortable recommending them over more modern offerings.

Cars are a poor comparison to flashlights. The modern flashlight has changed little in form since the early 1900s. It's still a metal tube that holds batteries; and houses a switch, bulb, reflector, and lens. The batteries have gotten better, the lenses clearer and more resilient, the reflectors more efficient, the metal tubes stronger, and the bulbs replaced by LEDs with an IC for greater efficiency. The format is still the same.

The current Mag Lites are made from modern high grade aluminum (probably a higher grade than most of the Chinese lights recommended here), have transitioned from hot wire bulbs to LEDs with ICs, and the reflectors have been recalibrated for those LEDs. Mag is still using cheap plastic lenses, but they're easy and inexpensive to upgrade if that's actually needed by the end user. Mag has opted for ICs that provide longer run time over higher output. The improved batteries are still available in the same sizes, and same voltages - they just run longer, run in more extreme temperatures, and hold up to rougher handling.

Semi-auto pistols are a much better comparison than cars. Little has changed with the modern centerfire semi-auto pistol since 1910, or maybe 1935 if you want to stretch it. With few exceptions, they still use a cammed tilting barrel to lock the breech, just as John M. Browning designed it in the early 1900s. They still use a mechanical trigger to actuate a hammer or striker. They're still fed by a detachable box magazine hosed in the grip. Two of the three most common cartridges (the .45 ACP and 9mm Luger) still have the same pressure limits and dimensions as they did when they entered service in the early 1900s. Metal alloys and heat treatment have vastly improved, allowing for thinner, lighter pistols that still handle the same pressures (and greater recoil forces) while being more durable. Cartridge primers have improved, providing more reliable ignition. Propellants (aka smokeless gun powders) have improved, resulting in higher velocities at the same pressures with less muzzle flash. The bullets themselves are better designed, and better manufactured; resulting in greater accuracy and improved terminal performance.

See the parallels?

 

[Cereal_Killer]

I wouldn't recommend the L3 L10 either. A light that relies on the elasticity of a foam spacer to prevent activation probably is not the best choice for something that might be kept in a car or might go unattended for a long time.

Could you explain how it "relies on the foam spacer to prevent activation"?

Do the batteries magically get longer as the foam degrades? The foam serves 2 purposes-it prevents contact in the event you put the battery in backwards and it stops the battery from rattling.

Even without the foam the light won't come on till you tighten it down all the way, when loose there is no physical way for the battery to make contact with the + on the head and the - on the bottom of the body at the same time. the spacer has nothing to do with preventing accidental activation.

I have beat the snot out of mine and it works every time. Dropped it from well over a meter, its landed on the head, the tail, on its side, they take some serious abuse. It's also waterproof. I have used mine so much 1/2 of the ano is wore off. I would put money on it being a seriously reliable little light. It's at least as durable as the old 2xAA mini-mags and the light output is over 20 times more (100+Lm vs incan minimag's 5lm) Even today 97% of people (not people here, the general public) believe maglight is the best, brightest and most reliable light out there, the little L10 is not only brighter than the minimag, at around 120lm (for the G2) its brighter than the 3,4 even 5D cell incandescent maglights, a fraction of the weight and size and there's no filament to burn out.

 

[rojos]

I have used mine so much 1/2 of the ano is wore off.

1/2 the ano has worn off in 6 months? I've been carrying a Fenix on my keychain for years, it gets beat to hell all the time, and the ano still looks relatively new.

 

[Rosoku Chikara]

In 2008 I decided to perform an experiment that essentially addresses your question.
My family and friends constantly bugged me to find them flashlights that were as bright as my EDC but affordable (my least expensive EDC was $60 at that time) to them, which meant under $20.
What I found was a Romisen RC-N3 CREE Q5 LED Flashlight (Cree XR-E if i remember correctly), which I purchased several and scattered them about the house and wherever I needed a spare flashlight. Since it came with a rather good LED, my only concern was build quality, reliability and long term life. Five years later, these light are still working well, like new. That particular model is no longer made and I have purchased several other different models, as gifts to non-critical users, and every one has worked perfectly. Not one failure in any of them. They are in our cars which are beat on relentlessly by the brutal sunshine here, and I've never experienced a problem (I only leave lithium batteries in the car). Romisen are available in AA or CR123 models (the reason I chose the Romisen RC-N3 CREE Q5 LED Flashlight model is because it came with an extension tube that allowed use of either AA or CR123, which I like because I stock my cars with CR123, for their very long shelf life, but in case of an extended disaster I wanted the flexibility of taking AA in a pinch.
$20 is a very small budget today and I just can't think of any other light that will put out sufficient light to work on an engine on a dark, rainy light. I have a drawer full of MagLights, both incandescent and LED, none of which ever get used because I just can't see well in a dark engine compartment. Most Romisens are under still $20.

I got curious about the light you mentioned, and just did a search which came up with:

Romisen Cree RC-N3 3-Mode LED Flashlight (1xCR123A/2xAA) Price: US$ 16.99

Seems like it may be the very light you mentioned. Photos show that it comes with the extension tube you mentioned.